[split] Frugalware FUD

kensai · 2006-09-04 14:15:58

JGC wrote:

I don't think 2.16 will get into arch within the next 4 weeks. Arjan and I are extremely busy and I'm on a 3-week holiday trip starting from next week.

Ok forget what I said about the effectiveness of Arch and it's fast update lets just move to Frugalware. 8)

hussam · 2006-09-04 14:47:12

kensai wrote:

JGC wrote:
I don't think 2.16 will get into arch within the next 4 weeks. Arjan and I are extremely busy and I'm on a 3-week holiday trip starting from next week.
Ok forget what I said about the effectiveness of Arch and it's fast update lets just move to Frugalware. 8)

I haven't tried Frugalware, is that a archlinux fork or a slackware fork?

test1000 · 2006-09-04 15:15:45

They have an updated pacman with additional features. They have the slackware init scripts(maybe a bit modified), they DON'T have aur, but have about 3500 packages nonetheless. They have pkgbuilds like arch but with a bunch of time-saver commands(well that was the idea anyway). They include a bunch of auto-tools so that you can keep your fear of linux.

they use darcs to develop, not cvs. they have a much smaller community. It seems they develop at a furious pace. (atleast the lead dev develops like a rocket ). They are not so locked up in rules & regulations. Yeah that's just an impression. Another impression is that they don't develop as carefully, but i wouldn't know since it's been years since i tried the distro.

kensai · 2006-09-06 19:08:19

pressh wrote:

which I consider trolling. Pacman 3 is not finished yet, it is in alpha or at best at beta stage atm. Latest stable pacman is in Arch.

This is trolling, man I know vmiklos the head dev of frugalware, and I have worked for them before for a short period of time though, and the have the pacman 3 that is not finished and have finished it. Look at all the patches they applied, look at all the changes they made and how they stabilized pacman 3 and then they send those patches back to Arch, but they aren't even looking at them. Go away and troll somewhere else, and please verify your facts.

chrismortimore · 2006-09-06 20:08:13

kensai wrote:

Ok forget what I said about the effectiveness of Arch and it's fast update lets just move to Frugalware. 8)

I think it is unfair to make statements like this. As far as I am aware, being an Arch Linux dev is not a job, it is a passtime, and the devs should not be expected to plan their personal lives around the release schedule of projects that are in no way under their control. Surely if this doesn't suit your needs, you should either gracefully move on to pastures new or lend a helping hand.

Romashka · 2006-09-06 20:39:03

kensai wrote:

Ok forget what I said about the effectiveness of Arch and it's fast update lets just move to Frugalware. 8)

Isn't it that distro that had Xorg 7.1 in repo before new ATI and NVidia drivers with 3D acceleration support for 7.1 were released? No, thanks! I don't need superspeed that costs such breaks. What's good in releasing new things that breaks systems for more than 90% users?
And then it tooks them few weeks to wait for new drivers and trying to do a workaround for NVIDIA cards. Why the hell it was so big need to try 7.1 on all users and not just put it in Testing until new drivers released?
And they also had all GTK apps broken when 2.10 was released in Current.

Can't you just wait when new GNOME + all dbus-dependent packages will hit testing?

kensai · 2006-09-06 23:54:36

Romashka wrote:

Isn't it that distro that had Xorg 7.1 in repo before new ATI and NVidia drivers with 3D acceleration support for 7.1 were released? No, thanks! I don't need superspeed that costs such breaks. What's good in releasing new things that breaks systems for more than 90% users?
And then it tooks them few weeks to wait for new drivers and trying to do a workaround for NVIDIA cards. Why the hell it was so big need to try 7.1 on all users and not just put it in Testing until new drivers released?
And they also had all GTK apps broken when 2.10 was released in Current.

Err.. hmmm. *cough*FUD*cough* The upgrade to Xorg 7.1 was made for the 0.5 beta not for a release, a beta does not need to be 100% working. 0.4 is still supported and regular updates are being made to it. So the release is 0.4 0.5 will be released soon and then you can see if they have anything broken, so go get yourself some new complains.

To all other especially chrismortimore:
The "Ok forget what I said about the effectiveness of Arch and it's fast update lets just move to Frugalware." comment was more of a joke, but is my fault, that I didn't made it more obvious it was a joke, so sorry all. I still like Arch Linux it is in my top 5 Linux distros that are doing the right thing. Even though I dislike some things, the things I like about it are much more. And no I won't move to frugalware. Not yet.

test1000 · 2006-09-07 12:26:17

And they also had all GTK apps broken when 2.10 was released in Current.

Yeah, the only difference is that frugalware users are supposed to use stable if they don't want problems, and when 5.0 is released; all of that goes into the stable repo. Current is more like "a current stream"; it's more like testing is in archlinux. the difference is that frugalware already has gnome 2.16 in their "testing" repo(which is called current).

kensai · 2006-09-07 19:13:44

I made the switch to Frugalware, a better pacman, a better more polished system even using current, a better init system (So great and fast and clean) and a great consistent look and feel, makes frugalware a top of the line distro, it has progressed a lot since I last used Frugalware 0.1 and 0.2 .

