Arch Linux

kro24889

Member

Registered: 2015-10-11

Posts: 4

New to Linux but...

So for the last few months I've tried a small number of distros and my favorite so far has been Ubuntu mate. I'm still learning about Linux and how the system works what should I make sure I have a firm grasp of before I try to install Arch Linux on a machine. Arch looks like ALOT of work but I do like the customization you can perform on it, I was wondering in terms of system security, having to do the updates yourself is it still relatively safe? And I guess its up to you to keep track when updates for the kernel or apps or programs come out? Just some basic questions, thanks for your time whoever answers.

Ogis1975

Member

From: Vilnius, Lithuania

Registered: 2015-09-25

Posts: 8

Re: New to Linux but...

Hello kro24889. I am not arch linux guru (i am newbie), but i think good start point is Arch Linux Wiki. Also, questions, related security in Arch linux, you can read Arch Linux Wiki

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Trilby

Inspector Parrot

Registered: 2011-11-29

Posts: 29,561

Website

Re: New to Linux but...

I guess its up to you to keep track when updates for the kernel or apps or programs come out?

Not really.  Just update regularly (daily, weekly, whatever) with a single command (`pacman -Syu`) and you will always be up to date.  There is no need to try to follow the news of what is changing in the kernel or other major packages to know when to update.

Now following that news can have other benefits - but for knowing when to update, just do so frequently.

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kro24889

Member

Registered: 2015-10-11

Posts: 4

Re: New to Linux but...

Hello kro24889. I am not arch linux guru (i am newbie), but i think good start point is Arch Linux Wiki. Also, questions, related security in Arch linux, you can read Arch Linux Wiki

I read some of the install guide which seemed complex to me and that's what I'm asking, what skills can I learn so I won't mess up if I try to install Arch? Even a point in a general correct direction would be great.

Scimmia

Fellow

Registered: 2012-09-01

Posts: 11,600

Re: New to Linux but...

Best advice I could give you would be to try it in a virtual machine and see how it goes.

SaltySockets

Member

Registered: 2015-10-10

Posts: 22

Re: New to Linux but...

Keeping your Arch system up to date is very easy, but you need to make sure that the update goes as planned and you don't run into errors during the update/upgrade. If you REALLY want to know how Linux works then using Ubuntu is one of the worst choices you can make. Ubuntu is for when you just want something that works and don't care about what happens and what runs under the hood (typical user, not computer savvy). I would suggest actually going to linuxfromscratch.org if you're serious about understanding what Linux and GNU actually is and how it all hangs together. I've installed Linux From Scratch several times through the years and I've learned a lot just by following the book on that site (systemd version is recommended). Once that's done and you still want to learn more but don't want to spend a lot of time keeping track of updates and compile updated packages yourself then I suggest Arch for the simplicity of managing packages. The Arch package manager (pacman) is really easy to use. You just need to keep in mind that packages are aren't as thorughly tested when they are pushed onto the Arch package repository and therefore you need to pay more attention on what's happening when you install and update packages.
You can learn a lot by just going straight to Arch but LFS (Linux From Scratch) is superb if you want to learn the down to earth unabstracted basics of GNU/Linux. LFS is however not ideal since it lacks package managing and there's no easy way of keeping track of updated packages. I would use LFS if it was easy to get pacman for LFS. Arch is a superb distribution if you want to avoid the need to compile everything but still stay close to earth.

ewaller

Administrator

From: Pasadena, CA

Registered: 2009-07-13

Posts: 19,804

Re: New to Linux but...

Be aware that Arch is oriented towards the more seasoned Linux user.  That does not mean that less seasoned members are not welcome, nor do we expect everyone to be gurus.  We do expect that people do their research.  You seem to be so inclined

Might I suggest you install VirtualBox on whatever machine you've available (Windows, Ubuntu, whatever) and build your first Arch Installation in a virtual machine?
OTOH, what are you concerned about "messing up" ?  If at first you don't succeed, learn from your mistakes and try again.

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frank604

Member

From: BC, Canada

Registered: 2011-04-20

Posts: 1,212

Re: New to Linux but...

I'm still learning about Linux and how the system works what should I make sure I have a firm grasp of before I try to install Arch Linux on a machine. Arch looks like ALOT of work but I do like the customization you can perform on it...

It's been a good 4-5 years with arch and I'm still learning.  Don't overcomplicate your assumptions.  Like everyone says, either fire up a vm or just install on a spare pc.  You may be surprised how simple Arch is.

kro24889

Member

Registered: 2015-10-11

Posts: 4

Re: New to Linux but...

I don't have alot of important files or anything so I may  try to install it on my laptop one of these days, you guys are giving me a lot of encouragement ha

kro24889

Member

Registered: 2015-10-11

Posts: 4

Re: New to Linux but...

