idea: News in Pacman

Dusty · 2007-01-02 19:12:41

Thought I'd toss this out because I can't decide if its in violation of KISS or not, and maybe now would be a good time to bend the ears of the pacman 3 devs... We love you phrakture! ;-)

Every once in a while, something happens in Arch packages that users need to know about when they -Syu. This is sometimes posted as part of the postinstall script for the package in question, or its posted to the front page news at archlinux.org. Some people don't read archlinux.org, and sometimes the postinstall notes are scrolled off the screen when an update occurs.

I was just thinking it may be smart to have a 'news' feature built into pacman so that certain tidbits of information can be displayed immediately after an upgrade has occurred (things like: you need to change lilo.conf or menu.lst before you reboot). The news could be designed such that users don't see it twice, as happens with the postinstall method is used, and package-related information could be condensed so that its not missed if one doesn't read the arch news at the right time.

This would be quite KISSish from the user point of view, but maybe it makes things complicated from the developer point of view. Its not automating anything, just consolidating disparate streams of information.

Thoughts?

Dusty

Mr Green · 2007-01-02 19:18:09

+1

Kermit · 2007-01-02 19:48:53

+1

Kermit.

phrakture · 2007-01-02 19:58:39

Hmmm, 2 points. The second one "fixes" the first, so read fully.

1) I think integrating a news downloader would, in fact, violate KISS in some way, as it would get very specific.

2) When I finally get around to adding a global "on install" system, which I plan on doing, this will be cake. The idea came from the fact that I want some sort of trigger when "/usr/include" is touched by pacman, to re-run ctags for my global tag file. So, in theory, we have a file pattern and a command to run. It would be very easy to have "match *" run something like "check-front-page-news.py"

Opinions?

bones · 2007-01-02 19:58:51

I like that idea :idea:

RedShift · 2007-01-02 20:01:02

-1
People should just read the front page news.

Dusty · 2007-01-02 20:51:07

phrakture wrote:

2) When I finally get around to adding a global "on install" system, which I plan on doing, this will be cake. The idea came from the fact that I want some sort of trigger when "/usr/include" is touched by pacman, to re-run ctags for my global tag file. So, in theory, we have a file pattern and a command to run. It would be very easy to have "match *" run something like "check-front-page-news.py"

This is an even more generic solution, which is always a good thing when it comes to KISS. I actually suggested something like this a long while back when there was a huge debate about whether or not lilo should be automatically run when kernel26 (for example) was installed.

Dusty

tlaloc · 2007-01-02 20:52:49

No.
Pacman output is already fine. I DO get essential warnings like "If you run lilo, execute 'lilo' before reboot" or "blurp extracted as blurp.pacnew".
Everything else than that would just bloat pacman - it is for package management, not a newsreader. I even like it without colours .

cactus · 2007-01-02 21:40:17

phrakture wrote:

Opinions?

News and general notifications are quite outside the purview of package management. I say no.

Moo-Crumpus · 2007-01-02 22:10:05

I could use debian if I liked it that way. I say nope for pacman as news transporter. Pacman should handle packages, the user should know what he does.

At least, if a package update could result in unbootable systems, it would be nice to have a hint and a stop, the way like "Take care and read http:xxxxx before updating this code. Like to proceed? y/N".

phrakture · 2007-01-02 22:28:02

cactus wrote:

phrakture wrote:
Opinions?
News and general notifications are quite outside the purview of package management. I say no.

Right, but the system proposed has nothing to do with news really. It's just that it enables the "pull down" of news, were the system in place.

kensai · 2007-01-02 22:38:36

I'm so so about the idea, well is helpful but not KISS. Anyways, maybe we are not getting pacman 3 before duke nukem forever comes out. So don't hold your breath.

iphitus · 2007-01-02 23:02:30

phrakture wrote:

2) When I finally get around to adding a global "on install" system, which I plan on doing, this will be cake. The idea came from the fact that I want some sort of trigger when "/usr/include" is touched by pacman, to re-run ctags for my global tag file. So, in theory, we have a file pattern and a command to run. It would be very easy to have "match *" run something like "check-front-page-news.py"

A generic trigger based system would be good. I'd find it quite useful, if not for the news, but for just keeping track of some things. Would it be all that difficult to implement? If not, then it seems pretty KISS and lets users leverage it to get news if they wish.

The other option is logging post install in it's entirety or setup post.install scripts to log (echo >>) their notes and important things to /var/log/pacman.postinstall which users could review in their own time.