And the greatest thing in Frugalware is that I am running GNOME 2.16 release since yesterday @ night. I made the switch, now my distros are Frugalware and Gentoo. The best of the best.

detto · 2006-09-07 20:03:26

kensai, ull come back pretty soon without something like the AUR imo :twisted:

tomk · 2006-09-07 20:58:14

kensai wrote:

And no I won't move to frugalware. Not yet.

kensai wrote:

I made the switch to Frugalware

Bebo · 2006-09-07 21:06:59

test1000 wrote:

They have the slackware init scripts(maybe a bit modified)

I'd just like to clarify one thing*. Before I switched from Slack to Arch, I did install Frugalware in vmware just to see whether they used BSD or SysV initscripts, and I saw that they use the SysV style, whereas Slackware uses (a slightly modified version) of the BSD style. This was maybe two months ago, so unless they've changed they do not use the same style as Slackware. Although they might use the same actual scripts, that I did not check, so test1000 may be correct anyway .

_______________
* Important for me, since this one fact made me choose Arch and not Frugalware.

test1000 · 2006-09-07 21:29:39

no your right

stonedz · 2006-09-07 21:30:16

I don't understand, is this a thread about differences between frugalware and arch, or simply a thread by someone very confused about his decisions and points of view about the distro he likes the most?

I'm quite a new Arch user but I'm used to distos' fora, and it's good to see how democratical and polite this forum is...even if I think kensai's statements are pretty much nonsense.

What's the point if I say " Arch is bad, XYZ is better, I made the switch, I'm happy now." , in Arch forum? I think it is useless, and quite annoying to read for others. A good point might has been a thread proposing imprvements, criticizing dev's decisions, or something like that (Yes I know this thread is splitted from another one, but my point of view remains the same). I obviously respect everyone's point of view, but this is mine

phrakture · 2006-09-07 21:46:59

stonedz - if you check the topic, it indicates that this thread is [split] from another thread. I moved it here because it was cluttering up another thread and didn't belong there... so the flow might now work that well...

Regardless, your last paragraph is spot on. That's the reason I moved this.

kensai · 2006-09-07 22:33:49

detto wrote:

kensai, ull come back pretty soon without something like the AUR imo :twisted:

HEHE, all the packages in AUR are already in Frgalware main repo, that is one thing I hated about Arch Linux, poorly implemented AUR with so many outdated packages and some great updated packages that never make it to main repo nor community even. But I might get back who knows.

tomk: yep I said "not yet" though, so there was a possibility. Still the curiosity killed me and I had to isntall it and see how it has progressed and it got a WOW!. Frugalware is great, still it isn't based on anything now, just started as Slackware with pacman but now, is independent. Is great how many packages they add to the repos everyday, and always keep them to their latest stable version.

Frugalware is a must try. 8)

chrismortimore · 2006-09-07 22:37:14

kensai wrote:

HEHE, all the packages in AUR are already in Frgalware main repo, that is one thing I hated about Arch Linux, poorly implemented AUR with so many outdated packages and some great updated packages that never make it to main repo nor community even. But I might get back who knows.
tomk: yep I said "not yet" though, so there was a possibility. Still the curiosity killed me and I had to isntall it and see how it has progressed and it got a WOW!. Frugalware is great, still it isn't based on anything now, just started as Slackware with pacman but now, is independent. Is great how many packages they add to the repos everyday, and always keep them to their latest stable version.
Frugalware is a must try. 8)

If Frugalware is so much better, and Arch is so bad, what inspires you to still inhabit Arch's forum? Obviously you are no longer using it, so surely this counts as just spam.

cactus · 2006-09-07 22:40:03

chrismortimore wrote:

If Frugalware is so much better, and Arch is so bad, what inspires you to still inhabit Arch's forum?

Duh. It's because I am here.

so surely this counts as just spam.

Lies! This "counts" as spam..
*points at his email inbox*
1..
2..
3..
umm...
4..
5..

kensai · 2006-09-07 22:41:59

stonedz wrote:

even if I think kensai's statements are pretty much nonsense.
What's the point if I say " Arch is bad, XYZ is better, I made the switch, I'm happy now."

Sorry this deserved another post. I don't rememebr saying Arch is bad and XYZ is best period. If I said something like that it was just a constructive critique, go and see some other posts of mine, I clearly say "I love Arch Linux a lot, but htis part of Arch Linux I don't like this is bad."

I must say I maybe will be back to Arch soon, since it is a great, heck great not, AWESOME distribution. I don't suggest you should switch to Frugalware never, Arch is a good distro. Keep at it.

