Arch Linux

dtw

Forum Fellow

From: UK

Registered: 2004-08-03

Posts: 4,439

Website

phpbb 3.0 is approaching

And the inevitable question will have to be asked: will we upgrade?  Well, we may have to if they withdraw support for phpbb 2.0, which they will eventually I guess.

There is a feature list here.  Many of these things we have installed mods to provide, so that is good in some respects.  But is it all a bit too bloated?  Do we need to go back to basics?

soloport

Member

Registered: 2005-03-01

Posts: 442

Re: phpbb 3.0 is approaching

Me likes the Forums the way they are.  But then, ignorance is bliss.  8)

A side-by-side would be nice to help compare but, seems like, would require a lot of resources.

Damn.  I'm short another two cents!

Romashka

Forum Fellow

Registered: 2005-12-07

Posts: 1,054

Re: phpbb 3.0 is approaching

phpBB will be much powerful, as I see. But the downside is more complexity (and bloatness?).

Will bug #5684 be fixed in phpBB 3? Can it be fixed now?

BTW, anyone knows some good doc about comparison of phpBB 3 and SMF 1.1 ?

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iphitus

Forum Fellow

From: Melbourne, Australia

Registered: 2004-10-09

Posts: 4,927

Re: phpbb 3.0 is approaching

phpBB will be much powerful, as I see. But the downside is more complexity (and bloatness?).

Will bug #5684 be fixed in phpBB 3? Can it be fixed now?

BTW, anyone knows some good doc about comparison of phpBB 3 and SMF 1.1 ?

well a lot of phpbb3 we've implemented as mods, so imho, phpbb3 would be less complexity, as each update wont break the mods, because they're included.

also, will the phpBB2 still be developed? If not, we have no choice but use phpBB3, else we'll be vulnerable to any discovered security holes.

Romashka

Forum Fellow

Registered: 2005-12-07

Posts: 1,054

Re: phpbb 3.0 is approaching

also, will the phpBB2 still be developed? If not, we have no choice but use phpBB3, else we'll be vulnerable to any discovered security holes.

I'm sure there will be security patches for phpBB, either official or unofficial.

I'm going to try SMF at our company. It's the most rated forum engine at http://www.opensourcecms.com/
IceBB also looks clean but nice for me.

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dtw

Forum Fellow

From: UK

Registered: 2004-08-03

Posts: 4,439

Website

Re: phpbb 3.0 is approaching

Will bug #5684 be fixed in phpBB 3? Can it be fixed now?

It's not a bug in phpbb as far as I know, just in our installation.  It can be fixed but nobody gives a fsck and frankly I don't either.

I recently provide Judd with a run down of possible forum solutions to replace phpbb.  I personally would advocate a completely stripped down system with no avatars or fancy overly fancy image formatting at all.

cactus

Taco Eater

From: t͈̫̹ͨa͖͕͎̱͈ͨ͆ć̥̖̝o̫̫̼s͈̭̱̞͍̃!̰

Registered: 2004-05-25

Posts: 4,622

Website

Re: phpbb 3.0 is approaching

I recently provide Judd with a run down of possible forum solutions to replace phpbb.  I personally would advocate a completely stripped down system with no avatars or fancy overly fancy image formatting at all.

yeah. I like punbb too.

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"Be conservative in what you send; be liberal in what you accept." -- Postel's Law
"tacos" -- Cactus' Law
"t̥͍͎̪̪͗a̴̻̩͈͚ͨc̠o̩̙͈ͫͅs͙͎̙͊ ͔͇̫̜t͎̳̀a̜̞̗ͩc̗͍͚o̲̯̿s̖̣̤̙͌ ̖̜̈ț̰̫͓ạ̪͖̳c̲͎͕̰̯̃̈o͉ͅs̪ͪ ̜̻̖̜͕" -- -̖͚̫̙̓-̺̠͇ͤ̃ ̜̪̜ͯZ͔̗̭̞ͪA̝͈̙͖̩L͉̠̺͓G̙̞̦͖O̳̗͍

neotuli

Lazy Developer

From: London, UK

Registered: 2004-07-06

Posts: 1,204

Website

Re: phpbb 3.0 is approaching

I like the looks of punbb too.

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The suggestion box only accepts patches.

Romashka

Forum Fellow

Registered: 2005-12-07

Posts: 1,054

Re: phpbb 3.0 is approaching

I like both PunBB and XennoDB. Tableless forum pages are cool!

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iphitus

Forum Fellow

From: Melbourne, Australia

Registered: 2004-10-09

Posts: 4,927

Re: phpbb 3.0 is approaching

punbb looked good. nice and simple.

