[solved] virtualbox depends on virtualbox-host-dkms?

midixinga · 2016-03-06 12:38:27

EDIT
-----------
Solution: Install the associated linux-headers for your kernel (for the stock kernel w/o suffix, "-lts" for linux-lts and so on)
Then dkms will build the modules for you automatically, when there is a new kernel-version.

change request for dkms and dependency to linux-headers: https://bugs.archlinux.org/task/48498
change request to bring back precompiled virtualbox modules: https://bugs.archlinux.org/task/48514

ORIGINAL POST
-----------
Why virtualbox depends now on virtualbox-host-dkms for the official arch-kernel?

I got installed:
[2016-03-06 13:20] [ALPM] installed dkms (2.2.0.3+git151023-5)
[2016-03-06 13:20] [ALPM] installed virtualbox-host-dkms (5.0.14-4)

And - bad - I got removed:
[2016-03-06 13:20] [ALPM] removed virtualbox-host-modules (5.0.14-4)

I was able to reinstall virtualbox-host-modules, so now I am able to start VM again.

But ist the new dependency a packaging error ?

Last edited by midixinga (2016-03-11 18:57:19)

macstar3000 · 2016-03-06 13:05:32

i wonder about this too, todays update reinstalled the dkms stuff i manually removed days ago because it was preventing the system from booting.

j1simon · 2016-03-06 13:23:05

Same problem. I have installed:

local/virtualbox 5.0.14-1
local/virtualbox-ext-oracle 5.0.14-1
local/virtualbox-guest-iso 5.0.14-1
local/virtualbox-host-modules 5.0.14-4
local/linux 4.4.3-1

Today I want to upgrade but:

:: Synchronizing package databases...
...
:: Starting full system upgrade...
:: Replace virtualbox-host-modules with community/virtualbox-host-dkms? [Y/n] n
resolving dependencies...
looking for conflicting packages...

Packages (55) apr-util-1.5.4-2  avahi-0.6.32-2  binutils-2.26-3  curl-7.47.1-2  dkms-2.2.0.3+git151023-5
              gfbgraph-0.2.3-1  git-2.7.2-2  gnutls-3.4.10-1  gst-plugins-bad-1.6.3-6  krb5-1.13.2-3
              ldns-1.6.17-4  libdatrie-0.2.10-1  libevent-2.0.22-2  libimobiledevice-1.2.0-3  libldap-2.4.43-3
              libshout-1:2.4.1-2  libssh2-1.7.0-2  libthai-0.1.24-1  neon-0.30.1-2  nmap-7.01-2  nodejs-5.7.1-2
              openssl-1.0.2.g-3  opusfile-0.7-2  perl-net-ssleay-1.72-3  python-3.5.1-2  python-dbus-1.2.2-1
              python-dbus-common-1.2.2-1  python2-2.7.11-2  python2-cryptography-1.2.3-2  python2-dbus-1.2.2-1
              qt4-4.8.7-7  qt5-base-5.5.1-10  qt5-declarative-5.5.1-10  qt5-location-5.5.1-10
              qt5-quick1-5.5.1-10  qt5-quickcontrols-5.5.1-10  qt5-script-5.5.1-10  qt5-sensors-5.5.1-10
              qt5-svg-5.5.1-10  qt5-webchannel-5.5.1-10  qt5-webkit-5.5.1-10  qt5-x11extras-5.5.1-10
              qt5-xmlpatterns-5.5.1-10  redland-1:1.0.17-3  rtmpdump-1:2.4.r96.fa8646d-2  s-nail-14.8.6-2
              serf-1.3.8-2  sqlite-3.11.1-1  transmission-cli-2.90-3  transmission-gtk-2.90-3
              virtualbox-5.0.14-4  virtualbox-host-dkms-5.0.14-4  wget-1.16.3-2  wpa_supplicant-1:2.5-3
              xkeyboard-config-2.17-2
...

