Mono as in the one?

Mr Green · 2006-09-07 16:38:22

I am getting more interested in Mono (yes I am mad!) does anyone in Arch use it?

Should I learn C++ or C# ?

Python to me is a lot cleaner, easier to code, but can you compile in the same way as mono....?

Know that more apps are being built based on it (ok I did not mention .NET so there!)

Should I believe the hype!

thoughts

phrakture · 2006-09-07 16:40:28

Mr Green wrote:

Python to me is a lot cleaner, easier to code, but can you compile in the same way as mono....?

Actually, kinda. *.pyc files are pretty much as "compiled" as a .NET/Mono app ever gets. It's the same as a java .class file. It's half-way compiled. The difference is that python adds a convienance layer here, and is "compiled" on the fly.

Mr Green · 2006-09-07 16:49:58

emmm so forget mono just use python ?

Just thought C# would be cool to learn thats all...

phrakture · 2006-09-07 17:37:13

Mr Green wrote:

Just thought C# would be cool to learn thats all...

I tend to use alot of C# at work. It's similar to java... has some nifty features (delegates, the using statement, built-in 'lock' for thread sync), but mostly it's a tad too high level for me. It's great for writing GUI apps though.

Mr Green · 2006-09-07 17:50:09

Ahhh ok

/me reads learn C# in ten minutes

Blaasvis · 2006-09-07 17:56:00

programming languages do not really matter, you should learn to design and program in a good way. any language is suitable, with one exception..... PERL(because i hate it).

Mr Green · 2006-09-07 17:59:44

lol If you do not like Perl you will love Ruby ;-)

No dude i'm sticking to logo .....

Dusty · 2006-09-07 18:34:35

Blaasvis wrote:

programming languages do not really matter, you should learn to design and program in a good way. any language is suitable, with one exception..... PERL(because i hate it).

Well said!!!

Dusty

Mr Green · 2006-09-07 18:40:15

py# emmm

pauldonnelly · 2006-09-07 19:20:05

Blaasvis wrote:

programming languages do not really matter, you should learn to design and program in a good way. any language is suitable, with one exception..... PERL(because i hate it).

Which is why you're programming in GW BASIC, right?

A good language is no substitute for a good programmer, but it's ludicrous to pretend that all languages are equivalent past the "Hello, World" stage.

phrakture · 2006-09-07 20:50:19

pauldonnelly wrote:

Blaasvis wrote:
programming languages do not really matter, you should learn to design and program in a good way. any language is suitable, with one exception..... PERL(because i hate it).
Which is why you're programming in GW BASIC, right?
A good language is no substitute for a good programmer, but it's ludicrous to pretend that all languages are equivalent past the "Hello, World" stage.

I agree completely. Show me... well, any string manipulation app in Erlang and I will show you the same thing in perl in about 5% of that code. We can do the same with GUI apps in nasm assembly vs GUI apps in python. I can go on and on.

Saying all programming languages are good, at a general level, is like saying "all power tools are good" - it sounds great until you actually have to use that circular saw to hammer in a nail.

Dusty · 2006-09-07 23:01:11

phrakture wrote:

Saying all programming languages are good, at a general level, is like saying "all power tools are good" - it sounds great until you actually have to use that circular saw to hammer in a nail.

All languages are good for something, no language is good for everything (though Python's only downfall seems to be in extremely speed-dependent real-time type apps..... ok, I'm a zealot :-D). Blaasvis' comment, when taken in context (or in the context I read it) really seems to imply that knowing what you are doing is more important than the languages that you know.

A good programmer knows which language to use for a specific task. Its not mutually exclusive.

Whatever extraneous arguments there are, the salient point here is that PERL sucks.

Money is the root of all tacos.

Dusty

cactus · 2006-09-07 23:22:58

Did someone mention tacos?
mmmm...tacos...

Dusty · 2006-09-07 23:28:52

I wondered how long before you would reply.... do you really read every single thread, lurking, waiting for the word tacos to come up and then you pounce, or do you have some kind of script that monitors it and sends you an e-mail?

Dusty

T-Dawg · 2006-09-07 23:50:26

Dusty wrote:

....or do you have some kind of script that monitors it and sends you an e-mail?
Dusty

cactus on another thread wrote:

*points at his email inbox*
1..
2..
3..
umm...
4..
5..

hmmm....

Dusty · 2006-09-07 23:53:08

Does anybody feel sorry for Mr. Green's original post yet? :-S

Dusty

diffyQ · 2006-09-08 03:48:47

Mr Green wrote:

I am getting more interested in Mono (yes I am mad!) does anyone in Arch use it?
Should I learn C++ or C# ?
Python to me is a lot cleaner, easier to code, but can you compile in the same way as mono....?

you might want to check out the boo or iron python. both will allow you to do .NET/mono programming in python (almost: boo syntax is based on but not the same as python). i'm neither a python nor a .NET nor a python programmer, but this seemed like a good way to learn a little of both.

allucid · 2006-09-08 04:47:05

boo and IronPython are for windows.

diffyQ · 2006-09-08 05:14:19

allucid wrote:

boo and IronPython are for windows.

hm, good point. i'd only just heard of IronPython, but somehow i missed that on the boo side.

Mr Green · 2006-09-08 06:38:07

allucid wrote:

boo and IronPython are for windows.

You sure

Boo looks interesting ....

