Arch 0.8 far away?

Lontronics · 2006-09-04 10:13:02

Last night I tried to install 0.7.2 on a fairly new laptop (about two months), with hardware which is latest available.

One of the problems was the b44 module which is not loaded on startup, so internet was not working.

No problem because the distro I am using on this laptop is fast and nice enough to keep using it, but I was wondering how far away the new 0.8 version is, because this is probably more a moment to switch; especially because of the latest kernel with support for the audio hardware too..

Is there some release information available about new releases and when they will come out?

Jan

detto · 2006-09-04 11:32:44

also wondered when finally 0.8 will be released :? i just can hope those release schedules get more smaller, i mean release very half a yaer or so an updated ftp-install cd would be nice

cheers,
detto

Lontronics · 2006-09-04 11:36:04

There is a lot changed the last months as multi-kernel support standard built in in the kernel (hope this is switched on in the new arch kernel), udev support, latest drivers for audio, network etc...

Dusty · 2006-09-04 12:28:35

It happens kind of at random. I suspect they'll want to get xorg 7.1 out of testing before they make a release. Other than that, it could be within a few weeks or a few months.

Dusty

patroclo7 · 2006-09-04 12:33:41

If you have arch already installed, there is no use of a new release, since you can get a perfectly updated system with a simple command.
Moreover if your network problem is merely that a module is not automatically loaded, well you need only to load it with 'modprobe b44' and you can autoload it at the next boot, listing it in MODULES in rc.conf.

In general, new releases are relevant only for new users, since they are merely installations systems with a certain snapshot of tha apps (not a snapshot more stable or perfect than any other abitrary snapshot).

Actually, I continue to install from a 0.7 CD on my new machines, simply because I am to eager to burn new CDs only to get, after the first update, the same identical result.

Therefore, I agree with arch policy of seldom releases. May be that they should be not called releases at all, but merely installation CDs: it would be clear that there is no great advantage in using an updated instalation CD.

Lontronics · 2006-09-04 12:38:29

Xorg is one of my reasons too.

Then I also see a topic about the new 2.6.18 kernel, which will come soon...

I think with a little work, and may be only modprobe b44, which should be enough when the module is compiled, I should get it to work.

But Xorg7.1 is a big move also, and therefor I would rather start with a clean 7.1 system then a 0.72 Arch which is updated.

But that is also because I do want to keep my system as clean as possible

@Dusty, our 'forumadviser' (nice title ), you mean there is no calender or something the developers are following to make new releases?

Jan

tomk · 2006-09-04 12:43:28

I'll just add a couple of things here, from the perspective of a reasonably long-standing non-dev Arch user.

Firstly, the version number that you install becomes irrelevant as soon as you do your first pacman -Syu. Remember, it's a rolling release system, as described very effectively by neotuli here. Simply by doing regular updates, I have "upgraded" from 0.6, which I actually installed, to all releases since, and will continue to do so.

Secondly, Arch likes new features, and in general enables them as soon as they are considered stable, whether they are in the kernel or some other app. So you won't necessarily have to wait for that moment when the devs decide to take a release snapshot and call it "0.8" - new features arrive constantly, with every update. If there's something on the bleeding edge that you really want included in Arch, submit a feature request - there's a good chance it's already being worked on.

For release-related info, the best places to go are the Arch home page, the mailing list, and the dev blog.

arooaroo · 2006-09-04 13:12:16

Lontronics wrote:

Last night I tried to install 0.7.2 on a fairly new laptop (about two months), with hardware which is latest available.
One of the problems was the b44 module which is not loaded on startup, so internet was not working.
No problem because the distro I am using on this laptop is fast and nice enough to keep using it, but I was wondering how far away the new 0.8 version is, because this is probably more a moment to switch; especially because of the latest kernel with support for the audio hardware too..
Is there some release information available about new releases and when they will come out?
Jan

If your modules aren't auto-detected then you simply add them to the modules=() array in /etc/rc.conf.

I have the b44 module loaded in this fashion since day 1 of me becoming an Arch user.

Insane-Boy · 2006-09-04 13:34:46

Will new version of pacman be release with arch 0.8?

bigbob73 · 2006-09-04 13:45:08

patroclo7 wrote:

If you have arch already installed, there is no use of a new release, since you can get a perfectly updated system with a simple command.
Moreover if your network problem is merely that a module is not automatically loaded, well you need only to load it with 'modprobe b44' and you can autoload it at the next boot, listing it in MODULES in rc.conf.
In general, new releases are relevant only for new users, since they are merely installations systems with a certain snapshot of tha apps (not a snapshot more stable or perfect than any other abitrary snapshot).
Actually, I continue to install from a 0.7 CD on my new machines, simply because I am to eager to burn new CDs only to get, after the first update, the same identical result.
Therefore, I agree with arch policy of seldom releases. May be that they should be not called releases at all, but merely installation CDs: it would be clear that there is no great advantage in using an updated instalation CD.

