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#1 2016-03-30 22:16:23

headkase
Member
Registered: 2011-12-06
Posts: 1,831

Microsoft is building a "reverse WINE"

Embrace, extend, extinguish.

See: Windows Linux Subsystem
See: bash in Windows.

It will be interesting to see how well it works.  Basically, it will run unmodified Ubuntu Linux executables in the way WINE now runs Windows software.

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#2 2016-03-30 22:24:14

ewaller
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From: Pasadena, CA
Registered: 2009-07-13
Posts: 16,282

Re: Microsoft is building a "reverse WINE"

Good for them.


Nothing is too wonderful to be true, if it be consistent with the laws of nature -- Michael Faraday
Sometimes it is the people no one can imagine anything of who do the things no one can imagine. -- Alan Turing
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#3 2016-03-30 22:40:48

ayekat
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Registered: 2011-01-17
Posts: 1,270
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Re: Microsoft is building a "reverse WINE"

I would have preferred them switching Windows to a Unix(-like) subsystem like Apple did with OS 9 → OS X.

Whenever I have to resort to using wine, it's either because I want to play a game, or because C'thulhu made me do so. I don't recall ever having used wine for being productive with a Windows application. So I don't believe this "reverse-wine" will be a game-changer either.

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#4 2016-03-30 22:54:31

headkase
Member
Registered: 2011-12-06
Posts: 1,831

Re: Microsoft is building a "reverse WINE"

I've said it before: WINE is an API translation layer.  It takes one set of API's and translates them to another.  Remember back in the first days of computers?  No software written for one model of computer ran on another.  This effect culminated today in the Windows ecosystem "lock-in."  And now we are seeing this subsystem evolve on Windows that translates Ubuntu calls to it.  Like it or not, hovering around 1% on the desktop Linux is not a serious contender for mind-share.  In every single other segment however it has already won.  My initial response is not that creating a Linux subsystem in Windows is to bring Linux people into it but rather to stem Windows people from leaving for Linux.

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#5 2016-03-30 23:01:22

Trilby
Inspector Parrot
Registered: 2011-11-29
Posts: 20,475
Website

Re: Microsoft is building a "reverse WINE"

I hope this catches on, I might not have to bother figuring out how to build software for windows.  I'll build for linux and be done with it.


"UNIX is simple and coherent..." - Dennis Ritchie, "GNU's Not UNIX" -  Richard Stallman

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#6 2016-03-31 00:03:16

Alad
Wiki Admin/IRC Op/TU
From: Bagelstan
Registered: 2014-05-04
Posts: 1,874
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Re: Microsoft is building a "reverse WINE"

Too bad we don't get to look at the code... would be interesting to see how it works.


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#7 2016-03-31 01:16:13

Earnestly
Member
Registered: 2011-08-18
Posts: 805

Re: Microsoft is building a "reverse WINE"

Needs more information, I really dislike this "tech journalism", all hype and no substance.

Last edited by Earnestly (2016-03-31 01:18:45)

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#8 2016-03-31 01:22:58

MCSH
Member
Registered: 2016-03-29
Posts: 14

Re: Microsoft is building a "reverse WINE"

Still, windows 10 has a buggy base and it will be a huge pain to work in it.

My 'beefy' system actually freezes for up to a minute or two during normal usage of win10. Microsoft needs to prioritize solving existing problems over adding new features.


Sajjad Heydari

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#9 2016-03-31 02:31:53

headkase
Member
Registered: 2011-12-06
Posts: 1,831

Re: Microsoft is building a "reverse WINE"

MCSH wrote:

Still, windows 10 has a buggy base and it will be a huge pain to work in it.

My 'beefy' system actually freezes for up to a minute or two during normal usage of win10. Microsoft needs to prioritize solving existing problems over adding new features.

I run Windows 10 on my main gaming machine and it works fine.  I also do maintenance on three other Windows 10 machines.  They run fine too.  I'm not saying that your system doesn't have issues I'm just saying that with 277 million installations of Windows 10 so far 0.01% is still a lot of machines.

