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#1 2016-09-06 06:20:46

Hund
Member
From: Sweden
Registered: 2010-03-22
Posts: 469
Website

Why isn't Arch Linux on Patreon?

Why is the only way to donate to Arch Linux via some unknown suspicious looking website? I mean, not even PayPal? Anyway, I'd bet a lot more people would donate to the Arch Linux project if you where on a popular and know site like Patreon.

Well, I hope you guys at least consider the idea with Patreon. I know you would have at least one monthly supporter there. big_smile

Official website: https://patreon.com
Wikipedia article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patreon

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#2 2016-09-06 07:56:58

ngoonee
Forum Fellow
From: Between Thailand and Singapore
Registered: 2009-03-17
Posts: 7,164

Re: Why isn't Arch Linux on Patreon?

Hund wrote:

Not all change is progress

Patreon is fairly new, Arch has been around for much longer than that. Nothing wrong with the suggestion itself, but the whole attitude of 'suspicious looking website' is uncalled for. Especially when you're talking about a niche distro (if all those involved with Arch simply went to the popular option Arch wouldn't exist, no?).

Oh, and the fact that this isn't the best place to discuss such a thing since the people who may want to do something about it aren't really around the forums much. Try the mailing list.


Allan-Volunteer on the (topic being discussed) mailn lists. You never get the people who matters attention on the forums.
jasonwryan-Installing Arch is a measure of your literacy. Maintaining Arch is a measure of your diligence. Contributing to Arch is a measure of your competence.
Griemak-Bleeding edge, not bleeding flat. Edge denotes falls will occur from time to time. Bring your own parachute.

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#3 2016-09-06 08:24:50

Awebb
Member
Registered: 2010-05-06
Posts: 5,196

Re: Why isn't Arch Linux on Patreon?

Suspicious? First and foremost, asking for PayPal disqualifies you from the "suspicious" debate in my eyes. You need to do some research, asap!

Okay, let's see what bothers me with patreon:

On clickandpledge.com, all scripts reside somewhere under the main domain name and I see a website. On patreon.com, all I see is a blank white page, but I also see four cookies being deployed and four javascript items running. If I whitelist cloudflare as a possibly "safe" CDN, even more pops up. The list of CDN, ad servers and external metrics is so long, I have to scroll the list. They're all in, Facebook, Google, you name it. We'd have to warn our users in a text box next to the link. If clickandpledge looks suspicious to you, then you need to calibrate your compass. The site is clean, there is no bloat and no fluff, no ads, no tracking, no bullshit. If I read something like this ...

clickandpledge.com wrote:

THIS IS A 256-BIT SECURE TRANSACTION
Your credit card information is being processed by Click & Pledge.  Click & Pledge does not give or sell information to any third party organizations. To receive a detailed review of our privacy statement, please visit our TRUSTe approved Privacy Statement.

... then my first impulse is not to think, that this is a very elaborate ruse to gain my trust by saying the things I want to hear. Furthermore, I do not need an account. The only problem with the site is, that only credit cards are being accepted, that's a bit "US centric", if anything. In case anything goes wrong, it's no more or less hassle, than it would be with any online purchase with a credit card. In contrast, on patreon.com, I have to create an account and read through pages of TOS/EULA and third party information, to even consider paying anything.

When I go to clickandpledge.com/About/ I find the following:

Click & Pledge is headquartered in Blacksburg, Virginia & is a registered corporation in Canada, Great Britain, Hong Kong & India.

    US: Click & Pledge, 2200 Kraft Drive, Suite 1175, Blacksburg, Virginia 24060, USA
    Canada: 2416 Main St., Suite 398, Vancouver, BC. V5T 3E2
    India: PaaS Technologies, Pvt. Ltd., 7A, Vaishnavi Cynosure, Telecom Nagar, Gachibowli Flyover, Gachibowli, Hyderabad – 500032.
    Great Britain: Herschel House, 58 Herschel Street, Slough, Berkshire, SL1 1PG, UK
    Hong Kong: TBA

If I click on www.patreon.com/about, all I see is a wall of faces, but no legal information. I still have no clue, who or what I'm dealing with. There is no address, no phone number, nothing. If you hover over one of those faces, you'll get a name, a parody on a job description and a quote. I couldn't find actual information on who I'm dealing with withing the page without creating an account. The only way to contact them, seems to be through an external mail form. You have to dive through their "Terms of Use", to find a couple of generic email addresses and - of course - some legal location for copyright situations:

www.patreon.com/legal wrote:

Copyright Agent
Patreon, Inc.
230 9th Street
San Francisco, CA 94103
copyright@patreon.com

There is no word on the actual registered seat of the company, this can or cannot be it, it's possible, that this is only their "Copyright Agent". Speaking of suspicious...

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#4 2016-09-06 09:01:05

Hund
Member
From: Sweden
Registered: 2010-03-22
Posts: 469
Website

Re: Why isn't Arch Linux on Patreon?

ngoonee wrote:
Hund wrote:

Not all change is progress

Patreon is fairly new, Arch has been around for much longer than that. Nothing wrong with the suggestion itself, but the whole attitude of 'suspicious looking website' is uncalled for. Especially when you're talking about a niche distro (if all those involved with Arch simply went to the popular option Arch wouldn't exist, no?).

