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#1 2006-06-01 19:42:12

Moo-Crumpus
Member
From: Hessen / Germany
Registered: 2003-12-01
Posts: 1,444

how to install on a software raid with dmraid?

In linux 2.4 the ATARAID kernel framework provided support for Fake Raid (software RAID assisted by the BIOS). For linux 2.6 the device-mapper framework can do, among other nice things like LVM and EVMS, the same kind of work as ATARAID in 2.4. While the new code handling the RAID's I/O still runs in the kernel, device-mapper stuff is generally configured by a userspace application. It was clear that when using the device-mapper for RAID, detection would go to userspace.

Heinz Maulshagen created the dmraid tool to detect RAID sets and create mappings for them. The controllers supported are (mostly cheap) Fake-RAID IDE / SATA controllers which have BIOS functions on it. Most common ones are: Promise Fasttrack controllers as well as HPT 37x, Intel, VIA and LSI. Also serial ata RAID controllers like Silicon Image Medley and Nvidia Nforce are supported by the program.

I would like to ask if someone out there managed to set up a raid machine with dmraid, and I am asking for a full raid setup, nothing like raid for /home only.


Frumpus addict
[mu'.krum.pus], [frum.pus]

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#2 2007-04-08 11:25:27

BlackTiger
Member
Registered: 2007-04-08
Posts: 2

Re: how to install on a software raid with dmraid?

Hi,

I have a NVidia Raid 0 Array and the only way to use this nvraid with linux is dmraid.

Sadly dmraid isn't on the Install CD and I haven't found a way to install Arch Linux on this system yet sad

It would be awesome if someone managed to install Arch using dmraid or if someone could provide us with a modified Install CD that has dmraid.

Edit: Sorry for posting in this old topic but nothing has changed since this topic was started ...

Thanks
BlackTiger

Last edited by BlackTiger (2007-04-08 11:26:37)

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#3 2007-04-10 11:31:38

astrocrep
Member
Registered: 2006-06-02
Posts: 34

Re: how to install on a software raid with dmraid?

Why use DMRaid... its just a software raid implementation anyway...

Ive disabled raid support in my bios, but using mdadm have a Raptor Raid 0 array where arch is installed... runs great and very very fast.

Also its easy to do, and requires nothing but the boot cd...

Did this with an NF4 and an NF680i.

-Rich


HP DM1Z-4100 // 11.6" LED 1366x768 // 1.65ghz AMD E-450 // 4gb Ram // 320gb hdd // ATI 6320 // 100% Archlinux

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#4 2007-04-10 12:31:32

STiAT
Member
From: Vienna, Austria
Registered: 2004-12-23
Posts: 603

Re: how to install on a software raid with dmraid?

Same as i did @ astrocrep

The nvraid is nothing else than a bios software raid, which anyway uses the processor for raid tasks. Normal hardware raids have a own cpu for raid tasks, that's the difference.

If you disable nvraid in your bios, you can use the archwiki guide to setup arch using software raid.
ArchWiki: Installing with Software RAID or LVM

Kind regards,
STi


Ability is nothing without opportunity.

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#5 2007-05-27 10:16:19

BlackTiger
Member
Registered: 2007-04-08
Posts: 2

Re: how to install on a software raid with dmraid?

Basically you are right,

but there are people (like me) who are using MultiBoot (f.e Linux & WinXP).

I can't disable my NVRaid in the BIOS because I am using Windows with the RAID drivers.

Why is it that complicated to include a ~200kb package in the Install CD, it would help lots of users.

DeviceMapper and stuff like that are already included so there is only the need for that tiny dmraid package!

Thanks
BlackTiger

Last edited by BlackTiger (2007-05-27 10:16:52)

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#6 2007-06-29 16:33:05

devilfish13
Member
Registered: 2007-02-13
Posts: 5

Re: how to install on a software raid with dmraid?

what about installing a basic system to a flashdrive or external hard drive, just enough to get the system booting, then installing dmraid on that, and finally just copying over the partitions once the nvraid partition is visible? you'd probably have to chroot and definitely rework your grub config, sure...
would that work? sorry, I'm still a little bit of a n00b, but this might be worth a shot. I want to dmraid/dualboot my box too, right now I'm just about to transition my XP install to raid0, and I'd really rather not be stuck with my arch install on my old, slow IDE backup drive.

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#7 2007-08-08 07:04:40

muttox
Member
From: Australia
Registered: 2006-05-22
Posts: 4

Re: how to install on a software raid with dmraid?