Keeping your Arch system up to date is very easy, but you need to make sure that the update goes as planned and you don't run into errors during the update/upgrade. If you REALLY want to know how Linux works then using Ubuntu is one of the worst choices you can make. Ubuntu is for when you just want something that works and don't care about what happens and what runs under the hood (typical user, not computer savvy). I would suggest actually going to linuxfromscratch.org if you're serious about understanding what Linux and GNU actually is and how it all hangs together. I've installed Linux From Scratch several times through the years and I've learned a lot just by following the book on that site (systemd version is recommended). Once that's done and you still want to learn more but don't want to spend a lot of time keeping track of updates and compile updated packages yourself then I suggest Arch for the simplicity of managing packages. The Arch package manager (pacman) is really easy to use. You just need to keep in mind that packages are aren't as thorughly tested when they are pushed onto the Arch package repository and therefore you need to pay more attention on what's happening when you install and update packages.
You can learn a lot by just going straight to Arch but LFS (Linux From Scratch) is superb if you want to learn the down to earth unabstracted basics of GNU/Linux. LFS is however not ideal since it lacks package managing and there's no easy way of keeping track of updated packages. I would use LFS if it was easy to get pacman for LFS. Arch is a superb distribution if you want to avoid the need to compile everything but still stay close to earth.

Okay good that's what I was afraid of having to compile stuff ALL the time.

Scimmia

Fellow

Registered: 2012-09-01

Posts: 11,600

Re: New to Linux but...

I don't have alot of important files or anything so I may  try to install it on my laptop one of these days, you guys are giving me a lot of encouragement ha

No harm in trying it, especially if you start in a VM. Arch isn't for everyone, but for someone that wants to learn and is willing to do some reading, it can be a great experience. You're getting a lot of encouragement because you seem to have the right attitude

Ogis1975

Member

From: Vilnius, Lithuania

Registered: 2015-09-25

Posts: 8

Re: New to Linux but...

Hello kro24889. I am not arch linux guru (i am newbie), but i think good start point is Arch Linux Wiki. Also, questions, related security in Arch linux, you can read Arch Linux Wiki

I read some of the install guide which seemed complex to me and that's what I'm asking, what skills can I learn so I won't mess up if I try to install Arch? Even a point in a general correct direction would be great.

You can try Architect Linux (Arch Linux installer), but this is not arch way....If you want try learning curve, keep in mind that you must be willing to invest significant time into learning a new system, as well as accept the fact that Arch is fundamentally designed as a DIY (Do-It-Yourself) distribution. It is the user who assembles the system and controls what it will become.

Last edited by Ogis1975 (2015-10-11 17:21:21)

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Alad

Wiki Admin/IRC Op

From: Bagelstan

Registered: 2014-05-04

Posts: 2,413

Website

Re: New to Linux but...

Please don't suggest landfill scripts like Architect, especially not to beginners.

kro24889: Probably the most complicated part of the installation, as you may have noticed, is partitioning the drives. For a first attempt, you can always go with automated solutions like gparted, though you should still have some basic understanding of what's happening.

edit: See the wiki, and pages like the Funtoo partitioning guide or DiskTerms, for help.

Last edited by Alad (2015-10-11 17:33:42)

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SaltySockets

Member

Registered: 2015-10-10

Posts: 22

Re: New to Linux but...

Please don't suggest landfill scripts like Architect, especially not to beginners.

kro24889: Probably the most complicated part of the installation, as you may have noticed, is partitioning the drives. For a first attempt, you can always go with automated solutions like gparted, though you should still have some basic understanding of what's happening.

Yes, I highly recommend doing the partitioning by yourself and doing some research about the partition layout and filesystem choice. I don't like installers that just put some partiton layout on the drive or fiddle with an already partitioned drive.
The partition layout depends on what you intend to do and what filesystems you want to use.

Once you've settled with a partition layout and filesystem then the rest is a breeze. There's way more documentation out there if you install Arch the "Arch way". More people will also be able to help.

Rethil

Member

Registered: 2014-08-21

Posts: 83

Re: New to Linux but...

I'm not linux guru myself but I would recommend asking yourself two thing before doing anything:

1. Do I know what am I doing?
2. Do I know why I'm doing it?

If both answers are yes you will be good.

dcdriving

Member

From: United Kingdom

Registered: 2015-01-20

Posts: 70

Re: New to Linux but...

When I want to try something new I just have a usb stick with arch installed on it and I try it on that in case I do something stupid. I know that a virtual machine would do the job and may be the best solution but have always prefered to do it this way as it makes more sense to me as a newbie.  If you have a spare usb stick you could try installing arch to that instead of your laptops hard disk and set up partitions yourself to see what happens without changing the laptops hard disk at all. Please note though that you would have to be careful that you were actually partitioning the usb disk and not your laptops disk!  And back up first.

Roken

Member

From: South Wales, UK

Registered: 2012-01-16

Posts: 1,253

Re: New to Linux but...

As has been said, LFS is a great way to learn about the underlying structure, though it's time consuming. However, once you get your first successful boot, and you can say "i made that", then you'll start to think of Arch as the easy way to do it.

I disagree that partitioning is the hardest part. The hardest part is knowing when to stop (i.e. when you've got a system that will do all you want or need it to do) because by then, you'll have the bug and at least a basic knowledge (though enough knowledge) to want to keep going.

The Arch wiki is possibly the best Linux wiki in the world, and is often used by non-Archers as their go to resource. The base system is rock solid, and the community is incredibly helpful and knowledgeable.

I agree with the consensus, start in a VM. If you must, reinstall 3 - 4 times in a VM until you are comfortable with a live install, but be warned, once you invest that much time and effort, you'll be here forever

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