Romashka

Forum Fellow

Registered: 2005-12-07

Posts: 1,054

Re: phpbb 3.0 is approaching

Yeah, but some mods are still needed. For example, polls.
Version 1.3 will have mod installer.
Also, I like DukuWiki much more than MediaWiki.

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dtw

Forum Fellow

From: UK

Registered: 2004-08-03

Posts: 4,439

Website

Re: phpbb 3.0 is approaching

We/I use/d dokuwiki for Archie.

The only prob with moving to a new forum solution was moving the old posts, any suggestions welcome.  I think punbb would be the top choice.

Romashka

Forum Fellow

Registered: 2005-12-07

Posts: 1,054

Re: phpbb 3.0 is approaching

We/I use/d dokuwiki for Archie.

Why Arch Wiki doesn't use it too? IMHO it's better suited for such purposes, than MediaWiki.

The only prob with moving to a new forum solution was moving the old posts, any suggestions welcome.  I think punbb would be the top choice.

But there should be some features added (with mods):
private messaging, polls, text formatting (bold, quote, code)
Also, smiles should be changed to antialiased.

About mirgation: there is PunBB Migration Tool, however there might be some problems with converting, but I'm sure PunBB community will help if they will occur.

Offtopic: BTW, dtw, I've read your blog post, but you are still visiting forums.

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Dusty

Schwag Merchant

From: Medicine Hat, Alberta, Canada

Registered: 2004-01-18

Posts: 5,986

Website

Re: phpbb 3.0 is approaching

I recently provide Judd with a run down of possible forum solutions to replace phpbb.  I personally would advocate a completely stripped down system with no avatars or fancy overly fancy image formatting at all.

Could you CC this to me?

I'm also for something that's much simpler to manage. Contrary to what's been stated here, I think polls should be stripped; they cause us a fair bit of grief, and most of the time are utterly useless because of missing options or people including "funny" options that make no sense, or because the question is absolutely ridiculous. Having them not available seems like a wonderful thing to me.

No avatars is great too, it means we don't have to deal with offensive ones. That's pretty rare though.

I also think there should be a really easy way to deal with spammers, as they are getting to be more than just a small problem.

The problem with "simpler" bb solutions is that most big forums like to make things complex. I don't know how well tested a simple solution would be with a userbase of this size. One of the main reasons we are using mediawiki is that its known to scale well.

The real issue here is not what software to use, but who's going to do it.

Dusty

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Romashka

Forum Fellow

Registered: 2005-12-07

Posts: 1,054

Re: phpbb 3.0 is approaching

I'm also for something that's much simpler to manage. Contrary to what's been stated here, I think polls should be stripped; they cause us a fair bit of grief, and most of the time are utterly useless because of missing options or people including "funny" options that make no sense, or because the question is absolutely ridiculous. Having them not available seems like a wonderful thing to me.

Well, yes. We can live without polls.
And what about private messages? IMHO they are useful, because most users don't specify their e-mail addresses.

No avatars is great too, it means we don't have to deal with offensive ones. That's pretty rare though.

I like my avatar.    But if there will be no avatars I don't think this will be a big problem. However, there will be some part of dissatisfied users.
(BTW, I saw here an user with 180x180 avatar IIRC  :shock: )

I also think there should be a really easy way to deal with spammers, as they are getting to be more than just a small problem.

What solution do you propose?
I didn't see spammers on forums, but on wiki - yes, they do some damage, but much less than half year ago.

The problem with "simpler" bb solutions is that most big forums like to make things complex. I don't know how well tested a simple solution would be with a userbase of this size. One of the main reasons we are using mediawiki is that its known to scale well.

Arch Wiki is much smaller than Wikipedia and DokuWiki is used by many big projects too, and it has some good features for software documentation, plus a better syntax IMHO.

The real issue here is not what software to use, but who's going to do it.

I'm sure there are qualified users here that can do this, but IMHO the problem is - are they allowed to do this?

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dtw

Forum Fellow

From: UK

Registered: 2004-08-03

Posts: 4,439

Website

Re: phpbb 3.0 is approaching

But there should be some features added (with mods):
private messaging, polls, text formatting (bold, quote, code)
Also, smiles should be changed to antialiased.

I think we need to look at what is essential and do away with everything else.  Arch, in the most part, is evidently a community of adults: most of us are not into myspace and we don't have out clan logos in our sigs.  The Arch forums really are about the distro and I think we need to capitalise on that.  Following on from that I am all for getting rid of PMs.  Everybody's email is available in their profile so why do we bother?  Arch isn't obliged to provide messaging facilities.

Offtopic: BTW, dtw, I've read your blog post, but you are still visiting forums.

I don't see what it has to do with you but I never said I would stop visiting.

Could you CC this to me?

Erm....