I am in the same boat too (dual booting xp on nvraid) and atm intalling to the raid is a problem, would it really be that hard to throw dmraid onto the boot cd?
ive noticed this is a little old so someone promptly correct me if things have changed


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th1nk 1ns1d3 th3 b0x y0u w0rk w1th

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#8 2007-09-07 19:17:38

quantax
Member
Registered: 2007-08-16
Posts: 24

Re: how to install on a software raid with dmraid?

I would also like too see dmraid in the install ISO.
But wouldn't it be possible to modifiy the ISO and just include the package? Or it you could add it as an addon package to another storage media.
Or are there other steps, like altering init or whatever, that have to be taken too?

Last edited by quantax (2007-09-07 19:32:52)

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#9 2007-09-10 14:24:26

quantax
Member
Registered: 2007-08-16
Posts: 24

Re: how to install on a software raid with dmraid?

Ok, I can get the installer to recognize my RAID-array (stripe).
I simply put the dmraid-package on an external drive and after booting the install disk just ran pacman -U on it. You can use cfdisk normally on it after getting its name by running "ls /dev/mapper/".
Still I'm not sure about mkinitcpio. I think it wouldn't be a bad idea to include dmraid via BINARIES=, but how can I make the INIT run dmraid -ay, and and when: before or after udev?
Any advice? My Unix expertise is not that good.

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#10 2007-10-20 13:25:08

Clunis
Member
Registered: 2007-10-20
Posts: 2

Re: how to install on a software raid with dmraid?

quantax wrote:

Ok, I can get the installer to recognize my RAID-array (stripe).
I simply put the dmraid-package on an external drive and after booting the install disk just ran pacman -U on it. You can use cfdisk normally on it after getting its name by running "ls /dev/mapper/".
Still I'm not sure about mkinitcpio. I think it wouldn't be a bad idea to include dmraid via BINARIES=, but how can I make the INIT run dmraid -ay, and and when: before or after udev?
Any advice? My Unix expertise is not that good.

solved? thank you

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#11 2007-10-23 17:45:30

atomclock
Member
Registered: 2007-05-15
Posts: 18

Re: how to install on a software raid with dmraid?

Clunis wrote:

solved? thank you

Could you explain how you got mkinitcpio to execute "dmraid -ay" so the the partitions at /dev/mapper/xxxxxxx could be mounted?

Thanks

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#12 2007-10-24 20:40:43

uwolfer
Member
Registered: 2006-02-27
Posts: 46

Re: how to install on a software raid with dmraid?

If you are looking for a solution, probably look here: http://bugs.archlinux.org/task/4762
I have added there a PKGBUILD for dmraid. You can load it from network or a usb storage device when the setup has been started. Then install it with pacman. Run dmraid -ay. Then it should appear in /dev/mapper/... Before rebooting the system, install the dmraid package again, this time with pacman --root /mnt/ -U dmraid... After, you need to regenerate the boot image. Before doing so, you should mount /dev, /proc and /sys to /mnt/. You could have a look at the quickinstall script (/arch/quickinstall (or something like that) in order to see how to do this. To regenerate the image, you can just run pacman --root /mnt/ -S kernel26.

That should be all smile Hope it works for you.

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#13 2007-11-08 08:44:56

loosec
Member
Registered: 2007-03-08
Posts: 134

Re: how to install on a software raid with dmraid?

The installprocedure uwolfer created works flawlessly, no ramdisk, no extra bootparameter, just install his package, add 'dmraid' too HOOKS somewhere after sata and remake your initrd.

About installing grub, I solved it by trying to install it from /arch/setup and when it failed I had all the files in the right places and just followed the gentoo-guide on installing grub manually.

Right now my system boots perfectly into both windows xp and archlinux on my nv_sata-controlled raid-stripes.

Working on wiki for this. Thank you for making this extremely simple uwolfer!
Wiki

Probably should mark this [SOLVED]

Last edited by loosec (2007-11-08 12:57:10)

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#14 2007-11-10 19:25:04

loosec
Member
Registered: 2007-03-08
Posts: 134

Re: how to install on a software raid with dmraid?

Just for the record this works fine on Arch 64 aswell.

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#15 2008-01-05 23:01:34

bud
Member
From: swe
Registered: 2006-07-12
Posts: 74

Re: how to install on a software raid with dmraid?

nice work loosec!


Hello, I am normal!

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#16 2008-01-09 08:56:04

flatwhatson
Member
Registered: 2008-01-09
Posts: 3

Re: how to install on a software raid with dmraid?

Can also confirm this works fine for amd64.

