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#1 2006-06-02 17:16:14

twiistedkaos
Member
Registered: 2006-05-20
Posts: 666

My friend... A Windows user !

Today, during our Computer Science Final Exam we came apon a discussion about linux and apparently, out of the 20 people in my CS class I was the only one with any sort of expierience with linux except for my teacher. This is how our conversation went:

Justin - my friend
Josh - me

Josh: So why don't you give linux a try?
Justin: Because, Windows applications are so much better and userfriendly. Why should I switch to something that'll take me hours just to install one program.
Josh: Well, there are programs that can run Windows programs, IE: Wine, it works great and is always being update and developed. If all you're worried about is loosing some of your Windows programs, I am sure wine could run them fine. But, why use windows programs when you can just download linux programs that dot he same thing and many happen to be open source.
Justin: That's the thing, I don't feel like compiling a program just to use it. What if I just feel like testing a program out. It's too much of a hassel to compile, test, then delete it.
Josh: Many distro's offer a package manager of some sort to install binary programs that you want have to compile, That way you can also use the package manager to easily remove it.
Justin: Alright, I just don't want to use Linux. As far as I am concerned it is a loss cause, the chances of it ever being anything big are slim to none. Why install linux when I can just continue using Windows and have everything I ever need working fine, the FIRST time I install it with no hardcore configuration needed.
Josh: Why support a product that doesn't give you customer support? What's the point in that?
Justin: Just shut out about that sucky linux $%!# I don't want to hear about it, nor how good you seem to believe it is. Windows is much better anyways! Now shut up.

End of Conversation

It amazes me on how many people in a Computer Science class didn't even know what linux was, and didn't even want to give it a try because they are afriad of a little configuration.

~Josh

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#2 2006-06-02 17:21:31

Mr Green
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From: U.K.
Registered: 2003-12-21
Posts: 5,893
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Re: My friend... A Windows user !

Its just that many Windows users are set in there ways ....

Linux does not appeal to everyone, but hey thats there loss ;-)

I show people my desktop they say 'where are the icons' or 'no start button'

Your friend will conme round when he finds his system will not run Vista lol


Mr Green

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#3 2006-06-02 17:22:08

Cerebral
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From: Waterloo, ON, CA
Registered: 2005-04-08
Posts: 3,108
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Re: My friend... A Windows user !

Well, your friend does have a point - if he's using a system that works exactly how he wants it to, why would he need or want to change?  He needs to be interested in Linux to want to make the switch, and he's clearly not.  He may be quite misinformed about the way things work in Linux-land, which probably isn't a good thing, but regardless the old motto holds; "If it ain't broke..."

Kinda OT: What year CS are you?

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#4 2006-06-02 17:24:43

twiistedkaos
Member
Registered: 2006-05-20
Posts: 666

Re: My friend... A Windows user !

Cerebral wrote:

Well, your friend does have a point - if he's using a system that works exactly how he wants it to, why would he need or want to change?  He needs to be interested in Linux to want to make the switch, and he's clearly not.  He may be quite misinformed about the way things work in Linux-land, which probably isn't a good thing, but regardless the old motto holds; "If it ain't broke..."

Kinda OT: What year CS are you?

I'm in my 4th year into CS, I'm still a highschool student and our CS only goes up to 4 sinces that's all our teacher has a degree to teach.

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#5 2006-06-02 18:51:49

postlogic
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Registered: 2005-02-24
Posts: 410
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Re: My friend... A Windows user !

One of the main points of a good system that works for each person is that the person themselves doesn't notice the underlying system. It should work and they should feel comfortable using it.

I feel more comfortable in Linux when I do some work because I've got it set up the way I like it. If I could have the same setup in Windows, I probably wouldn't mind having that as well. It's not always about which system you are using, it's about how comfortable you can get in it.

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#6 2006-06-02 19:07:18

lumiwa
Member
Registered: 2005-12-26
Posts: 712

Re: My friend... A Windows user !

And IMO "big problem" for Linux are games. If Linux has just a 30% of games which run under Windows will be much better. Whay so many people use Windows? How many users started with games?
And why they need a Linux and wine...if games run better on Windows?

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#7 2006-06-02 19:36:21

Gullible Jones
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Registered: 2004-12-29
Posts: 4,863

Re: My friend... A Windows user !

twiistedkaos wrote:

Today, during our Computer Science Final Exam we came apon a discussion about linux and apparently, out of the 20 people in my CS class I was the only one with any sort of expierience with linux except for my teacher. This is how our conversation went:

<snip>

That is really, really freakin' weird. Everyone in my CS class seems to be in quite a hurry to run Ubuntu, and there's one running Arch on one of his older boxes (IIRC a server).

