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#1 2024-07-10 07:30:27

joffoj
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Registered: 2024-07-10
Posts: 9

[SOLVED] Can't boot into any OS, even Live USB Key

Good day ! I'm using Arch on my Razer Advanced 17" 2021 for 3 years now and everything has been super stable, updating every week.
It is important to note that I'm not using the Nvidia card on my Arch system and that I dual boot Windows 10 to play video-games.

Last update was Friday and I used my computer the whole weekend. On Monday morning, Arch crashed.
After reboot, I was blocked at "loading initframe" so I tried booting to Arch Live USB Key to debug but the system won't go further the boot menu.
Out of curiosity, I tried launching Windows and same thing, the screen froze right after the system starts to load.

I thought about an hardware issue so I ran 14 passes of Memtest86+: no error.
I've also looked at BIOS and the battery is not dry and the settings seem fine.
I've also removed and inserted again RAM.

I am writing to the community now because I have exhausted all the resources I have found online...

Thanks in advance for your help ! Have a beautiful day.

Last edited by joffoj (2024-07-15 09:45:59)

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#2 2024-07-10 10:47:11

cryptearth
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Registered: 2024-02-03
Posts: 401

Re: [SOLVED] Can't boot into any OS, even Live USB Key

what kind of "crash" happened?
sudden power failure?
extreme negative acceleration force (e.g. thrown against a wall)?
unscheduled rapud disassembly (explosion)?
sorry to mock you - but "my os crashed" and "no I can't boot anything anymore" doesn't go along well

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#3 2024-07-10 10:51:11

joffoj
Member
Registered: 2024-07-10
Posts: 9

Re: [SOLVED] Can't boot into any OS, even Live USB Key

Hey Cryptearth ! Thanks for your answer.
Sorry for not being precise. Love the extreme negative acceleration idea though. I'm getting there soon !

What happened is that the system completely froze, frozen screen, system not responding at anything (reboot shortcut for example).
I had to force shutdown the computer maintaining the power button.

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#4 2024-07-10 11:23:27

cryptearth
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Registered: 2024-02-03
Posts: 401

Re: [SOLVED] Can't boot into any OS, even Live USB Key

so the system hung up / locked up
hm, this can have multiple reason and a hard shutdown can cause some issues
can you access the bios battery insight?
it's possible somehow the firmware stuck in an unspecified state
clearing cmos by detaching the bios battery can help to reset it
although I hope that's not the case the freeze and current issue can be caused be some hardware malunction - unfortunate I'm not Luis Rossman and hence don't know how to diagnose and fix such issues

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#5 2024-07-10 11:45:18

MAYBL8
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Registered: 2022-01-14
Posts: 236

Re: [SOLVED] Can't boot into any OS, even Live USB Key

Thinking out loud here.
Seems like a system drive issue . Maybe the connection got loose.
Weird that the USB drive doesn't boot. Can you try the USB drive in another computer just to make sure it is ok?

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#6 2024-07-10 14:37:37

joffoj
Member
Registered: 2024-07-10
Posts: 9

Re: [SOLVED] Can't boot into any OS, even Live USB Key

Thank you guys for your messages !

cryptearth wrote:

can you access the bios battery insight?

I am not able to gather any log because no OS can boot but the date and time were correct in BIOS.
I have cleared the CMOS by detaching the BIOS battery and it worked because date/time has reset, but my issue persists.

MAYBL8 wrote:

Can you try the USB drive in another computer just to make sure it is ok?

I confirm the Arch USB Key works on an other computer. Regarding the system NVMe Drive, it is detected and detailed by the BIOS.

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#7 2024-07-10 15:48:35

MAYBL8
Member
Registered: 2022-01-14
Posts: 236

Re: [SOLVED] Can't boot into any OS, even Live USB Key

Is the BIOS set to boot from USB. Are you UEFI or MBR?
Sometime there is a UEFI boot menu that you can use to boot with when it won't boot normally.

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#8 2024-07-10 15:53:37

joffoj
Member
Registered: 2024-07-10
Posts: 9

Re: [SOLVED] Can't boot into any OS, even Live USB Key

I use the F12 key to be able to boot into the USB Key, otherwise Grub is handling the dual boot between Arch and Windows. It is all UEFI.

