Open source is getting more mainstream

profoX · 2006-05-29 22:59:15

Something that I have noticed the latest years is that my friends start using open source alternatives, rather than looking for cracks for their expensive downloaded programs

This is a big step forward.

Yesterday, a friend of mine told me he was really happy that I pointed him to "audacity".

They always say open source isn't as good as expensive programs, but hey, it works, doesn't it, audacity can do the same as audition and for free.

I had a little smile on my face

Another friend of my desperately wants to try out linux, but he is expecting it to run flawlessly the very first time. (He is just sick of windowsxp crashing on his laptop, thats why he wants to try linux)
I am considering SuSE or Kubuntu for him (probably going to be Kubuntu) Archlinux is really not for him, not yet

Anyway, just some ranting about open source getting more mainstream Hooray!

test1000 · 2006-05-30 15:25:45

Suse or Kubuntu etc is only if he want a windows replacement no? if he's going to be tweaking it will be much easier to do it with archlinux without the whole system falling apart, am i right?

Even so, i think he might be more happy with frugalware. It have the excellent pacman 3, while trying to be easy also for the newbie. Or maybe just archlinux, once he gets it running it should be alright...

profoX · 2006-05-30 16:56:51

He just wants a windows replacement. And I want to prove to him that linux can be
1) just as easy as windows
2) faster than windows
3) never any problems

Gullible Jones · 2006-05-30 20:11:14

1) sure
2) depends on the setup
3) not possible in this universe

rayjgu3 · 2006-05-30 21:23:26

why not set him up with arch ?
make him do the install & configure under your supervision
thats what i do with friends who WANT linux
1st i tell them your GONNA DO SOME LEARNING
if your gonna call me every time you have problems & expect me to fix it
its gonna co$t , if youre willing to learn i will
guide you through your journey grasshopper

i would also give them a live cd or 2 of diffrent distros
find out which one they like
i used to go mandrake , suse , (k}ubuntu
now i have them jump in with both feet to arch (the ones willing to learn)
the others well they tend to just use the cds or usb (slax or puppy with usb)

kensai · 2006-05-30 21:41:20

Well I can second that, since my Dad installed FC5 in a 2nd Hard Drive he has in his pc, I have been using Linux for 2 1/2 and he has never installed Linux even if I told him too, he is an avid computer user since he's been working with computers for more than 20 years. When this month Linux Magazine came with the FC5 DVD he told me "I'll install this on another HDD and see how it works." That day came yesterday and everything is going fine.

Not only this but I have some friends at University playing with Linux. Some of my professors are well aware of Linux too and have tried many live cds, and thanks to one of my professors 2 1/2 years ago he motivated me to use Linux. I didn't even knew what Linux was and he told to the class: "There is an OS that many people are not aware of right now but it is more powerful than Windows, it's called Linux." From that day on I downloaded Red Hat 9.

ralvez · 2006-05-30 21:51:53

I have made an "experiment" with my daughter (14 years old) ... I set her up with Kubuntu (now for about 6 mouths), and she has been using it without problems for her every day school work.
I find that even things like mounting and un-mounting a disk or drive becomes second nature when you do not have a "previous concept" on an operating system like Windows. In fact, the little experience she had of Windows was helpful to her for the concept of a GUI was not foreign to her.
I think that introducing young people to Linux is not hard at all ... I do find it harder to convince co-workers and managers to "jump" into OS.
My next step with my daughter is to introduce her to Arch over her school break ... we will see how it works.

augustob · 2006-05-31 01:01:14

ralvez wrote:

My next step with my daughter is to introduce her to Arch over her school break ... we will see how it works.

I agreed with everything you've said, until this; unless you're expecting her to tweak the ramdisk or start making pkgbuilds, how is it going to be any different? KDE is KDE is KDE, or am I missing something?

Also a comment to the people touting Linux to be just as easy as Windows: Whenever I sit in a Windows machine, I'm lost. It took me an hour to get the wireless card in Ad-hoc mode, wishing I could iwconfig it right. Also, I know a lot of Windows users that would do it in 30s. Does that make Linux easier? No. The 30s guys would take the same hour or more in Linux.

The problem is not that one is easier than the other; the problem is that the migration from one to the other is a paradigm shift that takes time and willingness and I'd be hard pressed to find a person that has both to spare. The same difficulty I had using Windows is found on the other way around.

