You are not logged in.
Pages: 1
After a fresh install i get a error when first boot in graphical interface.
I repeated the install process about 4 times to make sure I didn't miss anything.
I installed the base system then nvidia, gnome DE.
Then after restart before loading GDM I get an error mesage saying that something went wrong and if i want to log out and try again.
The last lines of the Xorg.0.log are:
[ 23.509]
X.Org X Server 1.17.2
Release Date: 2015-06-16
[ 23.509] X Protocol Version 11, Revision 0
[ 23.509] Build Operating System: Linux 4.0.4-2-ARCH x86_64
[ 23.509] Current Operating System: Linux localhost 4.1.6-1-ARCH #1 SMP PREEMPT Mon Aug 17 08:52:28 CEST 2015 x86_64
[ 23.509] Kernel command line: BOOT_IMAGE=/boot/vmlinuz-linux root=/dev/sda3
[ 23.509] Build Date: 17 July 2015 05:38:19PM
[ 23.509]
[ 23.509] Current version of pixman: 0.32.6
[ 23.509] Before reporting problems, check http://wiki.x.org
to make sure that you have the latest version.
[ 23.509] Markers: (--) probed, (**) from config file, (==) default setting,
(++) from command line, (!!) notice, (II) informational,
(WW) warning, (EE) error, (NI) not implemented, (??) unknown.
[ 23.509] (==) Log file: "/var/log/Xorg.0.log", Time: Wed Aug 26 19:05:34 2015
[ 23.509] (==) Using system config directory "/usr/share/X11/xorg.conf.d"
[ 23.510] (==) No Layout section. Using the first Screen section.
[ 23.510] (==) No screen section available. Using defaults.
[ 23.510] (**) |-->Screen "Default Screen Section" (0)
[ 23.510] (**) | |-->Monitor "<default monitor>"
[ 23.510] (==) No monitor specified for screen "Default Screen Section".
Using a default monitor configuration.
[ 23.510] (==) Automatically adding devices
[ 23.510] (==) Automatically enabling devices
[ 23.510] (==) Automatically adding GPU devices
[ 23.510] (WW) The directory "/usr/share/fonts/Type1/" does not exist.
[ 23.510] Entry deleted from font path.
[ 23.510] (WW) `fonts.dir' not found (or not valid) in "/usr/share/fonts/100dpi/".
[ 23.510] Entry deleted from font path.
[ 23.510] (Run 'mkfontdir' on "/usr/share/fonts/100dpi/").
[ 23.510] (WW) `fonts.dir' not found (or not valid) in "/usr/share/fonts/75dpi/".
[ 23.510] Entry deleted from font path.
[ 23.510] (Run 'mkfontdir' on "/usr/share/fonts/75dpi/").
[ 23.510] (==) FontPath set to:
/usr/share/fonts/misc/,
/usr/share/fonts/TTF/,
/usr/share/fonts/OTF/
[ 23.510] (==) ModulePath set to "/usr/lib/xorg/modules"
[ 23.510] (II) The server relies on udev to provide the list of input devices.
If no devices become available, reconfigure udev or disable AutoAddDevices.