Why it installs dkms? The wiki doesn't say anything about this, either in the Arch news.
I have opened a task: https://bugs.archlinux.org/task/48473

midixinga · 2016-03-06 13:51:14

you may want to see also: https://lists.archlinux.org/pipermail/a … 27801.html

j1simon · 2016-03-06 13:55:05

If it asks "Replace virtualbox-host-modules with community/virtualbox-host-dkms?" and I answer "n", why it installs dkms anyway?

j1simon · 2016-03-06 14:14:57

ok, someone has closed the task/bug because: "This is a bug tracker. For bugs. This is not a bug."
But now Virtualbox installs "dkms" and "virtualbox-host-dkms" even it doesn't need it. If this isn't a bug, what is this?

Scimmia · 2016-03-06 14:22:05

It does need them for it's modules. This is by design.

midixinga · 2016-03-06 14:27:57

From my pov it's of course a bug; because you have to install linux-headers (which is only an optional dependency) to get it work w/o precompiled host-modules.
It works now after removing virtualbox-host-modules and installing dkms, virtualbox-host-dkms, linux-headers and reboot.
But now I think modules must be recompiled every time virtualbox is updated - I hope this will be done automatically.

I think this is not a userfriendly behaviour. And there is still Allan McRaes valid question: Why?

Scimmia · 2016-03-06 14:30:43

midixinga wrote:

From my pov it's of course a bug

A bug, by definition, is unexpected behavior. This is not.

I'm not arguing that this is the best way forward, just that questions such as the one in the bug tracker do not belong there.

Last edited by Scimmia (2016-03-06 14:32:09)

midixinga · 2016-03-06 14:35:50

Scimmia wrote:

It does need them for it's modules. This is by design.

This was not by design before. Who changed the design (w/o any announcement and w/o proper dependencies) and why he/she did it?
"Yes it does." as explanation in the bug is a little sparse.

midixinga · 2016-03-06 14:41:22

Scimmia wrote:

A bug, by definition, is unexpected behavior. This is not.

Befor installing linux-headers I got, when i tried to start a VM:

Kernel driver not installed (rc=-1908)

The VirtualBox Linux kernel driver (vboxdrv) is either not loaded or there is a permission problem with /dev/vboxdrv. Please reinstall the kernel module by executing

'/sbin/rcvboxdrv setup'

as root. If it is available in your distribution, you should install the DKMS package first. This package keeps track of Linux kernel changes and recompiles the vboxdrv kernel module if necessary.

where: suplibOsInit what: 3 VERR_VM_DRIVER_NOT_INSTALLED (-1908) - The support driver is not installed. On linux, open returned ENOENT.

For me that was unexpected enough.

I'm not arguing that this is the best way forward, just that questions such as the one in the bug tracker do not belong there.

Hmm

Scimmia · 2016-03-06 14:43:46

midixinga wrote:

"Yes it does." as explanation in the bug is a little sparse.

The bug report just said "Hey, it does this". What other response is there? Yes, it does that. Great.

midixinga wrote:

Befor installing linux-headers I got, when i tried to start a VM:

That's why you have to pay attention to what pacman tells you. The headers are optional deps.

Last edited by Scimmia (2016-03-06 14:44:53)

j1simon · 2016-03-06 17:11:07

Scimmia wrote:

It does need them for it's modules. This is by design.

Since when? March 4 "virtualbox-host-modules" was upgraded: 5.0.14-3 -> 5.0.14-4
March 6 "virtualbox" was upgraded: 5.0.14-1 -> 5.0.14-4, really it's the same version but some people have decided, without explanation or actual need, make a change as drastic as that.

If the 5.0.14-4 version works perfectly without "virtualbox-host-dkms" and without "dkms", what is the reason to install them? Virtualbox aren't using them!! Not used (or needed) in the previous version but now it seems that yes, it needs them but not in use.

I don't understand this argumentation. I would understand that change if what they want is to change the model completely to DKMS. But in that case, we appreciate that such change was notified in the Arch news (https://www.archlinux.org/news/), I guess they are for this sort of thing.
Regards.

