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#1 2007-04-22 20:49:20

Excessive
Member
Registered: 2006-09-27
Posts: 13

Good bye Arch people..

Unfortunately, I'm extremely bored with Linux in general, and its "unsolvable" problems. I'm not a newbie, using Linux since 1996. Arch was the best of all, but it depends on a unstable system. It doesn't matter whether you did something right or wrong, there is always a chance for something to go wrong, without a cause. This is same with almost all Linux distributions. I will switch to FreeBSD today, leaving everything else behind.

Having Arch Linux for almost a year made me feel using the best Linux distro out there. I want to thank developers and excellent community for the memories. I will miss everything, especially the Arch logo.

Keep up the good work.


void life () {
  // void
}

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#2 2007-04-22 21:19:34

scottro
Member
From: NYC
Registered: 2002-10-11
Posts: 452
Website

Re: Good bye Arch people..

I'm not arguing with your decision one way or another, but right now, a lot of things in FreeBSD are going through some drastic changes, such as the soon to be merge of xorg-7.x into the ports tree, and the changing of X11BASE to /usr/local. 

There are a few other things going on as well, though I think most of them are in CURRENT.  I suspect your problem of something going wrong will occur in any operating system.  Ironically enough, a friend of mine might switch to Arch for a bit because he feels too many things are getting broken in FreeBSD.  smile  As he put it, "It mostly works, but 'mostly' is a moving target."  Of course, that holds for any O/S, including Windows, and especially Vista.

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#3 2007-04-22 22:33:37

pelle.k
Member
From: Åre, Sweden (EU)
Registered: 2006-04-30
Posts: 667

Re: Good bye Arch people..

Good luck! smile
I understand your reasons. Sometime i feel like i run some kind of lab inside my computer. The next best thing would be to just completely give up, and buy a mac. But then again, i wan't to play games. So you could say i want a macosx/windows/linux hybrid with the best parts from every system/community. Never gonna happen..! hmm

Again, good luck!


"Your beliefs can be like fences that surround you.
You must first see them or you will not even realize that you are not free, simply because you will not see beyond the fences.
They will represent the boundaries of your experience."

SETH / Jane Roberts

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#4 2007-04-22 22:37:33

Roberth
Member
From: Norway
Registered: 2007-01-12
Posts: 888

Re: Good bye Arch people..

I'm in that corner to sometimes...


Use the Source, Luke!

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#5 2007-04-22 22:42:29

junglepeanut
Member
From: California
Registered: 2007-01-24
Posts: 145
Website

Re: Good bye Arch people..

Actually my mac has linux (ported) and windows running on it as well. So I can use say kate for editing while running yahoo messenger for video conferencing, and windows for the hmm if I ever wanted to.... I don't know haven't started the windows part in a long time. lol

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#6 2007-04-23 06:52:49

darweth
Member
From: Brooklyn, NY
Registered: 2007-04-07
Posts: 68

Re: Good bye Arch people..

Good luck.  You will most likely be back.  If not Arch, some other flavor of Linux will tempt you once more in the future. wink  I consider this only a temporary reprieve.

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#7 2007-04-25 12:13:49

swordor1981
Member
Registered: 2007-04-25
Posts: 11

Re: Good bye Arch people..

I fact, BSD does not support wide charactor.

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#8 2007-04-25 13:03:31

chicha
Member
From: Nice (France)
Registered: 2007-04-20
Posts: 254

Re: Good bye Arch people..

Also make sure your hardware is properly handle on FreeBSD before removing your Arch partition ...
The *BSD community is smaller than the Linux one, thus you may miss some drivers. This was the case for me for with my Wifi card and a Zaurus I wanted to test.
Anyway, people over there are really nice, and I am sure you will learn a lot of things and feel like FreeBSD is a great system.

But I think you are going to be very disappointed, if you think things will be easier on FreeBSD. You will still face the same problems as Linux ones, specially with hardwares.

Anyway, come back and tell us about your opinion on FreeBSD, it will always be interesting !
Cheers,

Chicha

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#9 2007-04-25 13:22:06

ralvez
Member
From: Canada
Registered: 2005-12-06
Posts: 1,549
Website

Re: Good bye Arch people..