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#10 2016-03-31 03:09:58

TheChickenMan
Member
From: United States
Registered: 2015-07-25
Posts: 353

Re: Microsoft is building a "reverse WINE"

MCSH wrote:

Still, windows 10 has a buggy base and it will be a huge pain to work in it.

My 'beefy' system actually freezes for up to a minute or two during normal usage of win10. Microsoft needs to prioritize solving existing problems over adding new features.

Fixing stuff under the hood doesn't translate well in advertising and thus does not sell new software like adding new, often unnecessary, features.


If quantum mechanics hasn't profoundly shocked you, you haven't understood it yet.
Niels Bohr

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#11 2016-03-31 03:59:51

ewaller
Administrator
From: Pasadena, CA
Registered: 2009-07-13
Posts: 16,282

Re: Microsoft is building a "reverse WINE"

Remember (not aimed at anyone in particular) : https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Fo … ng_systems

No real transgressions thus far.  Just a suggestion smile

Last edited by ewaller (2016-03-31 04:01:15)


Nothing is too wonderful to be true, if it be consistent with the laws of nature -- Michael Faraday
Sometimes it is the people no one can imagine anything of who do the things no one can imagine. -- Alan Turing
---
How to Ask Questions the Smart Way

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#12 2016-03-31 04:30:34

Docbroke
Member
From: India
Registered: 2015-06-13
Posts: 1,119

Re: Microsoft is building a "reverse WINE"

ayekat wrote:

I would have preferred them switching Windows to a Unix(-like) subsystem like Apple did with OS 9 → OS X.


No, let windows be windows, it attracts all virus-programmers away from linux lol


EDIT: on second/deeper thought, looks like canonical and microsoft are now going hand in hand, we may even see closed source version on ubunt soon.

Last edited by Docbroke (2016-03-31 05:42:58)


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#13 2016-03-31 05:33:08

der_joachim
Member
From: the Netherlands
Registered: 2008-12-17
Posts: 141
Website

Re: Microsoft is building a "reverse WINE"

Hmmm... Tomorrow is April Fools' Day, so do not get your hopes up.


Geek, runner, motorcyclist and professional know-it-all

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#14 2016-03-31 07:46:03

phw
Member
Registered: 2013-05-27
Posts: 303

Re: Microsoft is building a "reverse WINE"

My personal theory is actually that MS does not really care about people coming from or leaving to Linux. Rather they are concerned that developers are switching to OS X due to OS X offering all advantages of a Unix System paired with a nice UI. Windows 10 arguably already has a nice UI, but MS needs to provide some working Unix environment.

As I have to do a part of my work in a Windows environment this is actually interesting for me, although I must see whether it does provide any benefits above using msys bash, cygwin or the like. It definitely won't lure me into the Windows world, but maybe makes my experience there less painful big_smile

EDIT: The best information with most substance I have found about this is http://blog.dustinkirkland.com/2016/03/ … s.html?m=1

Last edited by phw (2016-03-31 07:47:40)

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#15 2016-03-31 08:49:40

MCSH
Member
Registered: 2016-03-29
Posts: 14

Re: Microsoft is building a "reverse WINE"

headkase wrote:
MCSH wrote:

Still, windows 10 has a buggy base and it will be a huge pain to work in it.

My 'beefy' system actually freezes for up to a minute or two during normal usage of win10. Microsoft needs to prioritize solving existing problems over adding new features.

I run Windows 10 on my main gaming machine and it works fine.  I also do maintenance on three other Windows 10 machines.  They run fine too.  I'm not saying that your system doesn't have issues I'm just saying that with 277 million installations of Windows 10 so far 0.01% is still a lot of machines.

I agree, it works great on many systems, no arguing that. Still many users (including me) are experiencing issues and they aren't really doing anything about it.

TheChickenMan wrote:
MCSH wrote:

Still, windows 10 has a buggy base and it will be a huge pain to work in it.

My 'beefy' system actually freezes for up to a minute or two during normal usage of win10. Microsoft needs to prioritize solving existing problems over adding new features.

Fixing stuff under the hood doesn't translate well in advertising and thus does not sell new software like adding new, often unnecessary, features.

So true.