I'm also for something that's much simpler to manage. Contrary to what's been stated here, I think polls should be stripped; they cause us a fair bit of grief, and most of the time are utterly useless because of missing options or people including "funny" options that make no sense, or because the question is absolutely ridiculous. Having them not available seems like a wonderful thing to me.

It'd bugger the TU voting system up but I always thought it was a stop gap anyway.  If you want to trial run you can disable poll creation permissions for all but devs and TUs - they often use the to gauge public opinion...but then that would be elitest.  You could leave them enabled in off-topic.

I also think there should be a really easy way to deal with spammers, as they are getting to be more than just a small problem.

phpbb's captcha is like 90% ineffective with no promised improvements from the dev team - a reason in itself to quit phpbb.

I don't know how well tested a simple solution would be with a userbase of this size. One of the main reasons we are using mediawiki is that its known to scale well.

I reckon it'd be ok.  We're such a big project that we might even be able to  schmoze with their dev team.

The real issue here is not what software to use, but who's going to do it.

I disagree in the politest way possible.  The type of solution we choose will dramatically affect the choice of implementor and future develops; it's vital the right choice is made.

I also think there should be a really easy way to deal with spammers, as they are getting to be more than just a small problem.

What solution do you propose?
I didn't see spammers on forums, but on wiki - yes, they do some damage, but much less than half year ago.

That's mainly due to Snowman's hard work.  What do you think would help, Dusty?  Better captcha and a cleanable member that allows you to search urls for banned term would be a big boon.  I gave up waiting for the phpbb mod for tidying up the member list.

IMHO the problem is - are they allowed to do this?

Of course, Arch has, and always will, accept all sorts of contributions - the real problem is that most people are just to lazy/busy to bother

cactus

Taco Eater

From: t͈̫̹ͨa͖͕͎̱͈ͨ͆ć̥̖̝o̫̫̼s͈̭̱̞͍̃!̰

Registered: 2004-05-25

Posts: 4,622

Website

Re: phpbb 3.0 is approaching

The problem with "simpler" bb solutions is that most big forums like to make things complex. I don't know how well tested a simple solution would be with a userbase of this size. One of the main reasons we are using mediawiki is that its known to scale well.

MacAddict uses punbb.. they have over a million posts. That is pretty darn big.

The real issue here is not what software to use, but who's going to do it.

i would be happy to help with it. I don't think we need to migrate any posts though....so take that stance into consideration.

---

"Be conservative in what you send; be liberal in what you accept." -- Postel's Law
"tacos" -- Cactus' Law
"t̥͍͎̪̪͗a̴̻̩͈͚ͨc̠o̩̙͈ͫͅs͙͎̙͊ ͔͇̫̜t͎̳̀a̜̞̗ͩc̗͍͚o̲̯̿s̖̣̤̙͌ ̖̜̈ț̰̫͓ạ̪͖̳c̲͎͕̰̯̃̈o͉ͅs̪ͪ ̜̻̖̜͕" -- -̖͚̫̙̓-̺̠͇ͤ̃ ̜̪̜ͯZ͔̗̭̞ͪA̝͈̙͖̩L͉̠̺͓G̙̞̦͖O̳̗͍

Romashka

Forum Fellow

Registered: 2005-12-07

Posts: 1,054

Re: phpbb 3.0 is approaching

Offtopic: BTW, dtw, I've read your blog post, but you are still visiting forums.

I don't see what it has to do with you but I never said I would stop visiting.

Maybe you understand me wrong, I'm happy that you are visiting Arch forums.

IMHO the problem is - are they allowed to do this?

Of course, Arch has, and always will, accept all sorts of contributions - the real problem is that most people are just to lazy/busy to bother

I can help with PHP/XHTML/CSS, but some things (like database converting) can be done only by those who have access to them.

BTW, are "pading issues" still here? 'cause I don't get what you were talking about.  :?

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dtw

Forum Fellow

From: UK

Registered: 2004-08-03

Posts: 4,439

Website

Re: phpbb 3.0 is approaching

Well, if you use teh Arch theme, as I do, and you use firefox the you should see that all the quotes and nested quotes are all kind of left aligned to one another - there is no horizontal or vertical padding.  If you switch to the other theme you will see how they should be padded...so, yeah, still here.

I can see where you are coming from there cactus, but not sure that Judd does!

Romashka

Forum Fellow

Registered: 2005-12-07

Posts: 1,054

Re: phpbb 3.0 is approaching

Well, if you use teh Arch theme, as I do, and you use firefox the you should see that all the quotes and nested quotes are all kind of left aligned to one another - there is no horizontal or vertical padding.  If you switch to the other theme you will see how they should be padded...so, yeah, still here.

Heh, I use Firefox only on my second work, so maybe I just didn't pay attention to it when used Firedox. I'll see and try to fix CSS.

