Is Arch Linux too adcanced for me?

Mangocave · 2018-02-25 21:52:46

I am sick and tired of Microsoft and wish to switch off of Windows. However, I am not skilled at all when it comes to anything tech-based. I'm not moving over to Mac because I cannot stand Apple. I am stuck between a few different distros of Linux (Mint, Fedora, and Arch). Arch seems like the best option, however, I worry that I will have too difficult a time using it because of my aforementioned lack of technical skills. To elaborate, I cannot code and have never used any Linux distribution before. What is recommended?

Trilby · 2018-02-25 22:07:26

Mangocave wrote:

I cannot code and have never used any Linux distribution before.

You are not in arch linux's target audience. As I suspect you have read, arch linux is targetted towards advanced/experienced linux users. Many others would be unhappy with arch.

That said, ability to code is not particularly relevant. More relevant is whether or not you can cook. Really. If you are willing and able to follow step by step instructions, you can use arch.

But I might ask why you'd want to use arch? What are your needs, and in what way would arch fill those needs better than another linux distro? If you are not already well versed in linux, I'm not sure you'd have needs that would be well met by arch.

imdn · 2018-02-25 22:07:58

If you've never used Linux before and consider yourself technically unskilled, then Arch's not for you. In fact you might not even be able to install it. You're better off with one of the user-friendly distros such as Mint/Ubuntu.

cirrus · 2018-02-25 22:48:20

Hi Mangocave
Welcome to the forums, i too do not consider myself a coder, my 5 line shell scripts do not count, however i had been using Linux for a few years before i decided to use Arch, as the others have said, if you are brand new to Linux then Arch is not for you, it's very much a 'hands on distro' i too recommend you use one of the more user friendly distro's then revisit us when you feel more confident using Linux.
Regards

chris_sugden · 2018-02-25 23:55:06

Welcome, Mangocave!

I have made my living writing code, and still started with Ubuntu 13 years or so ago. I graduated to Arch when my old hardware couldn't keep up with some of the demands the default Ubuntu install made.

When I finished my first Ubuntu install, I had a desktop with every single kind of software installed I could ask for. When I finished my first Arch install, I had a command line and a network connection, but I was happier. It felt more tidy and ripe with possibilities to just have the command line.

In both Linuxes, the way through was to figure out the CONF files (or the cnf files...the this or that file...) and where it's located in that distro. And to quote my programming mentor, "Do not let mysteries go by!" Someone somewhere has also not known what a SAMBASHARE is, so understand each term as best you can.

The cooking analogy seems apt. If you can follow instructions and are able to learn - usually more technical stuff to learn than what medium-rare feels like, but it's not too tough.

Good luck!

It's worth it!

2ManyDogs · 2018-02-26 01:12:20

Trilby wrote:

But I might ask why you'd want to use arch? What are your needs, and in what way would arch fill those needs better than another linux distro?

+1. If you don't have very good answers to these questions, I'd suggest starting with Mint or Debian. Once you get used to using one of those distros and the way Linux differs from Windows, you may find those distros do not meet your needs and you will be better able to articulate why Arch might be a better distro for you. Or you may find that you are happy with Mint or Debian, and that's OK.

cirrus9 · 2018-02-26 02:06:55

I would recommend you start with Mint Linux. It's about the easiest for a new to Linux user. Ubuntu would be second in my opinion. I started with Mint some years ago when my old PPC Mac was out of update options. I have used many Linux distros, and I still have several on this machine. I like Arch for the ability to customize, lack of bloat, rolling release, and I got to learn something about Linux, and how operating systems work in general. I still wouldn't advise a new Linux user to start with Arch, unless you have some computer systems education, and training. Mint will work just fine, and can be updated to the next version without a reinstall. Hope this helps, and good luck!

ray731 · 2018-02-26 10:21:20

Sure, you can try arch. Why not, it's not a rocket science. And wiki and forum can always help if you're ready to learn. Try various distros, you can have them all on one drive, including windows. Then you can make a good choice.