[ 23.510] (II) Loader magic: 0x817d60
[ 23.510] (II) Module ABI versions:
[ 23.510] X.Org ANSI C Emulation: 0.4
[ 23.510] X.Org Video Driver: 19.0
[ 23.510] X.Org XInput driver : 21.1
[ 23.510] X.Org Server Extension : 9.0
[ 23.511] (II) systemd-logind: took control of session /org/freedesktop/login1/session/c5
[ 23.511] (II) xfree86: Adding drm device (/dev/dri/card0)
[ 23.511] (II) systemd-logind: got fd for /dev/dri/card0 226:0 fd 9 paused 0
[ 23.512] (--) PCI:*(0:1:0:0) 10de:0fc8:10b0:0fc8 rev 161, Mem @ 0xf6000000/16777216, 0xe0000000/268435456, 0xf0000000/33554432, I/O @ 0x0000e000/128, BIOS @ 0x????????/524288
[ 23.512] (WW) Open ACPI failed (/var/run/acpid.socket) (No such file or directory)
[ 23.512] (II) LoadModule: "glx"
[ 23.512] (II) Loading /usr/lib/xorg/modules/extensions/libglx.so
[ 23.518] (II) Module glx: vendor="NVIDIA Corporation"
[ 23.518] compiled for 4.0.2, module version = 1.0.0
[ 23.518] Module class: X.Org Server Extension
[ 23.518] (II) NVIDIA GLX Module 352.30 Tue Jul 21 18:22:32 PDT 2015
[ 23.518] (II) Applying OutputClass "nvidia" to /dev/dri/card0
[ 23.518] loading driver: nvidia
[ 23.518] (==) Matched nvidia as autoconfigured driver 0
[ 23.518] (==) Matched nouveau as autoconfigured driver 1
[ 23.518] (==) Matched nv as autoconfigured driver 2
[ 23.518] (==) Matched nouveau as autoconfigured driver 3
[ 23.518] (==) Matched nv as autoconfigured driver 4
[ 23.518] (==) Matched modesetting as autoconfigured driver 5
[ 23.518] (==) Matched fbdev as autoconfigured driver 6
[ 23.518] (==) Matched vesa as autoconfigured driver 7
[ 23.518] (==) Assigned the driver to the xf86ConfigLayout
[ 23.518] (II) LoadModule: "nvidia"
[ 23.518] (II) Loading /usr/lib/xorg/modules/drivers/nvidia_drv.so
[ 23.518] (II) Module nvidia: vendor="NVIDIA Corporation"
[ 23.518] compiled for 4.0.2, module version = 1.0.0
[ 23.518] Module class: X.Org Video Driver
[ 23.518] (II) LoadModule: "nouveau"
[ 23.518] (WW) Warning, couldn't open module nouveau
[ 23.518] (II) UnloadModule: "nouveau"
[ 23.518] (II) Unloading nouveau
[ 23.518] (EE) Failed to load module "nouveau" (module does not exist, 0)
[ 23.518] (II) LoadModule: "nv"
[ 23.518] (WW) Warning, couldn't open module nv
[ 23.518] (II) UnloadModule: "nv"
[ 23.518] (II) Unloading nv
[ 23.518] (EE) Failed to load module "nv" (module does not exist, 0)
[ 23.518] (II) LoadModule: "modesetting"
[ 23.518] (II) Loading /usr/lib/xorg/modules/drivers/modesetting_drv.so
[ 23.518] (II) Module modesetting: vendor="X.Org Foundation"
[ 23.518] compiled for 1.17.2, module version = 1.17.2
[ 23.518] Module class: X.Org Video Driver
[ 23.518] ABI class: X.Org Video Driver, version 19.0
[ 23.518] (II) LoadModule: "fbdev"
[ 23.518] (WW) Warning, couldn't open module fbdev
[ 23.518] (II) UnloadModule: "fbdev"
[ 23.518] (II) Unloading fbdev
[ 23.518] (EE) Failed to load module "fbdev" (module does not exist, 0)
[ 23.518] (II) LoadModule: "vesa"
[ 23.518] (WW) Warning, couldn't open module vesa
[ 23.518] (II) UnloadModule: "vesa"
[ 23.518] (II) Unloading vesa
[ 23.518] (EE) Failed to load module "vesa" (module does not exist, 0)
[ 23.518] (II) NVIDIA dlloader X Driver 352.30 Tue Jul 21 18:01:20 PDT 2015
[ 23.518] (II) NVIDIA Unified Driver for all Supported NVIDIA GPUs
[ 23.518] (II) modesetting: Driver for Modesetting Kernel Drivers: kms