Anonymo · 2006-09-07 22:43:56

chrismortimore wrote:

kensai wrote:
HEHE, all the packages in AUR are already in Frgalware main repo, that is one thing I hated about Arch Linux, poorly implemented AUR with so many outdated packages and some great updated packages that never make it to main repo nor community even. But I might get back who knows.
tomk: yep I said "not yet" though, so there was a possibility. Still the curiosity killed me and I had to isntall it and see how it has progressed and it got a WOW!. Frugalware is great, still it isn't based on anything now, just started as Slackware with pacman but now, is independent. Is great how many packages they add to the repos everyday, and always keep them to their latest stable version.
Frugalware is a must try. 8)
If Frugalware is so much better, and Arch is so bad, what inspires you to still inhabit Arch's forum? Obviously you are no longer using it, so surely this counts as just spam.

well this is "linux" discussion.

phrakture · 2006-09-07 22:48:01

kensai wrote:

Sorry this deserved another post. I don't rememebr saying Arch is bad and XYZ is best period. If I said something like that it was just a constructive critique

Surely you jest.

"Arch is bad":

kensai wrote:

Ok forget what I said about the effectiveness of Arch and it's fast update

kensai wrote:

then they send those patches back to Arch, but they aren't even looking at them

kensai wrote:

that is one thing I hated about Arch Linux, poorly implemented AUR with so many outdated packages and some great updated packages that never make it to main repo nor community even.

"XYZ is best period":

kensai wrote:

I made the switch, now my distros are Frugalware and Gentoo. The best of the best.

I actually don't see anything constructive in there. In order to be "constructive" you need to "construct" - that is, propose solutions.

Dusty · 2006-09-07 22:54:56

This thread looks ilke something from f.g.o a bunch of people nattering on about their opinions like the other people reading the thread care about those opinions. Its mostly noise. Can I advise taking a step back before you post a reply and deciding if what you think you need to say really needs to be said?

Dusty

chrismortimore · 2006-09-07 22:58:49

Anonymo wrote:

well this is "linux" discussion.

True, but after leaving Debian, I didn't sit and tell all their users that X distribution was so much better, and that Debian was full of millions of holes.

And kensai's posts arn't even coherant, example:

kensai wrote:

Frugalware is a must try

kensai wrote:

I don't suggest you should switch to Frugalware never, Arch is a good distro. Keep at it.

To my mind, these two are some what contradictory, unless I greatly missed something.

Also, he complains about the distribution lacking certain things, and yet I havn't seen any evidence of him actually trying to better things (and if it turns out this statement is wrong, I whole-heartedly apologise). It is a community based distro after all.

I also get the feeling that this thread is due a lock, it's becoming rants (probably my fault) and isn't particularly productive...

stonedz · 2006-09-07 23:16:49

Well, as I said, I don't see any utility in this post, but this is only because the start was, in my opinion, very bad.

I consider this like a community response to kensai's opinion, opinion which is public. I also understand that is useless to post thousands of post telling how bad were <user>'s post etc etc. but since it seems that anyone here is polite I don't think that a lock is required.

Returning in topic: previous quoting of kensai's posts are self-exlplanatory.

test1000 · 2006-09-07 23:21:23

ok... since the man JGC is gone I hope someone else is working on this and will post PKGBUILD's to the forum. Then maybe some unofficial server will host them... This would also be nice for JGC as all the work would be done for him when he comes home from vacation God know he deserves it, handling the whole xorg mess. (well just restating what i've heard )

There is ONE thing i would like to come out of this though: The next time someone can't make a package(s) because of a/b or C and it is a high-profile package(s) which many people would want then PLEASE ,for the love of god, state so on the forum or mailinglist or wherever in GOOD TIME so us --the collaborators(beats 'users' doesn't it?) can HELP.

thank you.

Arch Linux

#1 2006-09-04 14:15:58

[split] Frugalware FUD

#2 2006-09-04 14:47:12

Re: [split] Frugalware FUD

#3 2006-09-04 15:15:45

Re: [split] Frugalware FUD

#4 2006-09-06 19:08:19

Re: [split] Frugalware FUD

#5 2006-09-06 20:08:13

Re: [split] Frugalware FUD

#6 2006-09-06 20:39:03

Re: [split] Frugalware FUD

#7 2006-09-06 23:54:36

Re: [split] Frugalware FUD

#8 2006-09-07 12:26:17

Re: [split] Frugalware FUD

#9 2006-09-07 19:13:44

Re: [split] Frugalware FUD

#10 2006-09-07 20:03:26

Re: [split] Frugalware FUD

#11 2006-09-07 20:58:14

Re: [split] Frugalware FUD

#12 2006-09-07 21:06:59

Re: [split] Frugalware FUD

#13 2006-09-07 21:29:39

Re: [split] Frugalware FUD

#14 2006-09-07 21:30:16

Re: [split] Frugalware FUD

#15 2006-09-07 21:46:59

Re: [split] Frugalware FUD

#16 2006-09-07 22:33:49

Re: [split] Frugalware FUD

#17 2006-09-07 22:37:14

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#18 2006-09-07 22:40:03

Re: [split] Frugalware FUD

#19 2006-09-07 22:41:59

Re: [split] Frugalware FUD

#20 2006-09-07 22:43:56

Re: [split] Frugalware FUD

#21 2006-09-07 22:48:01

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#22 2006-09-07 22:54:56

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#23 2006-09-07 22:58:49

Re: [split] Frugalware FUD

#24 2006-09-07 23:16:49

Re: [split] Frugalware FUD

#25 2006-09-07 23:21:23

Re: [split] Frugalware FUD

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