What to learn...?

Cronanius · 2006-12-04 04:26:03

I'm currently running Ubuntu with the eventual intention of switching to Arch in the (probably near) future... but I'm not entirely sure what I should learn in order to become most effective with using Arch. I know it's an odd, fairly open-ended question, but, nonetheless, I was hoping some more experienced Arch[linux] users would have some insights on specific things that would be very useful for me to learn in Ubuntu before switching to Arch. ie. specific terminal commands, installation functions, installing on different types of hard drives, working with multiple kernels (I definately blinked in surprise a few times when I read that some people had multiple kernels on their systems :shock:), The kind of things where you said, wow, I wish I had known this a long time ago! Whatever suits your fancy. I'm at the point now where I can do pretty much any really basic thing that I need to do, ie. use the terminal to move around, copy, delete stuff, etc., using wine to run windows crap, etc.. But what should I get down to learn that would make my eventual transition to Arch go a lot more smoothly? I'm just not sure what i should learn. Just throw stuff at me.
Thx in advance guys!

Dusty · 2006-12-04 04:49:46

I think the first thing you want to learn is how to install Arch. :-) From there you'll quickly see what things you need to know. Ubuntu and Arch are quite different when it comes to administration (I've been running ubuntu in the lab for a few months and I'm still uncomfortable with it).

You can install more than one distribution at a time, so you can keep Ubuntu and install Arch for playing with while you learn, if you like. You can even run Arch inside of Ubuntu if you want to learn about emulators like qemu and vmware.

Dusty

timtux · 2006-12-04 05:12:21

Learn to use the command line to move files, copy files, browse dirs, learn to use a command line text editor (such as nano) before you try to install archlinux Irssi is also good to learn, as you maybe wont get X working and you still can get help on IRC

pauldonnelly · 2006-12-04 06:07:59

timtux wrote:

Learn to use the command line to move files, copy files, browse dirs, learn to use a command line text editor (such as nano) before you try to install archlinux

+1
You can set things up so that you won't have to see a command line (although that sounds like a huge mistake to me), but you'll need to spend some time at one to get there. I'd recommend learning Vim over nano though -- it will pay off when you want to do some fast editing.

timtux · 2006-12-04 06:23:14

the question is just whats takes most time, to learn vim or just edit in nano?

Zoranthus · 2006-12-04 06:39:36

What you definiteley should have read before installing (or at least should have available in printed form) is this guide:
http://www.archlinux.org/static/docs/ar … guide.html

It tells you all you need to know to get it installed properly, where to configure stuff and how to continue afterwards to get to the point where you can get more info from the internet in a comfortable webbrowser again.

The only problem I had during install that I had to solve myself was that GRUB was using a false default image file name in the Linux menu entry: initkernel.img or something instead of kernel26.img. Don't know if it's still like that but make sure to look for the correct filenames in your boot directory and put them into your menu.lst.

RobF · 2006-12-04 07:11:41

IMO, you'd be wasting your time trying to learn Linux by running Ubuntu or any of the other slick GUI-oriented Linux distros that try everything to hide Linux from you. I wasted three years running these easy to use Linux distros and didn't learn much Linux from running them. In six months of running Slackware and Arch I've learned a lot more real and useful Linux skills than in all that time of running hands-off Linux distros.

I think you'd be much better off simply to take the plunge and install Arch and run it exclusively. You'll be amazed how quickly you'll pick up Linux and become competent in using it.

First prepare your hard drive partition(s) with the GParted live CD, then do the base install of Arch from the Gimmick CD (with the Installation Guide in hand), then do a system upgrade (pacman -Syu), then install the Xorg X server and KDE (pacman -Sy xorg kde), and in no time you'll have a nice usable Desktop. From the Wiki and with additional guidance from the forum, you'll then gradually pick up everything else you need. In a year's time, you'll be light years ahead of the average Ubuntu user.

It also helps to keep a few good Linux books handy. I particularly recommend Brian Ward's "How Linux Works" and Steve Shah & Wale Soyinka's "Linux Administration - A Beginner's Guide". Also, the online SlackBook ( http://www.slackbook.org/ ) is very good.

Zoranthus was referring to the fact that you should make sure that in GRUB's menu.lst you enter the correct kernel image (e.g. kernel26-fallback.img rather than initrd26-full.img). If you don't you get a kernel panic.