[ 23.518] (++) using VT number 1
[ 23.518] (II) Loading sub module "fb"
[ 23.518] (II) LoadModule: "fb"
[ 23.518] (II) Loading /usr/lib/xorg/modules/libfb.so
[ 23.518] (II) Module fb: vendor="X.Org Foundation"
[ 23.518] compiled for 1.17.2, module version = 1.0.0
[ 23.518] ABI class: X.Org ANSI C Emulation, version 0.4
[ 23.518] (II) Loading sub module "wfb"
[ 23.518] (II) LoadModule: "wfb"
[ 23.518] (II) Loading /usr/lib/xorg/modules/libwfb.so
[ 23.519] (II) Module wfb: vendor="X.Org Foundation"
[ 23.519] compiled for 1.17.2, module version = 1.0.0
[ 23.519] ABI class: X.Org ANSI C Emulation, version 0.4
[ 23.519] (II) Loading sub module "ramdac"
[ 23.519] (II) LoadModule: "ramdac"
[ 23.519] (II) Module "ramdac" already built-in
[ 23.519] (WW) Falling back to old probe method for modesetting
[ 23.519] (II) NVIDIA(0): Creating default Display subsection in Screen section
"Default Screen Section" for depth/fbbpp 24/32
[ 23.519] (==) NVIDIA(0): Depth 24, (==) framebuffer bpp 32
[ 23.519] (==) NVIDIA(0): RGB weight 888
[ 23.519] (==) NVIDIA(0): Default visual is TrueColor
[ 23.519] (==) NVIDIA(0): Using gamma correction (1.0, 1.0, 1.0)
[ 23.519] (**) NVIDIA(0): Enabling 2D acceleration
[ 23.776] (II) NVIDIA: Allocated GPU:0 (GPU-435eb36d-83fb-a627-30a7-fd64603c574d) @
[ 23.776] (II) NVIDIA: PCI:0000:01:00.0
[ 23.782] (--) NVIDIA(0): Valid display device(s) on GPU-0 at PCI:1:0:0
[ 23.782] (--) NVIDIA(0): CRT-0 (boot)
[ 23.782] (--) NVIDIA(0): DFP-0
[ 23.782] (--) NVIDIA(0): DFP-1
[ 23.792] (--) NVIDIA(0): Samsung SyncMaster (CRT-0): connected
[ 23.792] (--) NVIDIA(0): Samsung SyncMaster (CRT-0): 400.0 MHz maximum pixel clock
[ 23.792] (--) NVIDIA(0):
[ 23.792] (--) NVIDIA(0): DFP-0: disconnected
[ 23.792] (--) NVIDIA(0): DFP-0: Internal TMDS
[ 23.792] (--) NVIDIA(0): DFP-0: 165.0 MHz maximum pixel clock
[ 23.792] (--) NVIDIA(0):
[ 23.792] (--) NVIDIA(0): DFP-1: disconnected
[ 23.792] (--) NVIDIA(0): DFP-1: Internal TMDS
[ 23.792] (--) NVIDIA(0): DFP-1: 330.0 MHz maximum pixel clock
[ 23.792] (--) NVIDIA(0):
[ 23.792] (II) NVIDIA(GPU-0): Found DRM driver nvidia-drm (20150116)
[ 23.792] (II) NVIDIA(0): NVIDIA GPU GeForce GT 740 (GK107) at PCI:1:0:0 (GPU-0)
[ 23.792] (--) NVIDIA(0): Memory: 2097152 kBytes
[ 23.792] (--) NVIDIA(0): VideoBIOS: 80.07.d9.00.4b
[ 23.792] (II) NVIDIA(0): Detected PCI Express Link width: 16X
[ 23.802] (**) NVIDIA(0): Using HorizSync/VertRefresh ranges from the EDID for display
[ 23.802] (**) NVIDIA(0): device Samsung SyncMaster (CRT-0) (Using EDID frequencies
[ 23.802] (**) NVIDIA(0): has been enabled on all display devices.)
[ 23.803] (==) NVIDIA(0):
[ 23.803] (==) NVIDIA(0): No modes were requested; the default mode "nvidia-auto-select"
[ 23.803] (==) NVIDIA(0): will be used as the requested mode.
[ 23.803] (==) NVIDIA(0):
[ 23.803] (II) NVIDIA(0): Validated MetaModes:
[ 23.803] (II) NVIDIA(0): "CRT-0:nvidia-auto-select"
[ 23.803] (II) NVIDIA(0): Virtual screen size determined to be 1280 x 1024
[ 23.806] (--) NVIDIA(0): DPI set to (95, 96); computed from "UseEdidDpi" X config
[ 23.806] (--) NVIDIA(0): option
[ 23.806] (II) UnloadModule: "modesetting"
[ 23.806] (II) Unloading modesetting
[ 23.806] (--) Depth 24 pixmap format is 32 bpp
[ 23.806] (II) NVIDIA: Using 3072.00 MB of virtual memory for indirect memory
[ 23.806] (II) NVIDIA: access.