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cactus

Taco Eater

From: t͈̫̹ͨa͖͕͎̱͈ͨ͆ć̥̖̝o̫̫̼s͈̭̱̞͍̃!̰

Registered: 2004-05-25

Posts: 4,622

Website

Re: phpbb 3.0 is approaching

I can see where you are coming from there cactus, but not sure that Judd does!

:?:

---

"Be conservative in what you send; be liberal in what you accept." -- Postel's Law
"tacos" -- Cactus' Law
"t̥͍͎̪̪͗a̴̻̩͈͚ͨc̠o̩̙͈ͫͅs͙͎̙͊ ͔͇̫̜t͎̳̀a̜̞̗ͩc̗͍͚o̲̯̿s̖̣̤̙͌ ̖̜̈ț̰̫͓ạ̪͖̳c̲͎͕̰̯̃̈o͉ͅs̪ͪ ̜̻̖̜͕" -- -̖͚̫̙̓-̺̠͇ͤ̃ ̜̪̜ͯZ͔̗̭̞ͪA̝͈̙͖̩L͉̠̺͓G̙̞̦͖O̳̗͍

dtw

Forum Fellow

From: UK

Registered: 2004-08-03

Posts: 4,439

Website

Re: phpbb 3.0 is approaching

Sorry, re: post migration

Romashka

Forum Fellow

Registered: 2005-12-07

Posts: 1,054

Re: phpbb 3.0 is approaching

I think post migration will be good. Why not???

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Dusty

Schwag Merchant

From: Medicine Hat, Alberta, Canada

Registered: 2004-01-18

Posts: 5,986

Website

Re: phpbb 3.0 is approaching

migration is hard and its hard to find people willing to do it. But I'd like to see either of these policies:

1) migrate posts
2) keep the old forum for searching, any time somebody finds something useful in the old forum, they are asked to migrate the information to the wiki.

Now here's the issue: people say they'll do things. "I'll help, I'll help". But it rarely happens. Before he makes a decision, Judd needs results. Anybody interested in doing this should get together and start setting up a prototype board somewhere. DTW did this when he started adding phpbb mods. This will answer the "allowed to do it" question. Set it up, prove you're going to work on it, give some indication that you'll maintain it, and Judd will be happy to accept it.

Now me, personally, I think a lot of discussion is useless, because most of the people offering opinions are never going to help with the work. Offering *ideas*, that is wonderful, but offering opinions is a waste of time. But that's just my experience with previous threads just like this.

Romashka: IIRC, it was you who redesigned the website and created the unified headers, correct? To me, this is an indication that you're willing to work on this and that you do good work... and I feel if you had enough access to the wiki, phpbb, website, and possibly even the AUR interface you'd be a good webmaster for Arch. But if you or anyone else want this as an official position, you'll probably have to continue developing offline/offsite, as you did when designing the site.

This is how things get done in Arch... one person, or some people work it out on their own and present a prototype product. Discussion saying "someone should do it" won't get anything done, and saying "I will do it if...." doesn't either.

Dusty

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** Arch Linux Apparel and more ** Arch Linux stickers, laptop bags, jewelery ** I wrote a book on Python 3 ** and one on mental health **

Romashka

Forum Fellow

Registered: 2005-12-07

Posts: 1,054

Re: phpbb 3.0 is approaching

Romashka: IIRC, it was you who redesigned the website and created the unified headers, correct?

No.  :oops: Not the current one. IIRC the visual redesign was done by rezza, and coding by Judd, I suppose.
I've still not finished my redesign project. Actually, what I am doing at my free time is not a visual redesign, but PHP backend for unification Arch and AUR (search in both places etc.) plus some experimenting (I started this before archlinux.org was moved to Django framework). I'm not pretending for it to be the next archlinux.org, I mainly do this "for fun" now, but as things will get usable I'll present this to Judd and community.
Sadly, my real life beats me all time, and I was not able to finish this project yet.

To me, this is an indication that you're willing to work on this and that you do good work... and I feel if you had enough access to the wiki, phpbb, website, and possibly even the AUR interface you'd be a good webmaster for Arch. But if you or anyone else want this as an official position, you'll probably have to continue developing offline/offsite, as you did when designing the site.

:oops: I think I not deserved this yet for the reason described above. In the current design I only helped to fix one issue with M$ IE. And now will look at padding issue in Firefox as described by dtw.

This is how things get done in Arch... one person, or some people work it out on their own and present a prototype product. Discussion saying "someone should do it" won't get anything done, and saying "I will do it if...." doesn't either.

Dusty, your words made me feel so ashamed because I haven't finished what I wanted yet, and didn't show it to Judd.  :oops:
But now I will try to work more quickly. 

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