Scimmia · 2016-03-06 17:13:01

j1simon wrote:

If the 5.0.14-4 version works perfectly without "virtualbox-host-dkms" and without "dkms", what is the reason to install them? Virtualbox aren't using them!! Not used (or needed) in the previous version but now it seems that yes, it needs them but not in use.

It only works because you still have the old, deprecated binary module packages installed. Once those go out of date, everything will stop working in your setup.

Mr Green · 2016-03-06 17:39:24

Upgraded and got this

[mrgreen@arch ~]$ sudo /sbin/rcvboxdrv setup
Unloading modules: 
Loading modules: modprobe: FATAL: Module vboxnetadp not found in directory /lib/modules/4.4.3-1-ARCH
modprobe: FATAL: Module vboxnetflt not found in directory /lib/modules/4.4.3-1-ARCH
modprobe: FATAL: Module vboxpci not found in directory /lib/modules/4.4.3-1-ARCH
modprobe: FATAL: Module vboxdrv not found in directory /lib/modules/4.4.3-1-ARCH

dkms is installed....

Scimmia · 2016-03-06 17:41:02

Mr Green, and the headers for your chosen kernel?

eschwartz · 2016-03-06 17:43:31

j1simon wrote:

ok, someone has closed the task/bug because: "This is a bug tracker. For bugs. This is not a bug."
But now Virtualbox installs "dkms" and "virtualbox-host-dkms" even it doesn't need it. If this isn't a bug, what is this?

That doesn't look like a bug to me either.

Maybe you could file an actual bug.

Something like "virtualbox-host-modules replaced by virtualbox-host-dkms", and bill it as a feature request to "also provide the precompiled modules, so people don't have to install 45 MB worth of kernel headers/module source code just to use virtualbox with the stock kernel".

I don't think it is fair to the Arch devs to make them responsible for reading your mind and figuring out what you mean, but do not say.

Scimmia · 2016-03-06 17:45:59

If you do, make sure to state a valid and at least marginally persuasive argument. Tickets that just say "Change it back!" will be closed.

Mr Green · 2016-03-06 17:52:16

@Scimmia loading now!! doh!

j1simon · 2016-03-06 18:10:03

It would be a great idea too update the wiki before this change explain the new behaviour.

And if the virtualbox-host-dkms and dkms is a mandatory dependency now, linux-headers should be too.

Last edited by j1simon (2016-03-06 18:12:32)

midixinga · 2016-03-06 18:14:17

Scimmia wrote:

It only works because you still have the old, deprecated binary module packages installed. Once those go out of date, everything will stop working in your setup.

In fact for the moment they aren't deprecated, but if I understand you right, they will be, or in other words the package virtualbox-host-modules will not be maintained in the future?

I`m not sure about the reasons for this change (smarter/easier to maintain the packages? - this would be a valid reasoning). But let's go forward; I think, there is still the issue, that the linux-headers are absolutely needed for virtualbox; and which one is depending on the linux kernel. I'm right?

Just listening them as optional dependency in pacman is not enough imho. Any idea / possibility inside pacman or somewhere else to show the user, that he HAS to install the appropriate linux-headers for virtualbox?

midixinga · 2016-03-06 18:20:11

Eschwartz wrote:

I don't think it is fair to the Arch devs to make them responsible for reading your mind and figuring out what you mean, but do not say.

Sorry, when I opened this thread I did not know the technical background; and I think j1simon may be did not know it, when he reported the "bug".

For me I'm only a user.

eschwartz · 2016-03-06 18:24:00

j1simon wrote:

And if the virtualbox-host-dkms and dkms is a mandatory dependency now, linux-headers should be too.

midixinga wrote:

Just listening them as optional dependency in pacman is not enough imho. Any idea / possibility inside pacman or somewhere else to show the user, that he HAS to install the appropriate linux-headers for virtualbox?

It would be rather unfair towards users of a different kernel to make a hard dependency on the stock kernel.

Scimmia · 2016-03-06 18:41:51

midixinga wrote:

In fact for the moment they aren't deprecated, but if I understand you right, they will be, or in other words the package virtualbox-host-modules will not be maintained in the future?

