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#1 2023-11-02 18:39:17

d.ALT
Member
Registered: 2019-05-10
Posts: 921

What's the correct definition of TTY environment? (NO displayserver)

Hello everyone!
Since I started experimenting Linux outside any kind of displayserver, I find hard documenting myself online because for sure I'm using wrong/bad search terms.

"How" should I address to everything which is NOT under the https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Catego … interfaces umbrella??

What should I look for? KMS? DRM? TTY? big_smile


<49,17,III,I>    Fama di loro il mondo esser non lassa;
<50,17,III,I>    misericordia e giustizia li sdegna:
<51,17,III,I>    non ragioniam di lor, ma guarda e passa.

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#2 2023-11-02 19:05:48

Trilby
Inspector Parrot
Registered: 2011-11-29
Posts: 29,652
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Re: What's the correct definition of TTY environment? (NO displayserver)

Look for for what?  What do you want to be able to do?


"UNIX is simple and coherent..." - Dennis Ritchie, "GNU's Not UNIX" -  Richard Stallman

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#3 2023-11-02 20:08:15

seth
Member
Registered: 2012-09-03
Posts: 52,545

Re: What's the correct definition of TTY environment? (NO displayserver)

A "TeleTYpewriter", probably not what you mean.

If you don't know what to focus on when addressing Trilby's question: does it matter that it's the linux console and not eg. xterm?
Can you work when passing "nomodeset" to the kernel?

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#4 2023-11-02 21:34:31

d.ALT
Member
Registered: 2019-05-10
Posts: 921

Re: What's the correct definition of TTY environment? (NO displayserver)

Trilby, seth, hey!
Hello guys.
Yup, you're both right: I gave zero context, sorry tongue

First of all: I have an Intel iGPU (HD630).

Anyway... I managed to compile a software which runs in a "pure" TTY environment (sorry, if I'm using wrong terminologies).
Said software is flycast.
I struggled a lot in understanding and finally finding out that I had to set the KMS cmake's configure option to ON in order to get it working inside TTY.

Then, I discovered that it cannot properly run using my user, since at start everything was getting stuck once opened flycast.
I could only turn-off the computer by physically pressing the Power Button (executing proper shutdown procedure).

Then, I remembered back in the "old" days that a user had to be inside audio, video and input groups in order to have control of peripherals (also inside X!). So, adding myself to that groups made flycast to properly run with mouse and keyboard support also!!! big_smile


But still... I'm having a lot of confusion about using Linux without X or Wayland or any Desktop Environment or Window Manager.
Should I use fbdev? DirectFB? None of both?
Why should I add my user to foo group?
I'm starting to understand how deeply Desktop Environments do the hard lifting for us inexperienced users.

Also...
Why modesetting is modesetting but also KMS?
If I search "Linux KMS", a lot of results appear to be related to developing KMS for the Kernel or about enabling KMS itself.
What's the deal with DirectRenderingManager, also?


<49,17,III,I>    Fama di loro il mondo esser non lassa;
<50,17,III,I>    misericordia e giustizia li sdegna:
<51,17,III,I>    non ragioniam di lor, ma guarda e passa.

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#5 2023-11-02 21:45:41

seth
Member
Registered: 2012-09-03
Posts: 52,545

Re: What's the correct definition of TTY environment? (NO displayserver)

modesetting is modesetting, KMS is when the kernel does it: https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Kernel_mode_setting
DRM is essentialy an API interfacing kernel and userspace: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct_Rendering_Manager

So, adding myself to that groups made flycast to properly run

https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Users_ … emd_groups
You don't seem to have an active session or flycast runs a a different user or not on the active TTY?

https://archlinux.org/packages/extra/x8 … o-flycast/ doesn't look like it would not (at least "also") run inside a display server?

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#6 2023-11-02 22:11:44

d.ALT
Member
Registered: 2019-05-10
Posts: 921

Re: What's the correct definition of TTY environment? (NO displayserver)

seth wrote:

So, adding myself to that groups made flycast to properly run

https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Users_ … emd_groups
You don't seem to have an active session or flycast runs a a different user or not on the active TTY?

How can I perform all of these checks? (I'd need to further debug it in the next days...)


seth wrote:

https://archlinux.org/packages/extra/x8 … o-flycast/ doesn't look like it would not (at least "also") run inside a display server?

I didn't installed the libretro core, I compiled the standalone version.
Sorry, grammar+language barriers: I think I'm not understanding <doesn't look like it would not (at least "also") run inside a display server?>.
I'll try answering anyway (guessing I understood right): no, I have not installed any display server of any kind.
I compiled flycast with these switches:

-DSDL_OPENGL=ON -DUSE_OPENGL=ON -DSDL_ALSA=ON -DSDL_ALSA_SHARED=ON -DSDL_WAYLAND=OFF -DSDL_WAYLAND_SHARED=OFF -DSDL_PULSEAUDIO=OFF -DSDL_PULSEAUDIO_SHARED=OFF -DSDL_PIPEWIRE=OFF -DSDL_PIPEWIRE_SHARED=OFF -DSDL_JACK=OFF -DSDL_JACK_SHARED=OFF -DSDL_HIDAPI_LIBUSB=ON -DSDL_LIBUDEV=ON -DSDL_X11=OFF -DSDL_KMSDRM=ON -DSDL_KMSDRM_SHARED=ON

<49,17,III,I>    Fama di loro il mondo esser non lassa;
<50,17,III,I>    misericordia e giustizia li sdegna:
<51,17,III,I>    non ragioniam di lor, ma guarda e passa.

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#7 2023-11-02 22:49:53

seth
Member
Registered: 2012-09-03
Posts: 52,545

Re: What's the correct definition of TTY environment? (NO displayserver)

How can I perform all of these checks?

loginctl session-status
getfacl /dev/snd/controlC0
ps aux | grep flycast # assuming that's the binary name

Sorry, grammar+language barriers

No, it's just because you're not using the retroarch version and explicitly compiled

-DSDL_KMSDRM=ON

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simple_Di … _back-ends
SDL KMS/DRM does what otherwise wayland or X11 would do and if you want to talk about issues w/ that, you mention that you're using SDL KMS/DRM
But SDL supports sorts of backends (X11, wayland, direct3d, quartz, …)

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