NoSuck · 2018-02-26 11:02:49

I concur that Mint/Ubuntu would be good choices for starting out. More importantly, you inspired me, sweet Mango.

It's funny how the general consensus of Arch users is not to recommend one of Arch's more “user-friendly” derivatives (Manjaro, et al). We are a vicious pack.

Trilby · 2018-02-26 11:56:00

NoSuck wrote:

It's funny how the general consensus of Arch users is not to recommend one of Arch's more “user-friendly” derivatives (Manjaro, et al). We are a vicious pack.

I don't think it's vicious. It's sensible. While I will not single out any specific examples for this, most of them are poorly made pieces of crap.

That said I will name one potential exception to this - which I even thought of including as a recommendation in my first post. That's ChakraOS. I've not used it myself to know how well done it is, but I am impressed by their documentation. It's clearly targetted at those totally new to linux and allows users to start wherever they are; yet the documentation is also very much geared towards educating those new users rather than the "pay no attention to the man behind the curtain" mentality of other new-user-friendly systems.

It also seems noteworthy that of all the spin-off / derivative distros that we get littering these forums, chakra is very rarely one of them. So they must have their own sufficient quality support community.

Awebb · 2018-02-26 12:38:57

If you use Ubuntu for a year, you'll be a wizard. Ubuntu makes so many decisions for you and you WILL want to change them. You'll generate all kinds of random hacking skills. Then start using Arch, because by then you will be proficient and reading and understanding guides. Getting Arch to do what you want is easy, because it only does what you tell it to. Fighting random undocumented behavior in Ubuntu is way more difficult, than systematically reading guides.

NoSuck · 2018-02-26 14:54:41

Trilby wrote:

While I will not single out any specific examples for this, most of them are poorly made pieces of crap.

I admit that “vicious” was chosen more for color than accuracy. Still, Arch derivatives are at an unfair disadvantage, at least in this neck of the woods. After all, parents are harder on their own children than the children of others. (Much of the Debian community, for example, leaves no rock unturned when bashing Ubuntu.)

I have made a note of Chakra. Thanks for mentioning it.

Morn · 2018-02-26 15:30:39

If you want to remove Windows from your computer entirely and create a dedicated Linux computer, I don't see why you should not at least give Arch a try. Common newbie mistakes like accidentally wiping the Windows partition during reformatting would not be something to be afraid of. And getting a Linux boot loader to work is much easier if you are not dual-booting with Windows.

Back up all your important data (always a good idea anyway), and try to install Arch. If it does not work out, you can always reformat the drive and install Mint or Manjaro or Ubuntu or whatever. Before you start, boot a Linux live CD or USB to see if your hardware is compatible. If a live CD boots into a GUI, has network access, plays sound, etc., Arch should be able to work on a given computer also.

ewaller · 2018-02-26 15:45:52

I've been watching this thread for a couple days. A lot of my opinions have been expressed already.

Do you need a system that works while you learn about Arch? Or can you dedicate a system to it that can afford to be down for a while? While learning Arch, it is good to have a working network connection and browser so as to do your research. If not, you may want to consider a dual boot of another Linux distribution (in your case, I might suggest Debian) and Arch.

In general, you seem willing to learn. If you do your research, ask good questions (1) and take your time, you should be able to tame Arch. Don't just blindly copy and paste commands, but take the time to dissect each one to figure out exactly what it is doing. If you do this, the forums will be glad to help. Contrary to legend, we don't bite -- If you do your own research If you screw up, you'll know; but take the feedback and learn from it.

Welcome to Arch Linux.

(1) See the article linked in my signature. I am not implying that it applies to you as you have not (yet) committed any of the transgressions that normally cause us to point to that article. Regardless, it will give you a pretty good idea how we operate.

Last edited by ewaller (2018-02-26 15:47:37)

DillyDilly · 2018-02-26 17:48:19

Mangocave wrote:

I am sick and tired of Microsoft and wish to switch off of Windows. .... I'm not moving over to Mac because I cannot stand Apple.

