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#1 2021-04-06 06:54:39

Smoerrebroed
Member
From: Germany
Registered: 2011-07-24
Posts: 93

Trash on separate filesystem not accessible in GNOME/Nautilus 40?

Hi All,

it seems that since upgrading the GNOME 40 (those packages that have been updated already, including Nautilus), the filemanager will no longer allow moving files to trash rather than immediately deleting them.

On my system,

~/Downloads

is a symlink to

/var/data/Downloads

.

/var/data

, however, is a separate filesystem. That filesystem has a trash folder in its root:

$ ls -ld /var/data/.Trash
drwxrwx--T 3 root users 4096  6. Apr 08:42 /var/data/.Trash

This used to work just fine up until the recent upgrade, but now Nautilus will only offer to delete files right away. Has the requirement for the trash folder changed? I wasn't able to find any recent info on that topic, but perhaps I am missing something.

Cheers,

Smoerrebroed

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#2 2021-04-07 11:37:17

Smoerrebroed
Member
From: Germany
Registered: 2011-07-24
Posts: 93

Re: Trash on separate filesystem not accessible in GNOME/Nautilus 40?

100+ views and no response. Am I the only person experiencing this?

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#3 2021-04-07 12:01:51

Morn
Member
Registered: 2012-09-02
Posts: 711

Re: Trash on separate filesystem not accessible in GNOME/Nautilus 40?

A separate partition for /var is something that was recommended for Linux in the 1990s. So I don't think a lot of people have that kind of partition setup today. Therefore the Gnome devs probably did not check this either...

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#4 2021-04-08 17:47:20

Smoerrebroed
Member
From: Germany
Registered: 2011-07-24
Posts: 93

Re: Trash on separate filesystem not accessible in GNOME/Nautilus 40?

Just to be clear: I don't have a separate partition for /var but my main data store (4 TB SSD) is mounted under /var/data (for lack of a better place to mount this to) and has folders that are symlinked to from my user's home folder. As I said: This worked perfectly up until the last GNOME update as outlined here: https://specifications.freedesktop.org/ … c-1.0.html

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#5 2021-04-08 18:34:25

Morn
Member
Registered: 2012-09-02
Posts: 711

Re: Trash on separate filesystem not accessible in GNOME/Nautilus 40?

That still sounds like a very non-standard setup to me. Not exactly something recommended by the Arch installation guide.

I think you need to open a bug report at the Gnome project; there is probably not much Arch can do about this upstream issue.

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#6 2021-04-08 20:21:58

Smoerrebroed
Member
From: Germany
Registered: 2011-07-24
Posts: 93

Re: Trash on separate filesystem not accessible in GNOME/Nautilus 40?

Guess that's what I'll do then. I was just wondering whether it's only happening to me. And FWIW: I guess I would run into the same issue as long as my data is somehow on a separate filesystem, whether it's mounted directly under my home folder or not.

Last edited by Smoerrebroed (2021-04-09 05:02:37)

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#7 2021-04-08 21:10:52

Morn
Member
Registered: 2012-09-02
Posts: 711

Re: Trash on separate filesystem not accessible in GNOME/Nautilus 40?

A few months ago I have finally given up on KDE and Gnome (the desktop at least; I still use Gnome apps) for good and switched to a regular window manager (JWM) because of all the bugs in those desktop environments: KDE can never get Wayland support working properly, Gnome is unusable without shell extensions that break with every major upgrade.

Have you tried Budgie? That seems to work a little better than KDE and Gnome right now. Although personally, as a KDE (and sometimes Gnome) user since 1997, I must say I am no longer convinced that Linux desktop environments are such a good idea or even needed. Somehow they always become buggy bloatware in the end…

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#8 2021-04-10 12:05:23

flittermice
Member
From: Vienna
Registered: 2013-09-07
Posts: 13

Re: Trash on separate filesystem not accessible in GNOME/Nautilus 40?

Hi Smörrebröd,

I have a very similar setup like you and I don't find it very special. I just don't like to buy a 8 TB SSD ;-)

Guess why I found your message?
This is exactly what happens to me since the Gnome 40 upgrade.

I tried two setups which both don't work in the same way:
a) a symlink to the HDD directory
b) a bind mount of the HDD directory

Using "rmtrash" in the same directory on the command line works as expected so it is definitely the new GNOME that broke it.

After a few years of GNOME (which I really liked) I really think of going back to XFCE again.
(Another very distracting issue is that I can't use shell scripts from Nautilus because since GNOME 40 they always start in $HOME and not in the current dir.)

Cheers,
Flittemice

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#9 2021-04-10 12:47:19

Morn
Member
Registered: 2012-09-02
Posts: 711

Re: Trash on separate filesystem not accessible in GNOME/Nautilus 40?

flittermice wrote:

I really think of going back to XFCE again.

XFCE is no longer as lightweight as it used to be. I think you will find it has changed and not for the better.