Just because they're still in the repos doesn't mean they aren't deprecated. My understanding is that it's the maintainer's intention to drop the binary modules and only maintain the dkms version.

midixinga wrote:

I`m not sure about the reasons for this change (smarter/easier to maintain the packages? - this would be a valid reasoning).

Binary modules are a huge pain. The kernel breaks the module interface every couple of releases (and I'm taking micro-version, bug fix releases) with no warning and no way to tell until things fail.

midixinga wrote:

But let's go forward; I think, there is still the issue, that the linux-headers are absolutely needed for virtualbox; and which one is depending on the linux kernel. I'm right?
Just listening them as optional dependency in pacman is not enough imho. Any idea / possibility inside pacman or somewhere else to show the user, that he HAS to install the appropriate linux-headers for virtualbox?

Right, you need the headers for your chosen kernel. AFAIK, pacman has no way of enforcing this.

ZekeSulastin · 2016-03-06 18:45:23

Eschwartz wrote:

It would be rather unfair towards users of a different kernel to make a hard dependency on the stock kernel.

... wouldn't that make it just like every other hardcoded dependency that you would have to work around somehow if you replaced a key system component?

Arch Linux

#1 2016-03-06 12:38:27

[solved] virtualbox depends on virtualbox-host-dkms?

#2 2016-03-06 13:05:32

Re: [solved] virtualbox depends on virtualbox-host-dkms?

#3 2016-03-06 13:23:05

Re: [solved] virtualbox depends on virtualbox-host-dkms?

#4 2016-03-06 13:51:14

Re: [solved] virtualbox depends on virtualbox-host-dkms?

#5 2016-03-06 13:55:05

Re: [solved] virtualbox depends on virtualbox-host-dkms?

#6 2016-03-06 14:14:57

Re: [solved] virtualbox depends on virtualbox-host-dkms?

#7 2016-03-06 14:22:05

Re: [solved] virtualbox depends on virtualbox-host-dkms?

#8 2016-03-06 14:27:57

Re: [solved] virtualbox depends on virtualbox-host-dkms?

#9 2016-03-06 14:30:43

Re: [solved] virtualbox depends on virtualbox-host-dkms?

#10 2016-03-06 14:35:50

Re: [solved] virtualbox depends on virtualbox-host-dkms?

#11 2016-03-06 14:41:22

Re: [solved] virtualbox depends on virtualbox-host-dkms?

#12 2016-03-06 14:43:46

Re: [solved] virtualbox depends on virtualbox-host-dkms?

#13 2016-03-06 17:11:07

Re: [solved] virtualbox depends on virtualbox-host-dkms?

#14 2016-03-06 17:13:01

Re: [solved] virtualbox depends on virtualbox-host-dkms?

#15 2016-03-06 17:39:24

Re: [solved] virtualbox depends on virtualbox-host-dkms?

#16 2016-03-06 17:41:02

Re: [solved] virtualbox depends on virtualbox-host-dkms?

#17 2016-03-06 17:43:31

Re: [solved] virtualbox depends on virtualbox-host-dkms?

#18 2016-03-06 17:45:59

Re: [solved] virtualbox depends on virtualbox-host-dkms?

#19 2016-03-06 17:52:16

Re: [solved] virtualbox depends on virtualbox-host-dkms?

#20 2016-03-06 18:10:03

Re: [solved] virtualbox depends on virtualbox-host-dkms?

#21 2016-03-06 18:14:17

Re: [solved] virtualbox depends on virtualbox-host-dkms?

#22 2016-03-06 18:20:11

Re: [solved] virtualbox depends on virtualbox-host-dkms?

#23 2016-03-06 18:24:00

Re: [solved] virtualbox depends on virtualbox-host-dkms?

#24 2016-03-06 18:41:51

Re: [solved] virtualbox depends on virtualbox-host-dkms?

#25 2016-03-06 18:45:23

Re: [solved] virtualbox depends on virtualbox-host-dkms?

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