[ 23.807] (II) NVIDIA(0): ACPI: failed to connect to the ACPI event daemon; the daemon
[ 23.807] (II) NVIDIA(0): may not be running or the "AcpidSocketPath" X
[ 23.807] (II) NVIDIA(0): configuration option may not be set correctly. When the
[ 23.807] (II) NVIDIA(0): ACPI event daemon is available, the NVIDIA X driver will
[ 23.807] (II) NVIDIA(0): try to use it to receive ACPI event notifications. For
[ 23.807] (II) NVIDIA(0): details, please see the "ConnectToAcpid" and
[ 23.807] (II) NVIDIA(0): "AcpidSocketPath" X configuration options in Appendix B: X
[ 23.807] (II) NVIDIA(0): Config Options in the README.
[ 23.817] (II) NVIDIA(0): Setting mode "CRT-0:nvidia-auto-select"
[ 23.859] (==) NVIDIA(0): Disabling shared memory pixmaps
[ 23.859] (==) NVIDIA(0): Backing store enabled
[ 23.859] (==) NVIDIA(0): Silken mouse enabled
[ 23.859] (==) NVIDIA(0): DPMS enabled
[ 23.859] (II) Loading sub module "dri2"
[ 23.859] (II) LoadModule: "dri2"
[ 23.859] (II) Module "dri2" already built-in
[ 23.859] (II) NVIDIA(0): [DRI2] Setup complete
[ 23.859] (II) NVIDIA(0): [DRI2] VDPAU driver: nvidia
[ 23.859] (--) RandR disabled
[ 23.862] (II) Initializing extension GLX
[ 23.862] (II) Indirect GLX disabled.(II) config/udev: Adding input device Power Button (/dev/input/event4)
[ 23.881] (**) Power Button: Applying InputClass "evdev keyboard catchall"
[ 23.881] (II) LoadModule: "evdev"
[ 23.881] (II) Loading /usr/lib/xorg/modules/input/evdev_drv.so
[ 23.881] (II) Module evdev: vendor="X.Org Foundation"
[ 23.881] compiled for 1.17.1, module version = 2.9.2
[ 23.881] Module class: X.Org XInput Driver
[ 23.881] ABI class: X.Org XInput driver, version 21.0
[ 23.881] (II) systemd-logind: got fd for /dev/input/event4 13:68 fd 31 paused 0
[ 23.881] (II) Using input driver 'evdev' for 'Power Button'
[ 23.881] (**) Power Button: always reports core events
[ 23.881] (**) evdev: Power Button: Device: "/dev/input/event4"
[ 23.881] (--) evdev: Power Button: Vendor 0 Product 0x1
[ 23.881] (--) evdev: Power Button: Found keys
[ 23.881] (II) evdev: Power Button: Configuring as keyboard
[ 23.881] (**) Option "config_info" "udev:/sys/devices/LNXSYSTM:00/LNXPWRBN:00/input/input4/event4"
[ 23.881] (II) XINPUT: Adding extended input device "Power Button" (type: KEYBOARD, id 6)
[ 23.881] (**) Option "xkb_rules" "evdev"
[ 23.881] (**) Option "xkb_model" "pc104"
[ 23.881] (**) Option "xkb_layout" "us"
[ 23.892] (II) config/udev: Adding input device Power Button (/dev/input/event2)
[ 23.892] (**) Power Button: Applying InputClass "evdev keyboard catchall"
[ 23.892] (II) systemd-logind: got fd for /dev/input/event2 13:66 fd 32 paused 0
[ 23.892] (II) Using input driver 'evdev' for 'Power Button'
[ 23.892] (**) Power Button: always reports core events
[ 23.892] (**) evdev: Power Button: Device: "/dev/input/event2"
[ 23.892] (--) evdev: Power Button: Vendor 0 Product 0x1
[ 23.892] (--) evdev: Power Button: Found keys
[ 23.892] (II) evdev: Power Button: Configuring as keyboard
[ 23.892] (**) Option "config_info" "udev:/sys/devices/LNXSYSTM:00/LNXSYBUS:00/PNP0C0C:00/input/input2/event2"
[ 23.892] (II) XINPUT: Adding extended input device "Power Button" (type: KEYBOARD, id 7)
[ 23.892] (**) Option "xkb_rules" "evdev"
[ 23.892] (**) Option "xkb_model" "pc104"
[ 23.892] (**) Option "xkb_layout" "us"
[ 23.892] (II) config/udev: Adding input device Sleep Button (/dev/input/event3)
[ 23.892] (**) Sleep Button: Applying InputClass "evdev keyboard catchall"
[ 23.893] (II) systemd-logind: got fd for /dev/input/event3 13:67 fd 33 paused 0
[ 23.893] (II) Using input driver 'evdev' for 'Sleep Button'
[ 23.893] (**) Sleep Button: always reports core events
[ 23.893] (**) evdev: Sleep Button: Device: "/dev/input/event3"
[ 23.893] (--) evdev: Sleep Button: Vendor 0 Product 0x3
[ 23.893] (--) evdev: Sleep Button: Found keys
[ 23.893] (II) evdev: Sleep Button: Configuring as keyboard
[ 23.893] (**) Option "config_info" "udev:/sys/devices/LNXSYSTM:00/LNXSYBUS:00/PNP0C0E:00/input/input3/event3"
[ 23.893] (II) XINPUT: Adding extended input device "Sleep Button" (type: KEYBOARD, id 8)
[ 23.893] (**) Option "xkb_rules" "evdev"
[ 23.893] (**) Option "xkb_model" "pc104"
[ 23.893] (**) Option "xkb_layout" "us"
[ 23.893] (II) config/udev: Adding input device HDA NVidia HDMI/DP,pcm=3 (/dev/input/event11)
[ 23.893] (II) No input driver specified, ignoring this device.