This was a hard concept for some in gentoo as well. I much prefer not having to do a complete upgrade, as it usually will bork something in your system. the arch (and gentoo) way is much simpler, and is MUCH less a headache.

dtw · 2006-09-04 13:53:37

We are all, in essence, running an alpha release of 0.8 If you are using [testing] then you can call it a beta

I think big installer improvements were planned for 0.8 and I know phrak is working on that and a million and one other things. I hope that the devs won't delay a 0.8 release with 2.6.18 and latest xorg purely for an installer update that, no disrespect to phrak, may not be ready for sometime.

Romashka · 2006-09-04 14:41:00

From Arch Linux Newsletter, Feb 05, 2006:

We plan on having maintenance releases every 3 months, their version numbers will be X.Y.Z (like 0.7.1). Major releases will happen when there are large changes to the installation environment (udev, initrd, installer). The next maintenance release will be in April.

So, if this decission is still valid, I suppose 0.7.3 will be released within 3-8 weeks.

scarecrow · 2006-09-04 14:42:00

Like tomk, I installed 0.6 more than a couple of years ago, and by -Syu ing I have the current version, without the need of reeinstalling. I just had to follow the wiki for a few major upgrades.
So far, this "rolling distro" is rolling more than fine...

Lontronics · 2006-09-04 14:47:46

On other distro's I had the feeling it was good to do a fresh install sometimes. I am always tweaking, trying new programs, installing and removing programs etc....

Therefor I think it is good to do a fresh install sometimes; as scarecrow and tomk installing a couple of years ago and still using the same upgraded version.... sorry, but does not feel good to me.

You do not have problems with old files, libraries which are not removed because of wrong dependency settings, temporary files somewhere etc...? No broken systems, no performance differences or whatelse?
Not that I have them, but I can imagine that after some years using a system, this could be the case.

For a Windows system (sorry mentioning it....) it is even impossible to keep working a few weeks without loosing performance, blue screens etc....

But separate from that, I think the new release which will be out some day would be a nice start.

Jan.

liem · 2006-09-04 15:02:49

I always wonder as this type of thread pop up with regularity, why not make ftp-install standard? Good internet access is already almost required already.

A live-cd to partition and with pacman to install base or whatever needed/wanted.

fk · 2006-09-04 15:04:53

liem wrote:

I always wonder as this type of thread pop up with regularity, why not make ftp-install standard? Good internet access is already almost required already.
A live-cd to partition and with pacman to install base or whatever needed/wanted.

FTP Install works not for all, personally not for me, I have an extern USB CDROM, and The Arch CD can not Loat the network module

Romashka · 2006-09-04 15:13:53

Lontronics wrote:

On other distro's I had the feeling it was good to do a fresh install sometimes. I am always tweaking, trying new programs, installing and removing programs etc....
Therefor I think it is good to do a fresh install sometimes; as scarecrow and tomk installing a couple of years ago and still using the same upgraded version.... sorry, but does not feel good to me.

This is good for Windows because it doesn't have package management system. In Linux this is not a problem to try something. Only bugs in packages can break something when installing/uninstalling, but this happens very rarely (and comparing to Windows - veeeery rarely).

Lontronics wrote:

You do not have problems with old files, libraries which are not removed because of wrong dependency settings, temporary files somewhere etc...? No broken systems, no performance differences or whatelse?
Not that I have them, but I can imagine that after some years using a system, this could be the case.

Of course there are some config files left after uninstalling, but they are easy to find and remove. I had cases when I broken something when installing (for example mkinitcpio) but never when uninstalling.

Lontronics wrote:

For a Windows system (sorry mentioning it....) it is even impossible to keep working a few weeks without loosing performance, blue screens etc.....

My co-worker has Windows 98 Second Edition which works almost 8 years without reinstall. Serious problems began to annoy only last year. But there is another case - our client killed her WinXP in one day! So it depends on how [[hard]] to use this M$ crap.

I like to have my system clean, but reinstalling is not solution for me, because then I had to tweak many things again, but I'm so lazy and can forgot something.