And I've tried all the other boot possibilities, such as recovery for Windows, nomodeset for Linux: as soon as the OS starts loading, after 1-2 sec, the screen freezes and computer does not respond anymore...

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#9 2024-07-10 16:48:59

cryptearth
Member
Registered: 2024-02-03
Posts: 401

Re: [SOLVED] Can't boot into any OS, even Live USB Key

well, that sounds quite severe
usually at least simple install media should be able to boot - it sounds rather suspicious that nothing boots after loading a kernel and its ramdisk

from as far as I know about booting at a low level scale a bootloader (which itself got loaded and run from the systems firmware) locates a kernel and often some ramdisk, loads them into low conventional ram and starts executing the kernel by jumping into its entry point
the kernel itself gets same base information about its environment and starts executing the first stage boot by some simple bootstrap processes controlled by configs from the boot ramdisk - which in the end is used to load and start the actual OS

by your description and my understanding of early boot stages this might could hint to some issue either with the system - but a cmos reset was unsucessful - or some actual hardware failure somewhere in the chain of storage, cpu and ram

unfortunately my skill ends at that point as for all I'm experienced with I need at least some low level system sucessful booting - if you stuck before getting to a prompt that's a notch to heavy for me - sorry

what you can try:
as every x86 system is backwards compatible with the very early implementations when switching from uefi to legacy even a modern system should be able to execute old 16-bit and 32-bit code
so, a maybe stupid idea would be to get hold of some oldschool 16-bit dos boot media and try to boot it in legacy/csm mode - if this does NOT work it hints to a severe hardware issue
if some dos can boot at least the basic functions work and you could step up with 32-bit like win9x or old 32-bit linux - if this still works then there's either an issue with the uefi - or could be some problem with switching the system into full 64-bit mode
at least I would give it a try

Last edited by cryptearth (2024-07-10 16:55:40)

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#10 2024-07-10 22:18:48

MAYBL8
Member
Registered: 2022-01-14
Posts: 236

Re: [SOLVED] Can't boot into any OS, even Live USB Key

If you see Arch at the GRUB screen what happens when you press 'e' when Arch is highlighted?

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#11 2024-07-11 11:13:15

joffoj
Member
Registered: 2024-07-10
Posts: 9

Re: [SOLVED] Can't boot into any OS, even Live USB Key

Thank you again for your answers !

cryptearth wrote:

so, a maybe stupid idea would be to get hold of some oldschool 16-bit dos boot media and try to boot it in legacy/csm mode - if this does NOT work it hints to a severe hardware issue

It is a good idea ! This will give us more info on the issue. I will be testing this this evening, I keep you posted.

MAYBL8 wrote:

If you see Arch at the GRUB screen what happens when you press 'e' when Arch is highlighted?

It show me the grub boot parameters :

setparams 'Arch Linux ...

Sorry I cannot copy/paste, do you want more info from this file ? What do you have in mind ? smile

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#12 2024-07-11 12:24:32

MAYBL8
Member
Registered: 2022-01-14
Posts: 236

Re: [SOLVED] Can't boot into any OS, even Live USB Key

I'm not a good enough grub expert but I was wondering if you could navigate the the file system through grub it might tell us something about where things might be going wrong.
There is this article but I'm not sure how much it could help.
https://askubuntu.com/questions/883992/ … mmand-line

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#13 2024-07-11 17:25:09

joffoj
Member
Registered: 2024-07-10
Posts: 9

Re: [SOLVED] Can't boot into any OS, even Live USB Key

cryptearth, I have created a bootable USB key of Ultimate Boot CD which worked on my second computer but never booted on the broken Razer.
This key can launch 32bit linux via CSM and when I try to access this key after boot menu on the Razer, black screen, nothing else ! I'm afraid you're right here, hardware issue...

MAYBL8, I have been able to access my files from the GRUB Shell but I don't know how to investigate the boot failure from this shell.
Could you please guide me ?

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#14 2024-07-11 18:30:15

MAYBL8
Member
Registered: 2022-01-14
Posts: 236

Re: [SOLVED] Can't boot into any OS, even Live USB Key

I've never had to solve your particular problem before. Someone else here might be of better knowledge to help but here is an article that might work for you.
I hope it does because it is not too many steps.

https://www.howtogeek.com/887757/how-to … fix-linux/

Let me know if it works for you.