Sajjad Heydari

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#16 2016-03-31 11:22:20

grensjo
Member
Registered: 2016-03-27
Posts: 1

Re: Microsoft is building a "reverse WINE"

This video explains some more technical details about this: https://channel9.msdn.com/Events/Build/2016/C906

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#17 2016-03-31 11:40:54

chickenPie4tea
Member
Registered: 2012-08-21
Posts: 309

Re: Microsoft is building a "reverse WINE"

I hope this doesn't mean malware writers will start to write more crap for linux systems


You can like linux without becoming a fanatic!

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#18 2016-03-31 21:16:19

Jristz
Member
From: America/Santiago
Registered: 2011-06-11
Posts: 1,020

Re: Microsoft is building a "reverse WINE"

der_joachim wrote:

Hmmm... Tomorrow is April Fools' Day, so do not get your hopes up.

Let hope Arch do something this year.


And for the Windows thing... lets hope this not backfired like fire, I heard Canonical is on the hood.


Well, I suppose that this is somekind of signature, no?

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#19 2016-04-05 04:18:12

Archeon
Member
Registered: 2016-03-09
Posts: 41

Re: Microsoft is building a "reverse WINE"

I wonder what is in this for Canonical.  It's a huge benefit to Microsoft, but it seems to me that Canonical is getting the short end of the stick.  I can't help but expect Microsoft to screw them over at some point like they always do.  Anyone care to comment on why this is or isn't worth it for Canonical?  Looking forward to your opinions.
sidenode: relevant meme

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#20 2016-04-05 12:43:47

Earnestly
Member
Registered: 2011-08-18
Posts: 805

Re: Microsoft is building a "reverse WINE"

A comment on LWN I think summarises the situation quite neatly (although discussing the Mono MIT relicense): http://lwn.net/Articles/682123/

There's also leaked information suggesting that "Windows 10" will eventually rebrand to just "Windows" as it transitions to a service, they're already experimenting with this by including ads in the startmenu and lockscreen.

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#21 2016-04-19 07:49:46

triforce
Member
From: United Kingdom
Registered: 2013-07-02
Posts: 12
Website

Re: Microsoft is building a "reverse WINE"

Archeon wrote:

I wonder what is in this for Canonical.  It's a huge benefit to Microsoft, but it seems to me that Canonical is getting the short end of the stick.  I can't help but expect Microsoft to screw them over at some point like they always do.  Anyone care to comment on why this is or isn't worth it for Canonical?  Looking forward to your opinions.
sidenode: relevant meme

Perhaps there is a nice chunk of money involved?

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#22 2016-04-19 08:18:46

satanselbow
Member
Registered: 2011-06-15
Posts: 538

Re: Microsoft is building a "reverse WINE"

triforce wrote:

Perhaps there is a nice chunk of money involved?

History tells us that it is only likely to be a short term sweetener wrapped in a massive code theft and future induistry crushing digital rights law suits ... but what does history know about anything... ever... It's not like it's happened before or anything...

Consume... Claim... Cock up...

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#23 2016-04-19 08:37:49

triforce
Member
From: United Kingdom
Registered: 2013-07-02
Posts: 12
Website

Re: Microsoft is building a "reverse WINE"

satanselbow wrote:
triforce wrote:

Perhaps there is a nice chunk of money involved?

History tells us that it is only likely to be a short term sweetener wrapped in a massive code theft and future induistry crushing digital rights law suits ... but what does history know about anything... ever... It's not like it's happened before or anything...

Consume... Claim... Cock up...

I would expect nothing less from Microsoft...

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#24 2016-04-19 13:27:35

headkase
Member
Registered: 2011-12-06
Posts: 1,831

Re: Microsoft is building a "reverse WINE"

Richard Stallman has a post on the subject: When Free Software Depends on Nonfree.

Stallman is on one side of a fanatical extreme, however in a very large portion of cases he ends up being right.

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#25 2016-04-19 13:28:49

Trilby
Inspector Parrot
Registered: 2011-11-29
Posts: 20,475
Website

Re: Microsoft is building a "reverse WINE"

Reminder, we're getting a bit off the productive path in the last three posts (edit: the three before headkase's ... we cross posted).


"UNIX is simple and coherent..." - Dennis Ritchie, "GNU's Not UNIX" -  Richard Stallman

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