Lontronics · 2006-09-04 15:31:10

That is my problem too; the reason why I am asking

Romashka · 2006-09-04 15:33:01

My wishlist for 0.8:
released in first months of 2007
full UTF8 support in plain text console (ncurses, mc, coreutils, nano etc.)
pacman 3 + i18n
new installer + i18n
KDE4 (with splitted packages)
gcc dependency replaced with libgcc
dependencies for many packages reviewed and if necessary - changes made to eliminate those that are optional
Archie is official Arch Linux LiveCD
Arch Linux CD 2 with GNOME, KDE, XFCE
Arch Linux DVD with all packages
But we all should have patience and do all our best to fix bugs and improve Arch even more (not forgetting about KISS principle and Arch's philosophy).

tomk · 2006-09-04 17:47:20

Lontronics wrote:

I am always tweaking, trying new programs, installing and removing programs etc....

Me too.

Lontronics wrote:

Therefor I think it is good to do a fresh install sometimes

I've never had to.

Lontronics wrote:

as scarecrow and tomk installing a couple of years ago and still using the same upgraded version.... sorry, but does not feel good to me.

Feels good to me - and I'm the one using it .

Lontronics wrote:

You do not have problems with old files, libraries which are not removed because of wrong dependency settings, temporary files somewhere etc...?

Well, I'm sure there are old files around, but they generally don't cause me any problems - if they do, I sort them out.

Lontronics wrote:

No broken systems, no performance differences or whatelse?

No.

Lontronics wrote:

I think the new release which will be out some day would be a nice start.

And for me, the "new release" will arrive gradually, over several updates, and I'll continue on my merry way.

dtw · 2006-09-04 17:51:26

Could happen - lets work towards it:

Romashka wrote:

released in first months of 2007
full UTF8 support in plain text console (ncurses, mc, coreutils, nano etc.)
pacman 3 + i18n
new installer + i18n
gcc dependency replaced with libgcc

Never gonna happen - let's forget about it and concentrate on the things above:

Romashka wrote:

KDE4 (with splitted packages)
dependencies for many packages reviewed and if necessary - changes made to eliminate those that are optional
Archie is official Arch Linux LiveCD
Arch Linux CD 2 with GNOME, KDE, XFCE
Arch Linux DVD with all packages

Romashka · 2006-09-04 18:43:06

Why do you think that some things never gonna happen?
AFAIK KDE4 will have splitted packages and it will exist in 2007. I assume there will be KDE4 packages in Arch, or am I wrong?
As for Arch DVD - what's wrong with having it (for people with low bandwith)? It is the same CD + all other packages from official repos, IMHO it will be very easy to create it.
As for Archie as official Arch's LiveCD - you are one of its devs, so maybe you can explain why this will never gonna happen?
Maybe not in 0.8, but in 1.0?

Did you noticed that I sorted the wishlist by priority (in my opinion)?

tpowa · 2006-09-05 06:28:41

0.8 will come when it's finished
lot of work was going on the last weeks in the background
initcpio is one big thing in 0.8, it have to work else a new release is not worth.
kernel 2.6.18 will be initcpio only and then a new release can happen.
new install cd will probably use archboot as creation utility, so all architectures (i686,64 and ppc) will use the same install environment.
Also this means udev detection on install media.

some tweaking of the installer has been done already, but nothing breaking new.
Sure updated packages will be included.

If you run now pacman -Syu you already have these features on your pc.
People with brand new hardware will probably have the most advantage of a new install cd because of the newer kernel on boot media.

I can't tell you an exact date for a new release, but it will be after 2.6.18 goes into current.

greetings
tpowa

benplaut · 2006-09-05 07:12:53

Romashka wrote:

Why do you think that some things never gonna happen?

because they are to do with addons, not part of arch. community is free to work on them if desired (with the exception of official archie, but what does it matter?)

Cotton · 2006-09-06 18:09:02

fk wrote:

FTP Install works not for all, personally not for me, I have an external USB CDROM, and the Arch CD cannot load the network module.

If you raise a bug report for it, then you stand more of a chance of it being fixed in the next release.

Arch Linux

#1 2006-09-04 10:13:02

Arch 0.8 far away?

#2 2006-09-04 11:32:44

Re: Arch 0.8 far away?

#3 2006-09-04 11:36:04

Re: Arch 0.8 far away?

#4 2006-09-04 12:28:35

Re: Arch 0.8 far away?

#5 2006-09-04 12:33:41

Re: Arch 0.8 far away?

#6 2006-09-04 12:38:29

Re: Arch 0.8 far away?

#7 2006-09-04 12:43:28

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#8 2006-09-04 13:12:16

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#9 2006-09-04 13:34:46

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#12 2006-09-04 14:41:00

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#24 2006-09-05 07:12:53

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#25 2006-09-06 18:09:02

Re: Arch 0.8 far away?

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