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#8 2006-06-02 20:38:28

orestis
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From: Cyprus
Registered: 2006-03-08
Posts: 32

Re: My friend... A Windows user !

twiistedkaos wrote:

I'm in my 4th year into CS, I'm still a highschool student and our CS only goes up to 4 sinces that's all our teacher has a degree to teach.

Things will change if any of your classmates wants to follow CS at the university, atleast this is what i realised from my experience.

I'm studing CS at the university (1st year) and all of the programming courses we have are on unix systems. Now, the coding assignments we have to submit are all tested on the unix systems at the university. Many tried to submit assignments that were tested and were perfectly running on their home Windows system, but they were supprised when they got 0 just because their code did not compiled under unix smile

Now most of my classmates run a linux system at home (most of them live cd's) because they are forced to. Others that just do not want to use any sort of *nix system, spend their days(and nights) on the unix systems at the university, because they don't want to risk failing.

The funny part tho, are the remarks that our instructors make from time to time, about ( quoting their exact words ) "winBlows" and "Windows Exploded".

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#9 2006-06-02 22:27:07

kth5
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Registered: 2004-04-29
Posts: 657
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Re: My friend... A Windows user !

Back when I was still in school, the only thing that was tought to us was how one can install a Windows NT4 system and patch it for security... ehhrm... that was back in '00. security, WTF?

C++ was all Borland. The teachers I've had in front of me told me how bad MS Visual Studio was and how great Borland would improve portability. Well, can I run this on *nix... well, let's start with Linux. Can I? Also around '00.

I would have wished for some Linux related talk back then and tried to force my way through them, with no luck. Nowadays, I let people like Justin talk to my hand or simply ignore them. I won't tell people to switch anymore and second Celebral's opinion that people need to be interested to begin with. I will gladly answer questions and try to help but I will never ever again suggest to switch. It always turned out to be such a waste of time and nerves.


I recognize that while theory and practice are, in theory, the same, they are, in practice, different. -Mark Mitchell

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#10 2006-06-02 22:40:52

twiistedkaos
Member
Registered: 2006-05-20
Posts: 666

Re: My friend... A Windows user !

kth5 wrote:

Back when I was still in school, the only thing that was tought to us was how one can install a Windows NT4 system and patch it for security... ehhrm... that was back in '00. security, WTF?

C++ was all Borland. The teachers I've had in front of me told me how bad MS Visual Studio was and how great Borland would improve portability. Well, can I run this on *nix... well, let's start with Linux. Can I? Also around '00.

I would have wished for some Linux related talk back then and tried to force my way through them, with no luck. Nowadays, I let people like Justin talk to my hand or simply ignore them. I won't tell people to switch anymore and second Celebral's opinion that people need to be interested to begin with. I will gladly answer questions and try to help but I will never ever again suggest to switch. It always turned out to be such a waste of time and nerves.

Hehe, I actually wasn't very interesting in Linux when I started using it. MicroSuck crashed one day and failed to ever boot back up. After 4 1/2 hours of trying to get customer service to reactive my CD Key I got fed up and noticed I had a LinuxXP cd that I downlaoded awhile back(live cd) I poped it in, downloaded Fedora, installed that on my HDD and started to use Linux, I'll proudly say I didn't like Linux one bit when I first started it, but now I'll also proudly say that I am in love with Linux and I don't know how I stayed with microsuck so long anyways! tongue.

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#11 2006-06-03 01:14:41

slackhack
Member
Registered: 2004-06-30
Posts: 738

Re: My friend... A Windows user !

you can see how close-minded most of the windoze users are (must come with the closed source tongue). it's obvious that he had already made up his mind that he wasn't going to try linux no matter what you said, and that's that. he had heard all the anti-linux FUD propaganda, and he had bought into it. game over. his mind isn't even open to any alternative.

it's kind of a like a cult member whose mind is already made up that they have the "truth." there's very little you can say to get through to them at that point. just like the cult member, the windoze user first has to be "deprogrammed" big_smile to break the brainwashing, and only then is there a small chance they'll wake up out of it and actually get a clue. talk about lost causes! tongue

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#12 2006-06-03 01:24:52

slackhack
Member
Registered: 2004-06-30
Posts: 738

Re: My friend... A Windows user !

