Incorrect advice on "Installation_without_Internet_access" wiki page?

edrozenberg · 2018-02-27 00:15:33

I recently did a couple of Arch installs. When doing my first installation I found the following page when searching for a method to install from the ISO file (instead of using pacstrap):

https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Ar … net_access

This information led me down an incorrect path and caused me to wind up with a messy, easily broken setup. It appears *the* way to install is to use pacstrap, and attempts to copy files from the ISO directly is incorrect advice. If that's the case, would you consider removing this advice to prevent future visitors to that page from doing dumb things?

Did I misunderstand the advice or intent of this page? Maybe it's not meant for doing an install, but it does read like it is meant for that, and is also linked from https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Ca … lling_Arch under the "Installation methods" section.

The page includes the following advice that leads the user down an apparently bad path:

---------------

Install the archiso to the new root
# time cp -ax / /mnt

Then, copy the kernel image to the new root, in order to keep the integrity of the new system:
# cp -vaT /run/archiso/bootmnt/arch/boot/$(uname -m)/vmlinuz /mnt/boot/vmlinuz-linux

Note: Before performing the other Installation guide#Configure the system steps (e.g. locale, keymap, etc.), it is necessary to get rid of the trace of the Live environment (in other words, the customization of archiso which does not fit a non-Live environment).

---------------

The second install I did using pacstrap (not the copy from iso method) was completely problem-free and easy.

I'm an Arch newbie, yes, so maybe I totally don't get it. Quite possible.

Thank you,
--Ed

Last edited by edrozenberg (2018-02-27 00:17:43)

lahwaacz · 2018-02-27 07:25:03

The page also says "Instead of installing the packages with pacstrap (which would try to download from the remote repositories), copy everything in the live environment to the new root". So while pacstrap definitely works, it may need internet access.

Trilby · 2018-02-27 11:44:04

edrozenberg, I agree this section is definitely not something that one should normally follow. That doesn't mean it doesn't have any place at all.

If any revision is necessary, I suspect it might be in the search path that led you to that section such that it seemed like a reasonable normal action.

That page itself is about archiso, which is a tool for creating arch linux isos, not for normal system installations. And the section in question is under the supplimental "tips and tricks" with a header indicating it is not the typical method but a workaround for those stuck without internet access. ~~Then on top of that there are two big flags at the top of that section, one highlighting a dispute over the accuracy of the section itself.~~ (edit: I guess there *was* only 1).

I'm not sure how many more red flags their could be. I see this a bit like a section of road that is suspected to be susceptible to sink holes. So the authoritizes put up barricades, no entry signs, several warning signs, and even some spike strips to ensure no vehicles try to drive on that road until it is patched up. Then someone drives over all the barricades, ignores the signs, goes off-road to get around the spike strips, and ends up in a sink hole. Then later they question why there is a road there at all if it's unsafe to drive on.

That's why I'm interested in how you got there. What searches or links did you follow that could have led you to believe that this was the normal, or even a reasonable method for doing a new install?

Did you follow advice on a third party blog or tutorial that pointed to that section?

Last edited by Trilby (2018-02-27 12:07:41)

progandy · 2018-02-27 12:01:27

@Trilby: The dispute flag has been added by lahwaacz today, probably in response to this thread. The rest of your arguments stands, though.

lahwaacz · 2018-02-27 20:38:27

There is a link to that section in the "Installation methods" section on the Category:Getting and installing Arch page. The thing is that there isn't any real alternative described on the wiki.

Trilby · 2018-02-27 20:58:48

Ah, well it is the second of two options for the specific unfortunate circumstance of not having a network connection.

However, combining this thread with the OPs previous thread, I can definitely see how that "Getting and installing arch" page could readily lead to frustration and confusion. There seem to be many options pointing to all different pages, and I don't see any reference on that page to the official installation guide (ok, it's burried in the list at the bottom).

It may be worth revising that "Getting and installing" page to highlight that most of the options listed there are either alternatives to or supplements to the steps in the official installation guide in order to minimize such confusion.

Last edited by Trilby (2018-02-27 20:59:35)

edrozenberg · 2018-02-28 04:20:51

Thank you for your feedback!

I had an initial misuderstanding of the Arch Wiki as "The Arch Master's Instructions to Arch Followers", rather than the correct reading as a work in progress edited by fallible individuals, which is what most wikis are. I followed it blindly - my bad absolutely. It's part of learning about a new community.

I tried to replicate the Google searches I might have used to land on that page in the first place and I wasn't able to. I tried for ex "install arch linux from iso" and other similar queries but none of them bubble that page to the top.

Last edited by edrozenberg (2018-02-28 04:22:34)

edrozenberg · 2018-02-28 04:34:04

Also to follow up on "for the specific unfortunate circumstance of not having a network connection."

I was online on a fast connection but a few "extenuating circumstances" caused me to go down the path of offline install:

* When trying pacstrap the first time I landed on the slowest mirror in the world, and downloads were taking forever. My bad for not reading more about the mirror settings or figuring out why downloads were slow. I think country mirrors are purposely not grouped together in the mirrors file but this makes it hard to comment or delete all but the country of interest. The fair chance of landing on a "bad" mirror may cause some initially uninformed users to falsely think Arch downloads are "slow".

* Most distros (and I know Arch is *not* most distros are set up so that when you download an ISO, you also install directly from that ISO. I'm better informed now.

Arch Linux

#1 2018-02-27 00:15:33

Incorrect advice on "Installation_without_Internet_access" wiki page?

#2 2018-02-27 07:25:03

Re: Incorrect advice on "Installation_without_Internet_access" wiki page?

#3 2018-02-27 11:44:04

Re: Incorrect advice on "Installation_without_Internet_access" wiki page?

#4 2018-02-27 12:01:27

Re: Incorrect advice on "Installation_without_Internet_access" wiki page?

#5 2018-02-27 20:38:27

Re: Incorrect advice on "Installation_without_Internet_access" wiki page?

#6 2018-02-27 20:58:48

Re: Incorrect advice on "Installation_without_Internet_access" wiki page?

#7 2018-02-28 04:20:51

Re: Incorrect advice on "Installation_without_Internet_access" wiki page?

#8 2018-02-28 04:34:04

Re: Incorrect advice on "Installation_without_Internet_access" wiki page?

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