Why was python3 update to python 3.8

George3d6 · 2020-01-06 12:04:40

Hello,

I guess this is a bit of a new-bi question, but after 6 years of arch linux usage I'm really frustrated by this update and trying to understand the decision.

Basically, a whole bunch of packages important for a lot of things (numpy, scipy, sklearn, tensorflow, pytorch...etc) depend on python 3.7, and arch's version of the packages that work with 3.8 seem to, well, not work. Some of them straight up don't install (sklearn) others (numpy) seem to have weird bugs.

So why was python update to 3.8 so soon ? Considering that most distros are currently on 3.6, and 3.8 brings basically no important features but has a lot of compatibility costs.

I totally understand why you might want to give users the option for, say, 3 python versions (3.7, 3.8, 3.9), or why you wouldn't want to stick with an old version (3.6) when anything basically works with 3.7. But updating to 3.8 is basically f*** over anyone who uses a lot of python packages in the native environment (i.e. outside of a venv) for seemingly no benefits.

V1del · 2020-01-06 12:26:54

All of these should have Arch packages available that have been updated accordingly. Are you actually using those, and do you have a concrete example of an update "not working" or "not installing"?

If you used sudo pip as opposed to Arch packages then this is entirely expected.

Last edited by V1del (2020-01-06 12:28:38)

WorMzy · 2020-01-06 12:38:51

George3d6 wrote:

So why was python update to 3.8 so soon

ArchWiki wrote:

Arch Linux is an independently developed, x86-64 general-purpose GNU/Linux distribution that strives to provide the latest stable versions of most software by following a rolling-release model.

(https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Arch_Linux)
Emphasis added.

Upstream released a new version, Arch packaged it. This is not new.

Trilby · 2020-01-06 13:17:57

I use a lot of python packages. I do not feel fucked over. I don't feel fucked under either. Not fucked at all to tell the truth. It's a bit lonely here.

Sure, you can say this is a silly and stupid response. But hey, ask a silly and stupid (and inflammatory) question, get a silly and stupid answer.

Your previous thread on these forums, which you rudely blanked after the fact, suggested that you were doing partial upgrades and not properly maintaining your system. This same pattern could very likely cause all of the problems you are now venting about. So rather than fire off invective posts at the people who make the distro you use, why don't you take some time to learn to use it properly. I has been 6 years after all.

Last edited by Trilby (2020-01-06 13:18:33)

teckk · 2020-01-06 14:20:25

I just updated yesterday.

pacman -Si python-numpy
Repository      : extra
Name            : python-numpy
Version         : 1.18.0-1
Description     : Scientific tools for Python
Architecture    : x86_64
URL             : https://www.numpy.org/
Licenses        : custom
Groups          : None
Provides        : None
Depends On      : cblas  lapack  python
Optional Deps   : python-nose: testsuite
                  openblas: faster linear algebra
Conflicts With  : None
Replaces        : None
Download Size   : 3.29 MiB
Installed Size  : 20.63 MiB
Packager        : Felix Yan <felixonmars@archlinux.org>
Build Date      : Mon 23 Dec 2019 02:33:21 AM CST
Validated By    : MD5 Sum  SHA-256 Sum  Signature

pacman -Si python
Repository      : extra
Name            : python
Version         : 3.8.1-1
Description     : Next generation of the python high-level scripting language
Architecture    : x86_64
URL             : https://www.python.org/
Licenses        : custom
Groups          : None
Provides        : python3
Depends On      : expat  bzip2  gdbm  openssl  libffi  zlib  libnsl
Optional Deps   : python-setuptools
                  python-pip
                  sqlite
                  mpdecimal: for decimal
                  xz: for lzma
                  tk: for tkinter
Conflicts With  : None
Replaces        : python3
Download Size   : 37.16 MiB
Installed Size  : 151.84 MiB
Packager        : Felix Yan <felixonmars@archlinux.org>
Build Date      : Sat 21 Dec 2019 02:57:38 PM CST
Validated By    : MD5 Sum  SHA-256 Sum  Signature

Don't install python modules with pip. Unless you want to put them somewhere in $HOME. That is the biggest problem some arch users have with python. That's what pacman is for.