Mr Green wrote:

Your friend will conme round when he finds his system will not run Vista lol

no, those kinds of people will just go buy new hardware for thou$ands more to match their multi-hundred $ operating system and office suites, and we thrifty linux users will buy up their old stuff for peanuts and run linux on it for the same or better performance that they're getting with their new gear. tongue imagine that, windowz has an upside after all. big_smile

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#13 2006-06-03 02:18:21

twiistedkaos
Member
Registered: 2006-05-20
Posts: 666

Re: My friend... A Windows user !

slackhack wrote:
Mr Green wrote:

Your friend will conme round when he finds his system will not run Vista lol

no, those kinds of people will just go buy new hardware for thou$ands more to match their multi-hundred $ operating system and office suites, and we thrifty linux users will buy up their old stuff for peanuts and run linux on it for the same or better performance that they're getting with their new gear. tongue imagine that, windowz has an upside after all. big_smile

Haha, true enough. I have a backup 500Mhz, 256MB Ram computer that runs Arch as well as my main computer. The 500Mhz's running linux is much faster than it was with Windows smile

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#14 2006-06-03 04:18:29

iphitus
Forum Fellow
From: Melbourne, Australia
Registered: 2004-10-09
Posts: 4,927

Re: My friend... A Windows user !

Justin: Alright, I just don't want to use Linux. As far as I am concerned it is a loss cause, the chances of it ever being anything big are slim to none. Why install linux when I can just continue using Windows and have everything I ever need working fine, the FIRST time I install it with no hardcore configuration needed.

He's got a point there. He's got everything working as he needs to. This is one of those cases where if it aint broke, dont fix it applies. Why remove something that's working and replace it.

Justin: Just shut out about that sucky linux $%!# I don't want to hear about it, nor how good you seem to believe it is. Windows is much better anyways! Now shut up.

His system works, he doesnt want to use linux. sounds like you're annoying him quite a bit about it and pretty much just pissing him off. just respect his decision to not use it and leave him alone.

James

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#15 2006-06-03 08:23:27

FUBAR
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From: Belgium
Registered: 2004-12-08
Posts: 1,029
Website

Re: My friend... A Windows user !

Is your CS education a serious course? Will everybody in it go on to work with computers after it? Or is it just high school? Because if it's the latter, I can understand your mate's  point of view. If it's in college or uni, I think it'd be pretty foolish for an IT'er to not even want to give a look at another OS "because it's a lost cause".


A bus station is where a bus stops.
A train station is where a train stops.
On my desk I have a workstation.

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#16 2006-06-03 14:27:48

twiistedkaos
Member
Registered: 2006-05-20
Posts: 666

Re: My friend... A Windows user !

FUBAR wrote:

Is your CS education a serious course? Will everybody in it go on to work with computers after it? Or is it just high school? Because if it's the latter, I can understand your mate's  point of view. If it's in college or uni, I think it'd be pretty foolish for an IT'er to not even want to give a look at another OS "because it's a lost cause".

Everyone in my CS course takes our class seriously, but in the end it just is a High school course. Most of us in the class hope to become a programmer or anything that has something to do with computers.

iphitus wrote:

His system works, he doesnt want to use linux. sounds like you're annoying him quite a bit about it and pretty much just pissing him off. just respect his decision to not use it and leave him alone.

True, I wasn't really asking him to switch though, just more or less give it a good test run before he made his decision about it.

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#17 2006-06-04 01:10:58

iphitus
Forum Fellow
From: Melbourne, Australia
Registered: 2004-10-09
Posts: 4,927

Re: My friend... A Windows user !

twiistedkaos wrote:
iphitus wrote:

His system works, he doesnt want to use linux. sounds like you're annoying him quite a bit about it and pretty much just pissing him off. just respect his decision to not use it and leave him alone.

True, I wasn't really asking him to switch though, just more or less give it a good test run before he made his decision about it.

He's made his decision, you're just irritating him.

I've managed to convert a few friends. I dont go out there and actively throw CD's at them, I dont bug them to try this, try that, I dont ramble on about it. I just use my system, and they observe that I never have the problems they have. When they see that what I have works, they have a reason to ask, and they do ask, can you help me set that up, and I happily will.

If he doesnt want to use it, he's unlikely to favourably test it out, he'll jump ship at the first sight of a command line, or the first problem, simply because he doesnt want to use it.

James

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#18 2006-06-04 02:43:57

ralvez
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From: Canada
Registered: 2005-12-06
Posts: 1,694
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Re: My friend... A Windows user !