[ 23.893] (II) This device may have been added with another device file.
[ 23.893] (II) config/udev: Adding input device HDA NVidia HDMI/DP,pcm=7 (/dev/input/event12)
[ 23.893] (II) No input driver specified, ignoring this device.
[ 23.893] (II) This device may have been added with another device file.
[ 23.893] (II) config/udev: Adding input device USB OPTICAL MOUSE (/dev/input/event1)
[ 23.893] (**) USB OPTICAL MOUSE: Applying InputClass "evdev pointer catchall"
[ 23.946] (II) systemd-logind: got fd for /dev/input/event1 13:65 fd 34 paused 0
[ 23.946] (II) Using input driver 'evdev' for ' USB OPTICAL MOUSE'
[ 23.946] (**) USB OPTICAL MOUSE: always reports core events
[ 23.946] (**) evdev: USB OPTICAL MOUSE: Device: "/dev/input/event1"
[ 23.946] (--) evdev: USB OPTICAL MOUSE: Vendor 0 Product 0x538
[ 23.946] (--) evdev: USB OPTICAL MOUSE: Found 3 mouse buttons
[ 23.946] (--) evdev: USB OPTICAL MOUSE: Found scroll wheel(s)
[ 23.946] (--) evdev: USB OPTICAL MOUSE: Found relative axes
[ 23.946] (--) evdev: USB OPTICAL MOUSE: Found x and y relative axes
[ 23.946] (II) evdev: USB OPTICAL MOUSE: Configuring as mouse
[ 23.946] (II) evdev: USB OPTICAL MOUSE: Adding scrollwheel support
[ 23.946] (**) evdev: USB OPTICAL MOUSE: YAxisMapping: buttons 4 and 5
[ 23.946] (**) evdev: USB OPTICAL MOUSE: EmulateWheelButton: 4, EmulateWheelInertia: 10, EmulateWheelTimeout: 200
[ 23.946] (**) Option "config_info" "udev:/sys/devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:14.0/usb3/3-13/3-13:1.0/0003:0000:0538.0001/input/input1/event1"
[ 23.946] (II) XINPUT: Adding extended input device " USB OPTICAL MOUSE" (type: MOUSE, id 9)
[ 23.946] (II) evdev: USB OPTICAL MOUSE: initialized for relative axes.
[ 23.947] (**) USB OPTICAL MOUSE: (accel) keeping acceleration scheme 1
[ 23.947] (**) USB OPTICAL MOUSE: (accel) acceleration profile 0
[ 23.947] (**) USB OPTICAL MOUSE: (accel) acceleration factor: 2.000
[ 23.947] (**) USB OPTICAL MOUSE: (accel) acceleration threshold: 4
[ 23.947] (II) config/udev: Adding input device USB OPTICAL MOUSE (/dev/input/mouse0)
[ 23.947] (II) No input driver specified, ignoring this device.
[ 23.947] (II) This device may have been added with another device file.
[ 23.947] (II) config/udev: Adding input device HDA Intel PCH Front Headphone (/dev/input/event10)
[ 23.947] (II) No input driver specified, ignoring this device.