The only way I'd accept someone calling OS Y easier than OS Z is if they gave random everyday tasks to people with no previous notion of desktop computing and measured the time it took them to complete them.

ralvez · 2006-05-31 01:22:52

augustob,

I agreed with everything you've said, until this; unless you're expecting her to tweak the ramdisk or start making pkgbuilds, how is it going to be any different? KDE is KDE is KDE, or am I missing something?

Well, there are some differences as a matter of fact that in my oppinion can make a difference (for a kid).
1. The Ubuntu/kubuntu camp has a built in "update/upgrade system" and it uses a GUI. Arch does not.
2. KDE, I agree, is KDE but in Ubuntu there a bunch of little GUI tools that make basic maintenance a bit easier. Arch has none of these things.
3. In Ubuntu/Kubuntu you have to use sudo. Arch supports sudo but you do not HAVE to use it as a defacto standard.

I realize these are but small things, (I hope ) and I believe that once you are confortable enoght with the environment the introduction of the command line (at a reduced level, naturally) is beneficial.
I'n not trying to make a CS out of the kid, just to give her skills that will provide her a level of confort with the *nix environment that if she chooses to know more she should be able to "progress on her own" overtime.

Whenever I sit in a Windows machine, I'm lost.

funny you would say that ... me too. Especially if I have to troubleshoot because I cannot find any tools like the ones I'm used to

profoX · 2006-05-31 09:41:03

I think I am going to get him an USB2.0 Live Kubuntu OS, enhanced with some software he may need and a GUI updater/installer (synaptic probably)

Why not Archlinux? He isn't interested in how things work and he is never going to want to work with config files. It is too confusing for him. Maybe he will get interested later, but he only wants a distro that works, where he can easily change/install some things in a GUI and where he can watch movies or write documents.

Funny. His winxp laptop just crashed again in class, right now. Muhahaha He can't boot it anymore.

augustob · 2006-05-31 11:23:48

ralvez wrote:

1. The Ubuntu/kubuntu camp has a built in "update/upgrade system" and it uses a GUI. Arch does not.
2. KDE, I agree, is KDE but in Ubuntu there a bunch of little GUI tools that make basic maintenance a bit easier. Arch has none of these things.
3. In Ubuntu/Kubuntu you have to use sudo. Arch supports sudo but you do not HAVE to use it as a defacto standard.

Agreed. I wrongly assumed she wouldn't be doing these kinds of tasks. And these GUI tools Ubuntu provides, are they any good? Like my-mom-can-install-a-printer-just-like-in-windows good?

ralvez · 2006-05-31 11:47:40

Well ... the add program thing is OK. You can query for a program that say, her friend told her about, and it will find and install it. It has an update monitor,for example, and if it turns red she knows that show "has" to run it in order to be "safe" and grab the latest software features and security patches.
The network "tool" that allows her to find samba shares is on by default and so on.
The printer though (did you have to pick the one that did not work? :shock: ) was not that great. I have a network printer and I had to fuzz a bit to get her machine to work, while in mine it was just a snap.
In my opinion (now you are going to call me geek), Arch is friendly as an OS "after" you have the GUI up and running.
Think of it ... how hard is it to type pacman -Syu twice a week?
I concede that the set up part can be a bit a of challenge for a nuby but the wiki is good and the forums very responsive ... that is more than you get "by default" in many other distros.
I would also rate the Arch community as extremely friendly and ready to help ... I mean, for a kid (actually anyone) that should be a real bonus.

profoX · 2006-05-31 12:18:25

There's indeed alot of friendly Archlinux people, but I have also met a few "unfriendly veterans"

Archlinux, after installed/configured, runs pretty good. Everything is fine as long as you don't run testing or unstable as a beginner.

The amount of GUI tools for archlinux is minimal. And it's just the KISS way. I love the config files. Although I do prefer a GUI configuration tool for some specific tasks/programs where it can be handy to have a visual representation of things.