If there is a module that not in the repo or AUR, make a PKGBUILD for it and make a package with makepkg. Install that package with pacman. Then you are good to go. Even if the package does not work, you are still not system messed up.
Also AUR packages can be out of date for a few days until the maintainer updates it, or drops it.

https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/PKGBUILD
https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Makepkg
https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Python

Arch actually has a real handy way to keep python and friends up to date.

pacman -Syu

George3d6 · 2020-01-09 16:56:37

Trilby wrote:

I use a lot of python packages. I do not feel fucked over. I don't feel fucked under either. Not fucked at all to tell the truth. It's a bit lonely here.
Sure, you can say this is a silly and stupid response. But hey, ask a silly and stupid (and inflammatory) question, get a silly and stupid answer.
Your previous thread on these forums, which you rudely blanked after the fact, suggested that you were doing partial upgrades and not properly maintaining your system. This same pattern could very likely cause all of the problems you are now venting about. So rather than fire off invective posts at the people who make the distro you use, why don't you take some time to learn to use it properly. I has been 6 years after all.

Hmh, I believe I deleted a single post, because it was a failure of mine that lead to the error. I indeed made some mistakes on the previous systems I had installed (e.g. I had some python package installed as sudo since I couldn't find them in a repo or could not find the correct version), which on my current installation I haven't repeated, thus my partial amazement at the update breaking so many things despite having somewhat strict practice regarding python environment separation.

At any rate, I would say the issues here are not experienced by myself only, judging by a number of python packages in the official repository which are not working: https://www.archlinux.org/packages/comm … kit-learn/

But overall you are correct, in that complaining about it doesn't fix my issue and at the end of the day this current package version is certainly work for some/most/all-me people.

I have actually taken steps and addressed the issue and now have a fully working system, feel free to remove this post since it indeed serves no purpose.

loqs · 2020-01-09 17:26:24

George3d6 wrote:

At any rate, I would say the issues here are not experienced by myself only, judging by a number of python packages in the official repository which are not working: https://www.archlinux.org/packages/comm … kit-learn/

Is there a bug report for this issue?

eschwartz · 2020-01-09 17:40:03

George3d6 wrote:

At any rate, I would say the issues here are not experienced by myself only, judging by a number of python packages in the official repository which are not working: https://www.archlinux.org/packages/comm … kit-learn/

All you've done is posted a link to the existence of another repository package, then claimed that "it's not just me, other people are having problems with this package".

You have yet to progress to the "proof" stage, for example, proving that other people exist in the world who agree with you that this package or any other, is broken.

Furthermore, you have also neglected to say what, precisely, is broken about them.

...

At the moment, the only conclusion I can possibly conclude is that you're lying through your teeth. Feel free to prove me wrong by providing any information at all.

Last edited by eschwartz (2020-01-09 17:40:36)

Trilby · 2020-01-09 17:50:09

George3d6 wrote:

... on my current installation I haven't repeated

I'm glad I'm wrong about that then. But your first post hadn't provided any clarity that would suggest otherwise.

George3d6 wrote:

I would say the issues here are not experienced by myself only

We know that you would say that, as you did say that. But could you provide an example or evidence? Any example or evidence? Or even just a description of what the problem is?

It's even possible that you might be the only one experiencing the problem - and in that case, we'd still help! But we'd still need to know what the problem is.

George3d6 wrote:

I have actually taken steps and addressed the issue and now have a fully working system

What steps have you taken? If indeed other people might be facing the same problem, why wouldn't you want to share a solution with them?!

If your concern is indeed resolved, please mark your thread as SOLVED and share the solution so it can help others (this goes hand in hand with not blanking posts - old threads are a resource for others).

If your concern is not resolved, tell us about what it actually is so we can help.

Arch Linux

#1 2020-01-06 12:04:40

Why was python3 update to python 3.8

#2 2020-01-06 12:26:54

Re: Why was python3 update to python 3.8

#3 2020-01-06 12:38:51

Re: Why was python3 update to python 3.8

#4 2020-01-06 13:17:57

Re: Why was python3 update to python 3.8

#5 2020-01-06 14:20:25

Re: Why was python3 update to python 3.8

#6 2020-01-09 16:56:37

Re: Why was python3 update to python 3.8

#7 2020-01-09 17:26:24

Re: Why was python3 update to python 3.8

#8 2020-01-09 17:40:03

Re: Why was python3 update to python 3.8

#9 2020-01-09 17:50:09

Re: Why was python3 update to python 3.8

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