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#15 2024-07-15 09:45:02

joffoj
Member
Registered: 2024-07-10
Posts: 9

Re: [SOLVED] Can't boot into any OS, even Live USB Key

Good day MAYBL8, good day cryptearth, thank you again for your support !

After investigating the logs, I have decided to bring the computer to a shop that has confirmed that the motherboard suffers from a malfunction.
Sadly, it is the end of my computer !

I wish you a good continuation.

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#16 2024-07-15 09:57:45

cryptearth
Member
Registered: 2024-02-03
Posts: 401

Re: [SOLVED] Can't boot into any OS, even Live USB Key

Oh, wow - I not expected THAT result when I mentioned it. Sorry to about it, although thanks for reply back anyway.
So, any future plans or are you limited by money?

Coincidently I visited a friend yesterday who complained about his new gpu not working properly and performing worse than his previozs one.
End of story: He's still on AM3 and hence limited to pci-e 2.0. He upgraded from a rx590 to a rx5500xt. I was also puzzled at first but then looked it up on wikipedia: up to 5500xt uses the navi14 chip which has 8 lanes only. So as the platform doesn't provide pci-e 3.0 or 4.0 he effectively halfed the bandwidth from a full x16 to just x8.
Along with that his cpu FX-8370 and his just 16gb ddr3 ram also limit performance quite drastically while require much energy wasted in heat for not good performance (the FX were like intels pentium: old inefficient architecture wasting lot of heat for low performance).
Right now we looking for a new system for him.

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#17 2024-07-16 13:57:10

joffoj
Member
Registered: 2024-07-10
Posts: 9

Re: [SOLVED] Can't boot into any OS, even Live USB Key

Yes... You were right on spot from the start !! I'm looking for a desktop computer, moving away from laptop because they cannot be repaired...
I'll be building a gaming setup for around a thousand dollars. Investigating possibilities now. wink
Any suggestions ?

Too bad for your friend ! It is a very good learning here, I did not know about that kind of incompatibility. I'll be careful about this.

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#18 2024-07-16 14:45:45

cryptearth
Member
Registered: 2024-02-03
Posts: 401

Re: [SOLVED] Can't boot into any OS, even Live USB Key

Although this is fanboy-me speaking I may recommend AMD if you want to stay on Linux.
I'm aware that others have no issues with intel and nvidia - but from setting up nvidia drivers myself a few times it's a pain. With amd you just install mesa radv for vulkan and you're good to go - the driver comes upstream with the kernel.

Overall you should look for what you need your pc for: If you're a hardcore gamer and need every single frame extea - intel platform with a nvidia gpu is your way to go. They seem to perform just better in games.
If you're ok with leaving some performance on the table (as in 5%-25%) and want to save some money go amd platform with an amd gpu - on linux it works just right out of the box with any need for complicated driver install (if you install steam it will install tge requiered stuff along so you're ready to game).

If you have some specific requirements like proprietary software you should take that into account and maybe prioritize.

Also keep an eye if your platform (cpu and board) comes with an igpu - as these can get you quite far on simpler e-sports games without needing a dedicated gpu. If you go full throttle you maybe can save some money by using components without onboard graphic capabilities.

Also stay away from anything branded "gamer": often you can get the same for less by just not falling for the gamer trap. And look out for maybe not required stuff like wifi/bluetooth: Does your desktop really need these features - or would they jzst be nice to have but not actively used?

You can build a system for 1.000 bucks that performs worse than a system for 500 bucks - so be mindful when chosing components: try to cheap out on the wrong part often lead to buying twice.

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#19 2024-07-20 11:04:06

joffoj
Member
Registered: 2024-07-10
Posts: 9

Re: [SOLVED] Can't boot into any OS, even Live USB Key

Thanks for all these advices !! Much appreciated !

I went a little over budget for what I think is a robust system : https://pcpartpicker.com/list/gTv2Jy

What is your take on this setup ? wink

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#20 2024-07-20 12:25:09

cryptearth
Member
Registered: 2024-02-03
Posts: 401

Re: [SOLVED] Can't boot into any OS, even Live USB Key

looks like a solid build - although as for the board I can't give a valid input: I use wifi only for my phone - but if you have a requirement for wifi/bluetooth in a desktop system go for it
also I wouldn't invest in a 2tb solid state drive - but I have a 24tb pool fast enough for my needs

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