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#10 2021-04-10 15:29:47

flittermice
Member
From: Vienna
Registered: 2013-09-07
Posts: 13

Re: Trash on separate filesystem not accessible in GNOME/Nautilus 40?

The lightweightness is not that important to me because I have got a Pentium now wink It should just work.
But maybe I'll give Budgie a try before!

EDIT: Budgie test is already done. This combines the same errors as mentioned above with an old-fashioned look and feel. The worst of both worlds: No, thanks smile

Last edited by flittermice (2021-04-10 16:48:05)

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#11 2021-04-10 16:11:54

Morn
Member
Registered: 2012-09-02
Posts: 711

Re: Trash on separate filesystem not accessible in GNOME/Nautilus 40?

Perhaps I should move to XFCE apps such as the terminal and file manager instead of using Gnome 3 apps. With the inevitable switch to GTK 4, it looks like X11 is becoming a second-class citizen in a mainly Wayland-oriented world. Apparently Budgie v11 will also make the move to GTK 4. sad

This Qt/GTK duopoly is really starting to get on my nerves with their breaking updates. Yes, Linux applications in the 90s were a wild mix of different styles (anybody remember Open Look or xv image viewer?), but somehow we still managed. Today everything is more consistent visually, but the choices are so limited and all feel bloated.

Maybe somebody should write a DE in Dear Imgui or something like that, just to show that other interfaces except Qt and GTK are still possible. smile

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#12 2021-04-10 18:14:32

flittermice
Member
From: Vienna
Registered: 2013-09-07
Posts: 13

Re: Trash on separate filesystem not accessible in GNOME/Nautilus 40?

It appears to me that this is not only a GNOME problem.
I just observed the same issue with XFCE/Thunar as well as with LXDE/PCManFM.

The differences are lying in the content of the error messages:
- The one says that /mnt/home-hdd/.Trash/1001/ is not there (though it is and the permissions are ok).
- The other one says that the underlying file system wouldn't support Trash operations (though it did until short time ago).

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#13 2021-04-11 12:17:51

Smoerrebroed
Member
From: Germany
Registered: 2011-07-24
Posts: 93

Re: Trash on separate filesystem not accessible in GNOME/Nautilus 40?

Interesting. So perhaps this is not related to GNOME/Nautilus but just started happening coincidentally with the upgrade? After all, the specification is not GNOME-exclusive, Nonetheless, I haven't been able to make it work so far.

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#14 2021-04-11 14:02:07

progandy
Member
Registered: 2012-05-17
Posts: 4,236

Re: Trash on separate filesystem not accessible in GNOME/Nautilus 40?

That is a bug in glib. Feel free to send the bug report.

If you read the new codepath in https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/glib/-/b … le.c#L2039 , then success will never be set to true if a global trash directory is found...

In the old code, the variable did not exist: https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/glib/-/b … le.c#L2018
Someone thought to improve the error messages and did not test properly. The test suite did not catch it either, no idea if it was not run or has no test for it. https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/glib/-/m … uests/1825

By the way, trash is not allowed by glib on permissionless filesystems like exfat when they are mounted as writable for all useres...

Edit: Changed to gitlab links.

Last edited by progandy (2021-04-11 14:44:22)


| alias CUTF='LANG=en_XX.UTF-8@POSIX ' |

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#15 2021-04-12 17:21:43

flittermice
Member
From: Vienna
Registered: 2013-09-07
Posts: 13

Re: Trash on separate filesystem not accessible in GNOME/Nautilus 40?

Wow, progandy, this is one qualified answer. Thanks very much!
I'm slightly overextended by filing a bug for things like that, but I'll give it a try.
If it's a known bug: Why did no one report it yet or did you just find it?

Cheers, Flittermice

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#16 2021-04-12 18:49:45

progandy
Member
Registered: 2012-05-17
Posts: 4,236

Re: Trash on separate filesystem not accessible in GNOME/Nautilus 40?

flittermice wrote:

I'm slightly overextended by filing a bug for things like that, but I'll give it a try.
If it's a known bug: Why did no one report it yet or did you just find it?

It appears not many try to set up global trash directories and the automatic per-user trash should work just fine. (/mnt/point/.Trash-$UID)
The bug was found by me after I saw your reports. (I do not know if someone else did, there is no bug report yet). I basically looked at what changed in the trash handling between the package versions. (Since it was in pcmanfm, thunar and nautilus it had to be in a common library, i.e. glib2)

Last edited by progandy (2021-04-12 18:51:34)


| alias CUTF='LANG=en_XX.UTF-8@POSIX ' |

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#17 2021-04-12 22:25:34

flittermice
Member
From: Vienna
Registered: 2013-09-07
Posts: 13

Re: Trash on separate filesystem not accessible in GNOME/Nautilus 40?

Thanks for your tip, progandy: /mnt/point/.Trash-$UID does indeed work since I created it manually and rebooted.
Nevertheless I filed a bug under GitLab.

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