[ 23.947] (II) This device may have been added with another device file.
[ 23.947] (II) config/udev: Adding input device HDA Intel PCH Front Mic (/dev/input/event6)
[ 23.947] (II) No input driver specified, ignoring this device.
[ 23.947] (II) This device may have been added with another device file.
[ 23.947] (II) config/udev: Adding input device HDA Intel PCH Rear Mic (/dev/input/event7)
[ 23.947] (II) No input driver specified, ignoring this device.
[ 23.947] (II) This device may have been added with another device file.
[ 23.947] (II) config/udev: Adding input device HDA Intel PCH Line (/dev/input/event8)
[ 23.947] (II) No input driver specified, ignoring this device.
[ 23.947] (II) This device may have been added with another device file.
[ 23.947] (II) config/udev: Adding input device HDA Intel PCH Line Out (/dev/input/event9)
[ 23.947] (II) No input driver specified, ignoring this device.
[ 23.947] (II) This device may have been added with another device file.
[ 23.948] (II) config/udev: Adding input device AT Translated Set 2 keyboard (/dev/input/event0)
[ 23.948] (**) AT Translated Set 2 keyboard: Applying InputClass "evdev keyboard catchall"
[ 23.948] (II) systemd-logind: got fd for /dev/input/event0 13:64 fd 35 paused 0
[ 23.948] (II) Using input driver 'evdev' for 'AT Translated Set 2 keyboard'
[ 23.948] (**) AT Translated Set 2 keyboard: always reports core events
[ 23.948] (**) evdev: AT Translated Set 2 keyboard: Device: "/dev/input/event0"
[ 23.948] (--) evdev: AT Translated Set 2 keyboard: Vendor 0x1 Product 0x1
[ 23.948] (--) evdev: AT Translated Set 2 keyboard: Found keys
[ 23.948] (II) evdev: AT Translated Set 2 keyboard: Configuring as keyboard
[ 23.948] (**) Option "config_info" "udev:/sys/devices/platform/i8042/serio0/input/input0/event0"
[ 23.948] (II) XINPUT: Adding extended input device "AT Translated Set 2 keyboard" (type: KEYBOARD, id 10)
[ 23.948] (**) Option "xkb_rules" "evdev"
[ 23.948] (**) Option "xkb_model" "pc104"
[ 23.948] (**) Option "xkb_layout" "us"
[ 23.948] (II) config/udev: Adding input device PC Speaker (/dev/input/event5)
[ 23.948] (II) No input driver specified, ignoring this device.
[ 23.948] (II) This device may have been added with another device file.
[ 113.215] (II) systemd-logind: got pause for 13:68
[ 113.215] (II) systemd-logind: got pause for 13:66
[ 113.215] (II) systemd-logind: got pause for 13:65
[ 113.215] (II) systemd-logind: got pause for 13:67
[ 113.215] (II) systemd-logind: got pause for 226:0
[ 113.215] (II) systemd-logind: got pause for 13:64I looked for a gdm log. Did not find one.
Any ideas?
Last edited by Florin Lungu (2015-08-26 16:31:04)
Offline
I recently did a fresh install as well.
Things I had to consider was the type of card I had as I new my card was not supported in the latest drivers. I'm assuming you have a newer card than I do, however you can check that it is compatible here.
I see an error that xf86-video-fbdev and xf86-video-vesa are not loaded. Not sure if that is an issue with this or not.
Nouveau and nv shouldn't be an issue since you have the nvidia drivers loaded.
What is the specific error that you are getting? You say it's before loading gdm -- does mean that you boot to a prompt and then manually start gdm? Or you see this error because gdm isn't loading?
Offline
The system is booting just fine. Your thread title is incorrect, to attract the right members, please change the title. Xorg is running okay, but you did get some warnings about the acpi daemon not being available.
The problem seems to be Gnome. You should be able to reach a console by entering Ctrl-Alt-F2. Log in, and disable gdm. Then, create a ~/.xinitrc and use startx to start a gnome session. When (if) it blows up, post the error messages here.
Nothing is too wonderful to be true, if it be consistent with the laws of nature -- Michael Faraday
The shortest way to ruin a country is to give power to demagogues.— Dionysius of Halicarnassus
---
How to Ask Questions the Smart Way
Offline
Pages: 1