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#1 2022-06-09 15:14:06

guglovich
Member
Registered: 2021-07-01
Posts: 6

[Feedback] archinstall

Specifics about the archinstall set.

Not working out - minimalism, not working out - dextop out of the box.

On the subject of minimalism:
the installer pulls all but the most important Xfce4 plugins, it even pulls the Dictionary, it even pulls the video player and photo viewer. And bingo here is Xfburn, given that not everyone has a CD/DVD drive.

Why didn't the desktop come out is the most important thing, since I've already killed three hours without getting a working machine.
(and the old kind of install would have cost less than an hour, but there's a problem with my SSD)

1. the installer doesn't install thunar-media-tags-plugin, which I consider one of the basic plugins
2. if the profile is called desktop, and costs so much extra secondary junk, it was strange not to see a GUI to enable and configure the internet.

A bit of emotion (for Maintainers to read):
With the old installation I would have just installed NetworkManager + Applet, but alas, I chose the supposedly faster and more convenient way. Went running between rooms and computers to bring up network device and DHCP via systemD, ping worked, seemed to check it out, but no.
With ping working and seemingly network I can't install or update my databases (pacman core.db failed to download etc.). Tried to put in non-native to me GRUB config (again I have to run to another computer as I was on system-boot) ipv6.disable=1 (sudo update-grub gives me that command is unknown, try sudo grub-mkconfig -o /boot/grub/grub.cfg), I reboot and again nothing works.

Result: a few hours killed because the most basic thing, NetworkManager is not in the installation with the loud name desktop. After all, it's one thing to fix problems when you have the Internet on your computer and see the commands right there. And it's another thing to run between rooms like a lunatic, because it's not normal to spend so much time trying to fix it.

That's the end of my inspection. I don't want the attempt timer to get to twenty-four hours.

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#2 2022-06-09 15:37:02

Trilby
Inspector Parrot
Registered: 2011-11-29
Posts: 26,865
Website

Re: [Feedback] archinstall

So your first post here was to post something "for Maintainers to read" when the forums are the wrong venue for that, and when the feedback is just their choices didn't suit your personal preferences and includes such detailed bugs as "again nothing works".  No one asked for your "inspection".  This belongs in your personal blog, if anywhere.

Last edited by Trilby (2022-06-09 15:39:55)


"UNIX is simple and coherent..." - Dennis Ritchie, "GNU's Not UNIX" -  Richard Stallman

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#3 2022-06-09 15:38:48

Slithery
Administrator
From: Norfolk, UK
Registered: 2013-12-01
Posts: 5,334

Re: [Feedback] archinstall

Moving to 'Arch Linux Guided lnstaller' subforum.

Please post any feature requests on the projects development website as it's more likely to get a proper response.
https://github.com/archlinux/archinstall


No, it didn't "fix" anything. It just shifted the brokeness one space to the right. - jasonwryan
Closing -- for deletion; Banning -- for muppetry. - jasonwryan

aur - dotfiles

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#4 2022-06-09 17:10:19

guglovich
Member
Registered: 2021-07-01
Posts: 6

Re: [Feedback] archinstall

Trilby wrote:

So your first post here was to post something "for Maintainers to read" when the forums are the wrong venue for that, and when the feedback is just their choices didn't suit your personal preferences and includes such detailed bugs as "again nothing works".  No one asked for your "inspection".  This belongs in your personal blog, if anywhere.

Just as I didn't ask for your opinion, you can write an opinion about me in your personal diary. I write feedback with justified specificity, in developed circles this is customary. archinstall was created to make it easier and friendlier for new users.

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#5 2022-06-09 18:00:04

Alad
Wiki Admin/IRC Op
From: Bagelstan
Registered: 2014-05-04
Posts: 2,319
Website

Re: [Feedback] archinstall

Just as I didn't ask for your opinion

If you write "A bit of emotion" you can expect a bit of emotion in return...

the installer doesn't install thunar-media-tags-plugin, which I consider one of the basic plugins

That's really the issue with archinstall profiles - they are purely personal preference.

archinstall was created to make it easier and friendlier for new users.

archinstall is two things: 1. a library to automate your own installer 2. a 'guided' installer.

Even if the guided installer is supposed to make the installation "friendlier", the challenging part in Arch lies elsewhere - maintaining it and keeping it in a functional state. Following the normal installation procedure gives you some basic skills to help with this.

Side-note: if you want an "out of the box" and "minimal" experience you can still use one of the more user friendly distributions, e.g. Debian has a minimal ISO. There's no point in fighting Arch from the get-go if that's all you're looking for.

Last edited by Alad (2022-06-09 18:01:01)


Mods are just community members who have the occasionally necessary option to move threads around and edit posts. -- Trilby

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#6 2022-06-09 20:40:07

guglovich
Member
Registered: 2021-07-01
Posts: 6

Re: [Feedback] archinstall

Alad wrote:

archinstall is two things: 1. a library to automate your own installer 2. a 'guided' installer.

Even if the guided installer is supposed to make the installation "friendlier", the challenging part in Arch lies elsewhere - maintaining it and keeping it in a functional state. Following the normal installation procedure gives you some basic skills to help with this.

Side-note: if you want an "out of the box" and "minimal" experience you can still use one of the more user friendly distributions, e.g. Debian has a minimal ISO. There's no point in fighting Arch from the get-go if that's all you're looking for.

I finally upgraded to Arch in 2016, and reinstalled 2-3 times after that due to F2FS features. I opened the Arch wiki, did everything properly and installed NetworkManager once and for all. Then I wrote down what I didn't understand in my manual, saved it for myself and for the convenience of others, put it online. All problems can be solved, if you have the Internet and you sit at your work machine and use it to look for solutions on the Internet. But being left alone with a problem, without the internet, is a completely different experience.

As it happens, I've used manual setup for myself and even for my friends several times, and it turns out that because of such important basics, I have to keep doing it because, as I said above, I can't learn to solve a problem that doesn't give me the tools to solve it. Cyclical dependency.

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#7 2022-06-09 21:05:28

Alad
Wiki Admin/IRC Op
From: Bagelstan
Registered: 2014-05-04
Posts: 2,319
Website

Re: [Feedback] archinstall

It's useful to learn about man pages. They don't need internet access are often both better explained and detailed than whatever you find online. The installation guide mentions them where possible as well.


Mods are just community members who have the occasionally necessary option to move threads around and edit posts. -- Trilby

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#8 2022-06-09 21:09:03

Slithery
Administrator
From: Norfolk, UK
Registered: 2013-12-01
Posts: 5,334

Re: [Feedback] archinstall

guglovich wrote:

I can't learn to solve a problem that doesn't give me the tools to solve it. Cyclical dependency.

You can access the wiki directly from the Arch install ISO....

lynx wiki.archlinux.org

No, it didn't "fix" anything. It just shifted the brokeness one space to the right. - jasonwryan
Closing -- for deletion; Banning -- for muppetry. - jasonwryan

aur - dotfiles

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#9 2022-06-10 21:55:39

guglovich
Member
Registered: 2021-07-01
Posts: 6

Re: [Feedback] archinstall

Thanks for the information. But then again, I got it from you, via the internet, which I didn't have working at the time )

The person on GitHub seems to have agreed to add nm-applet to the NetworkManager installation profile.

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