James

T-Dawg · 2007-01-02 23:52:56

I think it would be tremendously helpful if postinstall messages were displayed all at once before pacman exits so they are not missed or confused between the regular pacman install messages.
something like:

[...]
installing mkinitcpio... done.
kernel26:
kernel26 post install message
mkinitcpio:
mkinitcpio post install message

Romashka · 2007-01-03 00:03:05

/me votes for phrakture's point #2.
It is KISS - it doesn't integrate "newsreader" into Pacman, but allows users to do this by themselves.
However, there should be option to trigger something (i.e. "newsreader") before actual update - just between database sync and package download stages.

bneate · 2007-01-03 04:07:40

T-Dawg wrote:

I think it would be tremendously helpful if postinstall messages were displayed all at once before pacman exits so they are not missed or confused between the regular pacman install messages.
something like:
[...]
installing mkinitcpio... done.
kernel26:
kernel26 post install message
mkinitcpio:
mkinitcpio post install message

I agree with this it would be extremely helpful if all the post install messages were displayed at the same time after all of the packages have been updated. It's to easy to miss a post install message if you have a bunch of packages being installed/upgraded and the first one has a important message that just gets scrolled away.

phrakture · 2007-01-03 05:25:20

This is a good idea - can someone add this to the bug tracker as a feature request so I can get to it later on?

codemac · 2007-01-03 06:27:15

I like the idea, but I really don't see it in the scope of pacman. Why can't someone just run

news-checker.py && pacman -Syu

A hooks system seems to be a bit out there. Then again I can't see all the uses for this right now.

Acid7711 · 2007-01-03 06:37:22

T-Dawg wrote:

I think it would be tremendously helpful if postinstall messages were displayed all at once before pacman exits so they are not missed or confused between the regular pacman install messages.
something like:
[...]
installing mkinitcpio... done.
kernel26:
kernel26 post install message
mkinitcpio:
mkinitcpio post install message

This is how I envisioned the proposed addon. I for one would like to see this implamented. I hate missing what is going by, granted half of the time it doesn't pertain to me, but the main point is it's there for a reason, and if it scrolls by too fast to read, then it's useless to begin with. You'll never know when someones installing a single package or an entire group that will run postinstall text off the page.

phrakture · 2007-01-03 07:50:59

codemac wrote:

Then again I can't see all the uses for this right now.

Removal of all the .install files for gnome (scrollkeeper), a single depmod call for any and all /lib/modules changed, regeneration of the locatedb, notifications if any .pacnew files were spit out, etc etc - I can think of close to 100 uses for a "when file matching pattern X is changed, perform operation Y"

Mr Green · 2007-01-03 07:54:05

Why not just give use the option ?

pacman -N would display current news relating to updates

Yes T-Dawg adding update info to end of pacman output is a cool idea

SiD · 2007-01-03 08:59:56

T-Dawg wrote:

I think it would be tremendously helpful if postinstall messages were displayed all at once before pacman exits so they are not missed or confused between the regular pacman install messages.
something like:
[...]
installing mkinitcpio... done.
kernel26:
kernel26 post install message
mkinitcpio:
mkinitcpio post install message

this is a good idea!

and I agree with Moo-Crumpus

Moo-Crumpus wrote:

... I say nope for pacman as news transporter. Pacman should handle packages, the user should know what he does.
At least, if a package update could result in unbootable systems, it would be nice to have a hint and a stop, the way like "Take care and read http:xxxxx before updating this code. Like to proceed? y/N".

Romashka · 2007-01-03 10:17:15

phrakture wrote:

This is a good idea - can someone add this to the bug tracker as a feature request so I can get to it later on?

Done.

CatalinuX · 2007-01-10 21:14:11

Hmm I myself would like to see this implemented this way: After the installation/upgrading of the components, to display a text like: "Make sure you read this.log before rebooting", where this.log is generated by pacman and contains all the important messages and actions that must be done after installing/upgrading a package.

Arch Linux

#1 2007-01-02 19:12:41

idea: News in Pacman

#2 2007-01-02 19:18:09

Re: idea: News in Pacman

#3 2007-01-02 19:48:53

Re: idea: News in Pacman

#4 2007-01-02 19:58:39

Re: idea: News in Pacman

#5 2007-01-02 19:58:51

Re: idea: News in Pacman

#6 2007-01-02 20:01:02

Re: idea: News in Pacman

#7 2007-01-02 20:51:07

Re: idea: News in Pacman

#8 2007-01-02 20:52:49

Re: idea: News in Pacman

#9 2007-01-02 21:40:17

Re: idea: News in Pacman

#10 2007-01-02 22:10:05

Re: idea: News in Pacman

#11 2007-01-02 22:28:02

Re: idea: News in Pacman

#12 2007-01-02 22:38:36

Re: idea: News in Pacman

#13 2007-01-02 23:02:30

Re: idea: News in Pacman

#14 2007-01-02 23:52:56

Re: idea: News in Pacman

#15 2007-01-03 00:03:05

Re: idea: News in Pacman

#16 2007-01-03 04:07:40

Re: idea: News in Pacman

#17 2007-01-03 05:25:20

Re: idea: News in Pacman

#18 2007-01-03 06:27:15

Re: idea: News in Pacman

#19 2007-01-03 06:37:22

Re: idea: News in Pacman

#20 2007-01-03 07:50:59

Re: idea: News in Pacman

#21 2007-01-03 07:54:05

Re: idea: News in Pacman

#22 2007-01-03 08:59:56

Re: idea: News in Pacman

#23 2007-01-03 10:17:15

Re: idea: News in Pacman

#24 2007-01-10 21:14:11

Re: idea: News in Pacman

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