It's easy enough to fix the PKGBUILD by hand before compiling, but it would be nice to not have to smile

For those who are having issues (they might exist?) you just need to change the line:

arch=('i686')

to:

arch=('i686' 'x86_64')

Many thanks to uwolfer for his work.

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#17 2008-01-22 14:39:32

loosec
Member
Registered: 2007-03-08
Posts: 134

Re: how to install on a software raid with dmraid?

Wiki now updated since uwolfer merged the install and hook scripts to the aur package.

I've been using dmraid for dualboot with windows now for atleast two months. The only problem I have (could be unrelated) is that sometimes during bootup i get to the recovery console, but when rebooting everything works fine. Could also be related to disc spinup or controller detection order.

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#18 2008-02-09 09:44:12

loosec
Member
Registered: 2007-03-08
Posts: 134

Re: how to install on a software raid with dmraid?

Dmraid magically moved from aur to core, Guide updated.

What would it take to get dmraid support directly from the install iso?

Last edited by loosec (2008-02-09 11:55:44)

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#19 2008-03-13 18:32:11

lilsirecho
Veteran
Registered: 2003-10-24
Posts: 5,000

Re: how to install on a software raid with dmraid?

Loosec;

I see that you have a handle on the dmraid package, recently upgraded I see.

I have an application for raid that does not involve booting with raid, data system only.

I desire to generate an archive for pacman using a raid array for purposes of install speed.

My first attempts used mdadm techniques and provided a software raid of hde and hdg drives which did not produce  an improved hdparm read speed.

What changes to dmraid procedures will provide a non-bootable raid0 system which will archive pacman packages and provide combined raid read speed at least 50% greater than the normal 40MB/sec.?

Performance figures for raid0 with dmraid haven't been available in the forums.  Perhaps these are disappointing?

Basically, how to make a raid0 system  with dmraid but not make it bootable?

EDIT:  Solved my problem with mdadm and mke2fs, fstab entry and /mnt/md entry.

Last edited by lilsirecho (2008-03-14 07:50:00)


Sign of the times: Navajo blanket..made in China
Hard work does not kill people but why risk it: Charlie Mccarthy
A man is not complete until he is married..then..he is finished.
When ALL is lost, what can be found? Even bytes get lonely for a little bit!     X-ray confirms Iam spineless!

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#20 2008-03-14 08:52:04

loosec
Member
Registered: 2007-03-08
Posts: 134

Re: how to install on a software raid with dmraid?

Good thing you solved it, I got quite confused just now.

The Gentoo wiki on dmraid has some figures on performance but it's nowhere near complete.

Since what you did was using fractions of a hdd you're stuck with software RAID, however from what I've read there are no real speed differences between software and bios or even true hardware RAID unless you use some version of checksums like RAID5.

EDIT:
Also some times sucky drivers can kill performance.

Last edited by loosec (2008-03-14 08:52:49)

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#21 2008-03-14 16:13:56

lilsirecho
Veteran
Registered: 2003-10-24
Posts: 5,000

Re: how to install on a software raid with dmraid?

Loosec;

My application is CF/IDE cards which have provided a discless system with raid used in pacman cachedir with read speeds of 77MB/s.  Used in LIVE FaunOS discless system.  Raid is rovided on the mobo a7v333.


Sign of the times: Navajo blanket..made in China
Hard work does not kill people but why risk it: Charlie Mccarthy
A man is not complete until he is married..then..he is finished.
When ALL is lost, what can be found? Even bytes get lonely for a little bit!     X-ray confirms Iam spineless!

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#22 2008-03-15 18:30:38

loosec
Member
Registered: 2007-03-08
Posts: 134

Re: how to install on a software raid with dmraid?

Sounds like a really good idea. Setting up a dmraid set should be alot easier than using software raid. Since you create the raid set in your bios raid setup menu and then use dmraid to detect it. How to make a live-cd system automagically detect it I dont know, next arch iso will fix that from what I've read.

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#23 2012-05-06 11:54:48

mumo
Member
Registered: 2012-05-06
Posts: 22

Re: how to install on a software raid with dmraid?

hi there. i'm quite a noob concerning arch.

i'm just wondering if I could install arch following the "Installing with FAKE RAID"-wiki onto partitions in an EXISTING fake-raid-setup (provided by a previous ubuntu-installation)?!

meaning:

if I follow the steps and rewrite the partition table (marking only previous / and /home for (re-)formatting) will I be able to use/detect/mount the other partitions? or will I run into errors or e.g. problems installing grub?

thank you

Last edited by mumo (2012-05-06 11:55:20)

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