Robert

Mikko777 · 2006-12-04 09:53:01

Only hard parts for me were:

-Xorg.config file -> i copied this from ubuntu, since none of the arch autodetects worked for me

-ACX wireless modem -> had this working in ubuntu with some tweaking, haven't got it working in arch yet (haven't really tried either ^^)

BTW don't install KDE, use openbox and Gnome instead
Openbox is a nice linux gui learning program by itself

PS:

Read this and then install Arch and you'r not a linux newbie anymore:
http://linux-newbie.sunsite.dk/

clarence · 2006-12-04 11:28:22

Dusty wrote:

... You can even run Arch inside of Ubuntu if you want to learn about emulators like qemu and vmware.
Dusty

Great idea Dusty. Installing Arch is nothing like installing Dapper or Edgy.

I would also suggest making sure you have some printed material on partitioning and configuring grub handy (if your not already familiar).

As a sidenote: I've just come back to Arch after trying Edgy for a month. It's good to be back home

Snarkout · 2006-12-04 14:19:08

timtux wrote:

the question is just whats takes most time, to learn vim or just edit in nano?

Learning vi(m) is always a good choice. Vi is on every single system I have ever touched, including some very old bsds and pre-solaris sunos. Nano, joe, ee, kwrite, gedit, etc are not. Many builtins assume you can use vi - visudo, vipw, etc - yes, you can change the editor for these, but this is not the Right Way. That being said, I think that nano is a good first step.

Sekre · 2006-12-04 14:35:25

what they said above,
and to further this more, learning vi(m) makes a huge difference it really does. Before I used nano for everything now I only use vim. Although vi(m) could probably wait, make sure you have good documentation available especially on partitioning, grub and fstab. Having this saved me a lot of times when I was 'newb' (still is btw).

But I thought that it was fairly easy to make the move to arch as long as you keep your head with you and don't get scared because it has a text-based install. And pacman works similar to apt-get, apt-get install = pacman -S
so it is easy to go from ubuntu's to arch's package system I think. 8)
Dapper/Edgy has graphical if I'm not mistaken.

RobF · 2006-12-04 18:31:13

Mikko777 wrote:

Only hard parts for me were:
-Xorg.config file -> i copied this from ubuntu, since none of the arch autodetects worked for me

I'll second this: you may have to do a bit of fiddling with /etc/X11/xorg.conf to set up the X server correctly. On my laptop running hwd -x and minimally editing the xorg.conf generated that way worked best. On my desktop machine the only xorg.conf that I finally got to work was the one generated with Xorg -configure, using the correct DisplaySize setting (this generates /root/xorg.conf.new, copy that to /etc/X11/xorg.conf).

Possible ways of generating an xorg.conf are: hwd -x (install hwd first), xorgconfig, Xorg -configure, X -configure, or copying and editing an xorg.conf from a Linux install in which the X server is correctly configured for your hardware.

Robert

Shagbag · 2006-12-04 19:00:19

Just take the plunge and immerse yourself in Arch. I ran Ubuntu Dapper and Edgy for about 6 months as I was always afraid of the need to 'configure' Arch from the outset and my self-perceived lack of linux skills. What a joke! I just followed the Installation Manual and after a couple of failed font selections, it was up and running at the command line. A quick pacman -Syu and a quick pacman -S xorg xterm, and I could startx. Then, a simple pacman -S kde (I chose the full monty) and I could startx and startkde. From then on, it's a piece of piss. Apt-get is good. Pacman is as good if not better.

I learned a lot from Ubuntu but it took Arch to show me how a customized, lean, binary disto should really behave.

It's like Dan, Pat, Allen and Linc said: Arch rocks!

Cronanius · 2006-12-04 21:57:49

Thanks a lot guys! I'll save that and keep it handy.
cheers!

sarah31 · 2006-12-04 22:21:51

You will need to know the internal components of your computer. You may want to copy various config files since this will help you alot. Knowing the guts of your computer is one of the biggest things to learning any OS including Linux. It will save you scads of cash should you ever have a problem.

Read up on the installation and like Dusty said you may even want to run Arch within Ubuntu or even dual boot with Ubuntu. Wanting to get more intimate with Linux is great but you also have to think about time you have (since the dirtier you want to get your hands the more time you will be spending working on your sytem ), work you will need to get done and other such things. If you just want a working system and have other thing to do with your time then maybe moving to another Linux distro is not something you want to do.

I stopped using Linux some time ago because I got tired of spending so much time trying to make system more efficient and to do some of the the things I was into at the time. Basically I felt that my efficiency and effectiveness was being hurt.

If you do decide to make the change be sure that you try and remain patient and ask here if you run into problems. Panicking doesn't help you or anyone trying to help you. be sure to do a search before you ask questions too since it can get tedious if people have to answer questions that have been asked many times before.