I am probably going to try to improve Archlinux' GUI anyway. (Not officially, just for myself, and I might release it in a repo/pkgbuilds if its good) GUI config tools are a bad idea imho, so I won't make things like that. There is enough that you can find to configure your programs in KDE/Gnome/whatever packages.

arooaroo · 2006-05-31 12:29:30

profoX wrote:

I think I am going to get him an USB2.0 Live Kubuntu OS, enhanced with some software he may need and a GUI updater/installer (synaptic probably)
Why not Archlinux? He isn't interested in how things work and he is never going to want to work with config files. It is too confusing for him. Maybe he will get interested later, but he only wants a distro that works, where he can easily change/install some things in a GUI and where he can watch movies or write documents.

Arch doesn't have these available officially, but there are plenty of pacman frontends now. Apparantly there's one called Jacman that looks alright

I don't think you *need* to be worried about how things work and config files to use pacman, mind. It works a treat out-of-the-box.

profoX · 2006-05-31 12:39:13

Sure, and I tried *your* pacman frontend out too, just for testing. It is pretty good. It keeps alot of functionality in its GUI. I prefer to use pacman on the cli, though.

Most of my friends aren't very smart and I want to give them a Linux distro that is pleasing to the eyes and that has alot of functionality. And where all configuration and applications are accessible in a GUI.

I was thinking about creating an USB2.0 distribution. (you are able to boot usb devices on modern laptops, right?) Might be Archlinux then. (enhanced version of archie maybe?)

lumiwa · 2006-06-01 18:03:53

My opinion is that for now there are no Linux for masses. People expected that computer when it started RUN and they are just use it. This is reallity.
And when Linux will be like i wrote above than companies will start selling it (Unix was (is) expensive Os)

Gullible Jones · 2006-06-01 19:03:02

Umm... Some distros are already done over that way, and large companies are already selling them. SuSE, anyone? Mandriva? Xandros?

lumiwa · 2006-06-01 19:48:30

Gullible Jones wrote:

Umm... Some distros are already done over that way, and large companies are already selling them. SuSE, anyone? Mandriva? Xandros?

Yes but you can download still for free...but in the future...

jakob · 2006-06-02 08:17:58

Though I don't think Ubuntu will go morce commercial than it is already, I believe they will always cost less than Windows!!

Vista for 200 Euro ????

profoX · 2006-06-02 11:37:42

In essence, Ubuntu IS free, and it will STAY free

Ubuntu.com wrote:

the Ubuntu Philosophy: that software should be available free of charge, that software tools should be usable by people in their local language and despite any disabilities, and that people should have the freedom to customise and alter their software in whatever way they see fit.

lumiwa · 2006-06-02 16:42:50

profoX wrote:

In essence, Ubuntu IS free, and it will STAY free
Ubuntu.com wrote:
the Ubuntu Philosophy: that software should be available free of charge, that software tools should be usable by people in their local language and despite any disabilities, and that people should have the freedom to customise and alter their software in whatever way they see fit.

When, SuSE for example or maybe Arch put on the market Linux version which will be user friendly to install and what is important, recognize hardwaere which person has in computer than will start comercial Linux. Now for example I have a printer Lexmark z24 which I spent one (1) hour to set up but brother who has Windows spent few minutes.

profoX · 2006-06-02 16:49:53

SuSE and Ubuntu already have very good hardware recognition and GUI tools/installers. They both provide commercial support. But it will ALWAYS be free, in essence. You can always get free support of the community too.

sweiss · 2006-06-02 16:50:34

As much as I enjoy using Linux, I'm not sure it's ready for everyday use. Kwin crashed on me today, for example, for no apparent reason. And I keep finding a lot of simple and obvious bugs.

There's a lack of QA when it comes to OSS. However because most of it are volunteers working for no pay, I've no solution. I don't think QA is something people would do for fun.

profoX · 2006-06-02 16:51:38

There are companies that are investing though (Novell, Redhat, Ubuntu)

sweiss · 2006-06-02 16:53:55

This is true. I'd really like to try and see how a corporate Linux looks like nowadays. My last experience was with RH9 which was pretty good, and with Mandrake 9.1 which was down right awful.

But I really don't feel like messing with a new distro, I like to feel home, like I do with Arch.

Arch Linux

#1 2006-05-29 22:59:15

Open source is getting more mainstream

#2 2006-05-30 15:25:45

Re: Open source is getting more mainstream

#3 2006-05-30 16:56:51

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#4 2006-05-30 20:11:14

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#5 2006-05-30 21:23:26

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#6 2006-05-30 21:41:20

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#7 2006-05-30 21:51:53

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#8 2006-05-31 01:01:14

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