Sometimes when I see this type of posts I wonder if it is "them" or "me" but ... I do not seem to experience the instability many talk about. roll

It is true that from time to time I hit a small bump (like I had with Firestarter not working a couple of days ago) but it was resolved within a few days (3 I think) and meanwhile I kept using the "old" version, so I did not suffer any real disruption.

Do not get me wrong, I'm not criticizing your decision to leave, I just wonder if that is the type of annoyance you experience?

Or perhaps people that find these problems  to be too much are very "high productivity" oriented and those things cut into what they need from a professional point of view.

To me my computer is my "work tool" (I'm a programmer/web developer") but so far I have not felt that "I'm crippled" with this OS. In a sense, it is not less nor more unstable than other OSes; including Macs and Windows.

I hope you find what you are looking for in BSD. Good luck!!

R

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#10 2007-04-25 16:18:27

phrakture
Arch Overlord
From: behind you
Registered: 2003-10-29
Posts: 7,879
Website

Re: Good bye Arch people..

ralvez wrote:

Sometimes when I see this type of posts I wonder if it is "them" or "me" but ... I do not seem to experience the instability many talk about. roll

It is true that from time to time I hit a small bump (like I had with Firestarter not working a couple of days ago) but it was resolved within a few days (3 I think) and meanwhile I kept using the "old" version, so I did not suffer any real disruption.

Do not get me wrong, I'm not criticizing your decision to leave, I just wonder if that is the type of annoyance you experience?

Or perhaps people that find these problems  to be too much are very "high productivity" oriented and those things cut into what they need from a professional point of view.

To me my computer is my "work tool" (I'm a programmer/web developer") but so far I have not felt that "I'm crippled" with this OS. In a sense, it is not less nor more unstable than other OSes; including Macs and Windows.

I hope you find what you are looking for in BSD. Good luck!!

R

I agree 100%.  The biggest hurdle I had recently was upgrading.... oh I don't even remember... some app with an internal database and had to regen the db because the format changed.  It's not a big deal.  You hit this stuff in the windows world was well - the difference is that there's no "windows -Syu"

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#11 2007-04-25 21:56:24

STiAT
Member
From: Vienna, Austria
Registered: 2004-12-23
Posts: 603

Re: Good bye Arch people..

I don't see the difference between FreeBSD and Arch, except that arch has a far better package management system implemented with pacman (thanks to Aaron and all those guys).

The only choice i hate is the desktop choice in Linux. But that's nothing different, to find the "better one" is quite impossible, for me gnome and kde are both great, with their pros and contras.

But as a work tool, i'm far mor productive in linux than in Windows..


Ability is nothing without opportunity.

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#12 2007-04-27 04:04:15

Ryujin
Forum Fellow
From: Centerville, Utah
Registered: 2005-05-12
Posts: 246
Website

Re: Good bye Arch people..

These posts are interesting, I have run just about everything, and I mean it!  The reason I use Arch is because I keep coming back, and honestly it is the most stable one out there, sure Konqueror crashes every now and again, but who really cares, not me.  The only problem I see with Arch is that if you don't check the home page lots then you might pacman -Syu into trouble, but this has only happened to me three time in 2 years and on over 20 workstations and servers.  When stuff goes wrong in Arch, the fix is easy and the problem is small, other OSes the problems are dramatic and big, (or cost money to fix, blech!).  Arch needs some Love from time to time, but just a little!

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#13 2007-04-27 06:16:22

sweiss
Member
Registered: 2004-02-16
Posts: 635

Re: Good bye Arch people..

I think most of the problems we are having are due to the open source development model in general, which lacks QA and uses the actual users as testers.
Having said that, I doubt that the problems are actually related to the kernel - I believe they lie in the higher level applications, and so it probably won't matter much.

Either way, I wish you the best of luck. I ran FreeBSD on a virtual machine once, it takes some time getting used to it.