Good luck with what ever you decide.

stmok · 2006-12-05 12:23:46

You must learn and approach things in a logical manner.

(1) Get a note book (or binder with paper) and pen.

Take down everything as you go. This is your collection of notes specific to Arch Linux. Its convenient having your own set of notes instead of referring to the wiki or forums over and over again.

My set includes how to set up and test that MCE Remote and Happauge PVR-150 capture card. It also doubles as an installation walkthrough. (so I don't miss anything important).

Also note down your monitor refresh rates, etc. Things that are specific to your hardware.

(2) Get familiar with your hardware.

Example: Say I have a Sigma Designs Hollywood Plus DVD decoder card. (does MPEG2 acceleration and TV-Out...Good for MythTV, VDR, etc). I note which version of the card I have and which TV-Out chip it uses. (The original one used BrookTree chips, while the later ones used AD717x chips).

It really pays to know the details of your hardware.

(3) Get used to the command line and where stuff are.

How do I edit X11 settings? => /etc/X11/xorg.conf
How do I edit pacman's settings? => /etc/pacman.conf
Where are the Log files located? etc, etc

Get used to using a text editor. Nano, Vim, or whatever.
(I don't really care as I use nano and vi interchangably).

Familiarise with the general layout of Arch's file structure.
(Just know where stuff usually goes and where to find them).

(4) Know the places to go when you need help.

Installation Guide? Wiki? Forums? etc.

Before posting a question, search first...Some folks may get a little fustrated when people ask the same questions over and over again.

(5) Learn patience.

With the era of Windows and "easy to use" Linux, it molds user behaviour. (Become impatient and demanding of something to work...Otherwise they get angry and whingey...As they have not learnt a single thing, but to become dependent on someone!).

When you use a distro like Debian, Arch, Gentoo, etc...The responsibility of solving an issue is placed upon the user. You may feel overwhelmed at first, but you learn to become patient as you solve your problems.

In fact, don't think of your problems as problems, but mere obstacles that can be overcome by leaving emotion out of it and thinking logically. The end result is that you become independent. (No longer relying on Microsoft or the Ubuntu team to resolve your specifc issues).

(6) Google is your friend.

If a specific topic isn't found here or in other Arch material, and you know its a non-distro specific thing, then look in Google. Be sure to get well-acquainted with Google. Be specific in your search. This is where I search for the refresh rates for my monitors or TVs, so I know what to manually change/add in xorg.conf

(7) When asking for help, be as detailed as possible.

People usually suggest you use commands like "dmesg" or post logs if you don't provide it. So its just better to post the RELEVANT info. (It dries people's eyes out if you post the entire thing!)

Either way, asking for help is a two-way street. If you don't provide enough info, people can't help you solve your issue...But don't provide a graphic novel or a life story of the problem! Be specifc, short, and direct.

(8) Its Linux, don't expect perfection...Or hand holding!

Communities based on distros like Arch, Debian, Slackware, Gentoo, etc expect you to read and find the info yourself. If you have trouble, at least show that you have made an attempt and have some idea of what you're doing or trying to achieve. (This is really the "old school" way, but its a good way to earn some respect)

If you can do all the above, things shouldn't be too much trouble.
(The approach should apply to distros of a similar nature to Arch Linux).

chrismortimore · 2006-12-05 12:48:02

Learn how to write makefiles. Something I really should do one day... But I cheat and use kdevelop just now.

Arch Linux

#1 2006-12-04 04:26:03

What to learn...?

#2 2006-12-04 04:49:46

Re: What to learn...?

#3 2006-12-04 05:12:21

Re: What to learn...?

#4 2006-12-04 06:07:59

Re: What to learn...?

#5 2006-12-04 06:23:14

Re: What to learn...?

#6 2006-12-04 06:39:36

Re: What to learn...?

#7 2006-12-04 07:11:41

Re: What to learn...?

#8 2006-12-04 09:53:01

Re: What to learn...?

#9 2006-12-04 11:28:22

Re: What to learn...?

#10 2006-12-04 14:19:08

Re: What to learn...?

#11 2006-12-04 14:35:25

Re: What to learn...?

#12 2006-12-04 18:31:13

Re: What to learn...?

#13 2006-12-04 19:00:19

Re: What to learn...?

#14 2006-12-04 21:57:49

Re: What to learn...?

#15 2006-12-04 22:21:51

Re: What to learn...?

#16 2006-12-05 12:23:46

Re: What to learn...?

#17 2006-12-05 12:48:02

Re: What to learn...?

Board footer