Like yourself, I also HATE Microsoft and Apple. You will not regret switching over to GNU/Linux.

I reccomend starting with a user friendly distro of GNU Linux. I highly recomend Ubuntu or a branch of Ubunt such as Mint. However, there are a lot of great distrobutions out there. If you'd like to see the full list then check out this diagram (there's a crap load): https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ … meline.svg

Definitely reccomend switching to Arch once you are comfortable with GNU/Linux and have at least a year of experience. Prior to switching over, get comfortable with the terminal and learn the basic commands.

Hope this helps!

CarbonChauvinist · 2018-02-26 18:04:12

Being mindful of not descending into a "try $DISTRO" thread, but for me at least I really cut my teeth with OpenSUSE for a couple of years as a single-boot daily-driver before making the change to Arch and I know it was beneficial.

I think it's important to not dual-boot or run in a VM, you have to force yourself to use Linux for daily tasks and not revert back to what's easier for you (known OS).

To me zypper is the closest thing to pacman out there among other distros (ducks side-eyes). Also Tumbleweed particularly, should allow you to try out a rolling-release distro without the hurdle of jumping feet first into Arch.

IrvineHimself · 2018-02-26 20:41:59

I totally agree with @ewaller . Arch doesn't bite, and, if you don't need to be spoon-fed, is far superior to the alternative distros suggested in this thread.

To answer the question: "Is Arch too difficult/advanced?"
I switched from Windows to Linux with the introduction of Windows 10. I spent about a month with Ubuntu, which works out of the box until I wanted to do something interesting.... At which point, I was only too glad to switch to Arch as my distro of choice.

Some Tips:
1) Either on a dedicated partition or on a USB, install a standard graphical distro such as Fedora and use the chroot enviroment to build up the base Arch installation into a functioning graphical desktop. The arch-install-scripts can help with this and are extremely useful for troubleshooting and essential maintenance.
2) Be careful when first connecting to the internet. Although the UFW firewall can be installed from the chroot, it can't be started as a service. Hence, you need to exit the chroot to enable the firewall
3) At least initially, you will probably find it easier to use command line based network management tools like wifi-menu from the dailog package. However, these can conflict with graphically based network tools. As a result, you will need to ensure that any services started by these tools are fully stopped before starting/enabling your final choice of network manager.
4) Arguably, the power of *nix, (and the difficulty of Arch,) is in the shells and pipes. These usually have weird names like grep, dmesg and pacman, but you shouldn't let this put you off. They are so powerful, with Windows 10, even Microsoft is creating official ports of the more generic tools. For example, to check for logged errors in your new system, use: dmesg | grep "error"

In Summary:
* If you are prepared to study and learn, Arch is probably the best distro available. (Gentoo and Slackware are also good but do not have the same support for binary blobs.)
* Take it slow, install a pre-packaged distro like Fedora before you start, and discover the quirks of Linux as you plan out your custom Arch Os.
* Plan on using the Fedora Os as a back-door chroot into your Arch box.

Best of luck
Irvine

mandog · 2018-02-27 01:45:06

What the Arch Linux was the 1st Linux distro I ever installed back in 2005 and have maintained it ever since, Yes I know I'm only registered since 2008 but that is a reregister.
If you have the mind set arch is not a problem nor is installing its a matter of exepting the Arch way of doing things.

ngoonee · 2018-02-27 02:05:42

Trilby wrote:

That said, ability to code is not particularly relevant. More relevant is whether or not you can cook. Really. If you are willing and able to follow step by step instructions, you can use arch.

I code (granted, not very well or quickly) but I can't cook for the life of me.

And the statement should really be that if you are willing and able to follow step by step instructions, you can INSTALL Arch. Using it is a different matter, and in my own experience those who don't like to tinker just get frustrated quickly trying to actually USE Arch.

ewaller · 2018-02-27 02:19:14

At this juncture, I suggest we wait for a response from Mangocave.

sonoran · 2018-02-27 18:17:52

IrvineHimself wrote:

... 3) At least initially, you will probably find it easier to use command line based network management tools like wifi-menu from the dailog package.