Over the years (now about 18 in the computer's business, desktop and web development) I found that OSes are very much like religion. Once people have embraced something, they are very reluctant to give it up.
I think there are several reasons associated with that:
1) they invested time to learn
2) they invested $$
3) they do not feel inclined to "re-learn" their working habits. This point becomes more significant with the age of the individual.
4) there is a "natural" human aversion toward 'the unknown'
5) pride (who says your OS is better than mine ?!  :evil:  )

The way I introduce my OS to other people is by explaining how to solve a problem "my way". So, say someone is having a problem to connect to the web and he/she asks for my help ... I'll take a look and say something like "does your OS have a command like mii-tool? With that we could easily verify your connection ... " Naturally, they respond "no I do not think so ... what OS do you run?" -- notice that now they are asking -- so I can tell them about my OS and there is no sense of intrusion.

I have been able to convert a couple of people, but like I said, in my experience, the other party needs to be hard pressed against the wall or really ticked at something to go "radical" and change OSes after a casual talk.

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#19 2006-06-05 04:39:29

ScriptDevil
Member
From: In Front of My PC
Registered: 2006-04-06
Posts: 253

Re: My friend... A Windows user !

Is he still a Friend??
I faced similar problems with my class mates. All 16-17 yr olds, me being the youngest. They felt I was just showing off abt linux. I like linux for what it is.
Linux cant get big?? Your friend needs to see a psychiatrist


Be yourself, because you are all that you can be

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#20 2006-06-06 10:22:07

Ipsofacto
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Registered: 2006-04-14
Posts: 25
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Re: My friend... A Windows user !

It would be interesting to see a post in this forum by a windows user entitled, "My friend - An Arch User!!"

Now *that* would generate some lively reading. lol.

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#21 2006-06-06 18:34:29

deficite
Member
From: Augusta, GA
Registered: 2005-06-02
Posts: 693

Re: My friend... A Windows user !

He seemed threatened just hearing you talk about Linux. He got pretty mad pretty quickly too. I guess people are afraid of that which they don't understand wink.

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#22 2006-06-07 12:52:41

palandir
Member
Registered: 2006-05-14
Posts: 73

Re: My friend... A Windows user !

If that dialogue was real, then you're probably really annoying him from time to time with Linux.

The worst way to try to convince stubborn Windows users of Linux is by saying that Linux is better in this area, that area etc... you're probably better off with showing them the Unix and Free Software philosophy and then showing them some quality OSS programs like Firefox, Gimp and so on, which also work on Windows, show them some nice Linux desktop screenshots, show them some cool features, show them how good the Unix command line is, and so on...

The important part is that you
a) don't annoy them
b) introduce the Linux world slowly and from top-to-bottom (don't start by showing your bash and vim skills, they will find it horrible) and from background-to-foreground (ideology, community-centeredness (sp?), choice, etc.)
c) never complain about Windows in the first place if they like it. Leave that for afterwards. If they hate Windows, it's probably OK.

At least that's my opinion, and I was able to convert (so far) 3 typical Windows people to Linux using that kind of approach.

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#23 2006-06-09 01:42:31

rizzix
Member
Registered: 2005-10-22
Posts: 55

Re: My friend... A Windows user !

Umm... as far as simplicity goes, PC-BSD is unbeatable (in the *nix world). I'd recommend that to all windows "switchers" (if they ever decide to switch).

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#24 2006-06-09 06:20:09

DeusExLinux
Member
Registered: 2005-03-18
Posts: 98

Re: My friend... A Windows user !

When it came down to it, here's why I switched to Linux:  I was using all open source software anway, why not the OS.

I do love it (I teach HS English) when I bring my laptop in and students look at the screen and go "whoah, whats that?  mac?"  Some of them are so amazed that there are even alternitives to windows.

I don't go out to actively recruit people though.  People will change if they want.  I won't ever forget when I had to recover some files from someone's broken-unbootable windows machine, and I brought over my external dvd burner and a live-cd and saved everything they might have lost.  They were baffelled that I could run an OS from a cd!

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#25 2006-06-10 12:14:33

idjut
Member
From: Oslo
Registered: 2006-05-15
Posts: 177

Re: My friend... A Windows user !

Its sad that people who work with computers dont know about and is not interested in open source/linux, but I dont go on like a linux evangelist either because it requires some effort to get to use it. There are plug and play distros, many of which are a bit buggy and to fix a bug you need some knowledge or a good community. If people are interested in switching to linux I recommend them ubuntu for install and slax/knoppix if just for the look. I still want to install arch on my family members laptops tho wink


Linux user #403491

"Men have called me mad; but the question is not yet settled, whether madness is or is not the loftiest intelligence– whether much that is glorious– whether all that is profound– does not spring from disease of thought– from moods of mind exalted at the expense of the general intellect." - E. A. Poe from Eleonora

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