Oh, and the fact that this isn't the best place to discuss such a thing since the people who may want to do something about it aren't really around the forums much. Try the mailing list.

My apologies. I didn't mean to disrespect anyone.

Awebb wrote:

Suspicious? First and foremost, asking for PayPal disqualifies you from the "suspicious" debate in my eyes. You need to do some research, asap!

Okay, let's see what bothers me with patreon:

On clickandpledge.com, all scripts reside somewhere under the main domain name and I see a website. On patreon.com, all I see is a blank white page, but I also see four cookies being deployed and four javascript items running. If I whitelist cloudflare as a possibly "safe" CDN, even more pops up. The list of CDN, ad servers and external metrics is so long, I have to scroll the list. They're all in, Facebook, Google, you name it. We'd have to warn our users in a text box next to the link. If clickandpledge looks suspicious to you, then you need to calibrate your compass. The site is clean, there is no bloat and no fluff, no ads, no tracking, no bullshit. If I read something like this ...

clickandpledge.com wrote:

THIS IS A 256-BIT SECURE TRANSACTION
Your credit card information is being processed by Click & Pledge.  Click & Pledge does not give or sell information to any third party organizations. To receive a detailed review of our privacy statement, please visit our TRUSTe approved Privacy Statement.

... then my first impulse is not to think, that this is a very elaborate ruse to gain my trust by saying the things I want to hear. Furthermore, I do not need an account. The only problem with the site is, that only credit cards are being accepted, that's a bit "US centric", if anything. In case anything goes wrong, it's no more or less hassle, than it would be with any online purchase with a credit card. In contrast, on patreon.com, I have to create an account and read through pages of TOS/EULA and third party information, to even consider paying anything.

When I go to clickandpledge.com/About/ I find the following:

Click & Pledge is headquartered in Blacksburg, Virginia & is a registered corporation in Canada, Great Britain, Hong Kong & India.

    US: Click & Pledge, 2200 Kraft Drive, Suite 1175, Blacksburg, Virginia 24060, USA
    Canada: 2416 Main St., Suite 398, Vancouver, BC. V5T 3E2
    India: PaaS Technologies, Pvt. Ltd., 7A, Vaishnavi Cynosure, Telecom Nagar, Gachibowli Flyover, Gachibowli, Hyderabad – 500032.
    Great Britain: Herschel House, 58 Herschel Street, Slough, Berkshire, SL1 1PG, UK
    Hong Kong: TBA

If I click on www.patreon.com/about, all I see is a wall of faces, but no legal information. I still have no clue, who or what I'm dealing with. There is no address, no phone number, nothing. If you hover over one of those faces, you'll get a name, a parody on a job description and a quote. I couldn't find actual information on who I'm dealing with withing the page without creating an account. The only way to contact them, seems to be through an external mail form. You have to dive through their "Terms of Use", to find a couple of generic email addresses and - of course - some legal location for copyright situations:

www.patreon.com/legal wrote:

Copyright Agent
Patreon, Inc.
230 9th Street
San Francisco, CA 94103
copyright@patreon.com

There is no word on the actual registered seat of the company, this can or cannot be it, it's possible, that this is only their "Copyright Agent". Speaking of suspicious...

I don't know much about PayPal or Patreon, but I know they're popular sites and used by 'everyone'. So I assumed they're OK sites, but once again, I might have been to naive. smile Here in Sweden we use our banks and not third party sites like PayPal for pretty much everything. I have only used PayPal a handful of times when I bought things like cheap phone cases from Hong Kong.

Last edited by Hund (2016-09-06 09:01:56)

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#5 2016-09-06 09:46:56

Awebb
Member
Registered: 2010-05-06
Posts: 5,196

Re: Why isn't Arch Linux on Patreon?

Hund wrote:

Here in Sweden we use our banks and not third party sites like PayPal for pretty much everything. I have only used PayPal a handful of times when I bought things like cheap phone cases from Hong Kong.

Same here in Germany. PayPal is somewhat popular among the younger internet-folks, credit cards are often used by people who travel a lot. I personally refuse to use anything, that doesn't offer the traditional local payment methods and that does not even include credit cards. In the rare occasion I want to use a credit card, I buy one of the anonymous and limited to 100€/month credit cards at a gas station. So far, I've only used this to book cheap flights to the UK (You actually can get from Germany to the UK for <20€) and to buy game bundles on humblebundle.com. The rest has either a German branch, has EU business partners to allow locally accepted payment methods (gog.com being a good example), or they sell their own prepaid cards in stores (Steam, Playstation Network, Google Play).

EDIT:

To make one thing clear: You have offended or disrespected nobody. You made a proposal and got honest input. If anything, you should feel good about yourself for caring enough to propose an alternative donation system.

Last edited by Awebb (2016-09-06 09:59:44)

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