Just a minor correction - wifi-menu is provided by the netctl package, not dialog. ($ pacman -Ql netctl)

IrvineHimself · 2018-02-27 22:34:45

sonoran wrote:

Just a minor correction - wifi-menu is provided by the netctl package, not dialog. ($ pacman -Ql netctl)

Sorry, you are correct, wifi-menu is provided by netctl which is part of the base installation. The optional dialog dependency is needed "for the menu based wifi assistant". (see pacman -Si netctl)

Actually, when I made the post, I checked the wiki, which sort of implies that wifi-menu is provided by the dialog dependency.

Beaucoup apologies
Irvine

Last edited by IrvineHimself (2018-02-27 22:47:42)

Awebb · 2018-02-27 22:50:19

The good old pacstrap /mnt base base-devel dialog.

fluxboxer · 2018-02-27 23:41:54

Install Manjaro or Antergos, both are Arch with very easy installations and both are very popular. Then if you like you can convert them to pure Arch which is easier with Antergos I guess.

Last edited by fluxboxer (2018-02-27 23:44:01)

ewaller · 2018-02-28 00:05:53

fluxboxer wrote:

Install Manjaro or Antergos, both are Arch with very easy installations and both are very popular. Then if you like you can convert them to pure Arch which is easier with Antergos I guess.

Wrong on each and every count, with the possible exception that they are popular.

Edit: At this point, I am going to close this thread. Mangocave, if you return and want this thread reopened, use the report link and leave the moderators a note and we will reopen it.

Last edited by ewaller (2018-02-28 00:07:59)

Arch Linux

#1 2018-02-25 21:52:46

Is Arch Linux too adcanced for me?

#2 2018-02-25 22:07:26

Re: Is Arch Linux too adcanced for me?

#3 2018-02-25 22:07:58

Re: Is Arch Linux too adcanced for me?

#4 2018-02-25 22:48:20

Re: Is Arch Linux too adcanced for me?

#5 2018-02-25 23:55:06

Re: Is Arch Linux too adcanced for me?

#6 2018-02-26 01:12:20

Re: Is Arch Linux too adcanced for me?

#7 2018-02-26 02:06:55

Re: Is Arch Linux too adcanced for me?

#8 2018-02-26 10:21:20

Re: Is Arch Linux too adcanced for me?

#9 2018-02-26 11:02:49

Re: Is Arch Linux too adcanced for me?

#10 2018-02-26 11:56:00

Re: Is Arch Linux too adcanced for me?

#11 2018-02-26 12:38:57

Re: Is Arch Linux too adcanced for me?

#12 2018-02-26 14:54:41

Re: Is Arch Linux too adcanced for me?

#13 2018-02-26 15:30:39

Re: Is Arch Linux too adcanced for me?

#14 2018-02-26 15:45:52

Re: Is Arch Linux too adcanced for me?

#15 2018-02-26 17:48:19

Re: Is Arch Linux too adcanced for me?

#16 2018-02-26 18:04:12

Re: Is Arch Linux too adcanced for me?

#17 2018-02-26 20:41:59

Re: Is Arch Linux too adcanced for me?

#18 2018-02-27 01:45:06

Re: Is Arch Linux too adcanced for me?

#19 2018-02-27 02:05:42

Re: Is Arch Linux too adcanced for me?

#20 2018-02-27 02:19:14

Re: Is Arch Linux too adcanced for me?

#21 2018-02-27 18:17:52

Re: Is Arch Linux too adcanced for me?

#22 2018-02-27 22:34:45

Re: Is Arch Linux too adcanced for me?

#23 2018-02-27 22:50:19

Re: Is Arch Linux too adcanced for me?

#24 2018-02-27 23:41:54

Re: Is Arch Linux too adcanced for me?

#25 2018-02-28 00:05:53

Re: Is Arch Linux too adcanced for me?

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