IronPython .. Well Jim Huguinn works for Microsoft (.NET) emmm

toxic · 2006-09-08 10:59:34

phrakture wrote:

I agree completely. Show me... well, any string manipulation app in Erlang and I will show you the same thing in perl in about 5% of that code. We can do the same with GUI apps in nasm assembly vs GUI apps in python. I can go on and on.
Saying all programming languages are good, at a general level, is like saying "all power tools are good" - it sounds great until you actually have to use that circular saw to hammer in a nail.

Possibly Erlang isn't about string manipulation. It's a functional language, and thus offers several asynchronous ways of concurrency etc. In my opinion, they main beauty with a functional language is the usually common list comprehension, which really does in one line what any iterative language would do in 5. Personally I like developing apps a language like Java or C*.

Mr Green · 2006-09-08 11:03:56

Can we like get back on topic...

Boo looks interesting based on python so much cleaner than Mono say .. has anyone here tried it ?

Dusty · 2006-09-08 13:26:19

I think you're a little confused as to what Mono actually is. So am I, actually; I've never cared enough to really look into it. But this is my understanding:

.NET is a virtual machine. This makes it very much similar to the Java virtual machine, or to .pyc as phrakture mentioned.

Mono is a virtual machine. It is the same kind of virtual machine as .NET, except one runs on Windows and one runs on Linux.

CLI (The Common Language Isomething) is a bytecode language that is interpretted by the .NET (or mono, or other implemented) virtual machine. Its very much the same as .class files in Java. Or it may be higher level than that and it compiles to something that is very much the same as .class files in Java, I'm not sure which.

C++, C#, Python, and Boo (there may be others) are all programming languages. All can be compiled into CLI in a similar way that java files are compiled to .class files. Python is compiled by ironPython, but it is still the Python language syntax. However, none of these languages HAS to be compiled to CLI.

In short, the languages are different from the virtual machine. So saying that Boo is cleaner than Mono is a lot like trying to compare apples to beetles.

So if you are looking for a programming language, you can use any of those mentioned, or you can use any other one. If you want it to run on mono for whatever reason, you have to make sure it compiles to CLI that mono can understand.

There's another issue that I haven't discussed -- libraries. Mono, like the java virtual machine, is shipped with a bunch of standard libraries. These provide functions for basic data manipulation, I/O, gui design, networking etc etc etc. I assume the libraries for mono are in CLI. This means they can be accessed by any language that mono(or .NET) knows how to compile to CLI. However, these libraries are different from the standard libraries for eg: Python and C++. Therefore, C++ or Python code that run with g++ or cpython are not likely to run in Mono and vice versa. However, the syntax itself is the same.

Make sense?

Dusty

phrakture · 2006-09-08 15:15:53

Two clarifications:

Dusty wrote:

CLI (The Common Language Isomething) is a bytecode language that is interpretted by the .NET

This is actually "IL" or "Intermediate Language" (fancy naming, eh?). CLI is something different and I think it actually implys the interpreter... from MSDN:

The Common Language Infrastructure (CLI) is a specification describing how applications written in multiple high-level languages may be executed in different system environments without the need to rewrite the applications to take into consideration the unique characteristics of those environments.

/shrug

Point #2:

Dusty wrote:

C++, C#, Python, and Boo (there may be others) are all programming languages. All can be compiled into [IL] in a similar way that java files are compiled to .class files.

Yup, but don't forget J#, Perl.NET Cobol.NET, Lua.NET, etc etc - this is the coolest part about the .NET framework, IMO. Here's a big fat list: http://www.dotnetlanguages.net/DNL/Resources.aspx

Closer on topic. Learning C# is ok. It's nothing fancy or different (like Oz or Erlang or anything), but it gets the job done. The biggest benefit is learning the .NET framework APIs which can be used across all languages in the link above (there's alot).

clarence · 2006-09-08 15:57:43

If your a "can't live without a fancy IDE" kinda person then you will more than likely enjoy monodevelop as well.

Arch Linux

#1 2006-09-07 16:38:22

Mono as in the one?

#2 2006-09-07 16:40:28

Re: Mono as in the one?

#3 2006-09-07 16:49:58

Re: Mono as in the one?

#4 2006-09-07 17:37:13

Re: Mono as in the one?

#5 2006-09-07 17:50:09

Re: Mono as in the one?

#6 2006-09-07 17:56:00

Re: Mono as in the one?

#7 2006-09-07 17:59:44

Re: Mono as in the one?

#8 2006-09-07 18:34:35

Re: Mono as in the one?

#9 2006-09-07 18:40:15

Re: Mono as in the one?

#10 2006-09-07 19:20:05

Re: Mono as in the one?

#11 2006-09-07 20:50:19

Re: Mono as in the one?

#12 2006-09-07 23:01:11

Re: Mono as in the one?

#13 2006-09-07 23:22:58

Re: Mono as in the one?

#14 2006-09-07 23:28:52

Re: Mono as in the one?

#15 2006-09-07 23:50:26

Re: Mono as in the one?

#16 2006-09-07 23:53:08

Re: Mono as in the one?

#17 2006-09-08 03:48:47

Re: Mono as in the one?

#18 2006-09-08 04:47:05

Re: Mono as in the one?

#19 2006-09-08 05:14:19

Re: Mono as in the one?

#20 2006-09-08 06:38:07

Re: Mono as in the one?

#21 2006-09-08 10:59:34

Re: Mono as in the one?

#22 2006-09-08 11:03:56

Re: Mono as in the one?

#23 2006-09-08 13:26:19

Re: Mono as in the one?

#24 2006-09-08 15:15:53

Re: Mono as in the one?

#25 2006-09-08 15:57:43

Re: Mono as in the one?

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