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#14 2007-04-27 13:44:10

oli
Member
From: 127.0.0.1
Registered: 2006-02-07
Posts: 164
Website

Re: Good bye Arch people..

>due to the open source development model in general

Have a look at commercial products, paying some developers to do their work isn't a guarantee for quality ... Windows, MacOS for example.

>I ran FreeBSD on a virtual machine once, it takes some time getting used to it.

Migrating from Arch to FreeBSD is easy as drinking some beer big_smile and vice versa too. Both of them match in most aspects.


Use UNIX or die.

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#15 2007-04-27 14:45:45

sweiss
Member
Registered: 2004-02-16
Posts: 635

Re: Good bye Arch people..

oli wrote:

>due to the open source development model in general

Have a look at commercial products, paying some developers to do their work isn't a guarantee for quality ... Windows, MacOS for example.

It is not about paying some developers, it is about paying some testers and QA personnel.

oli wrote:

>I ran FreeBSD on a virtual machine once, it takes some time getting used to it.

Migrating from Arch to FreeBSD is easy as drinking some beer big_smile and vice versa too. Both of them match in most aspects.

Well, I haven't used it for too long, still there were some differences. It wasn't as similar as I expected it to be, anyway.

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#16 2007-04-27 15:00:08

Weeks
Member
Registered: 2006-01-26
Posts: 91

Re: Good bye Arch people..

*BSD would be the only distribution I'd switch to as well. Its kernel may be a little too sensible (no FUSE support etc, etc, no HAL support, no udev, etc.) but its user-space programmes are suppose to be excellent from what I've heard. Their manual is also a big plus.

I was reading about that arch user moving over to ubuntu because it requires less configuration. Ubuntu and openSUSE seems okay, but their GUI abstraction on top of baroque internals puts me off. Mainly because when I want to change one of its internals I find they're generally neddlessly non-standard and overly complicated. I admire the amount of work they're doing for the community though i.e Upstart and the rest. Actually, I wouldn't use openSUSE because their patent deal with microsoft threatens to split the open-source community.

Good luck with BSD. I'd be interested to know what you conclude when you finally move.

Last edited by Weeks (2007-04-27 15:03:30)

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#17 2007-04-27 22:11:03

iphitus
Forum Fellow
From: Melbourne, Australia
Registered: 2004-10-09
Posts: 4,927

Re: Good bye Arch people..

Weeks wrote:

*BSD would be the only distribution I'd switch to as well. Its kernel may be a little too sensible (no FUSE support etc, etc, no HAL support, no udev, etc.) but its user-space programmes are suppose to be excellent from what I've heard. Their manual is also a big plus.

BSD doesnt have them because they're linux things, implemented in linux, bsd doesnt need udev. As for hal, FreeBSD has it afaik, not sure about the others.

I was reading about that arch user moving over to ubuntu because it requires less configuration. Ubuntu and openSUSE seems okay, but their GUI abstraction on top of baroque internals puts me off. Mainly because when I want to change one of its internals I find they're generally neddlessly non-standard and overly complicated. I admire the amount of work they're doing for the community though i.e Upstart and the rest. Actually, I wouldn't use openSUSE because their patent deal with microsoft threatens to split the open-source community.

openSUSE made no patent deal. Novell made a patent deal, openSUSE is an independent project, like Fedora is independent of Red Hat.

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#18 2007-04-28 00:43:32

oli
Member
From: 127.0.0.1
Registered: 2006-02-07
Posts: 164
Website

Re: Good bye Arch people..

Weeks wrote:

*BSD would be the only distribution I'd switch to as well. Its kernel may be a little too sensible (no FUSE support etc, etc, no HAL support, no udev, etc.) but its user-space programmes are suppose to be excellent from what I've heard. Their manual is also a big plus.

I was reading about that arch user moving over to ubuntu because it requires less configuration. Ubuntu and openSUSE seems okay, but their GUI abstraction on top of baroque internals puts me off. Mainly because when I want to change one of its internals I find they're generally neddlessly non-standard and overly complicated. I admire the amount of work they're doing for the community though i.e Upstart and the rest. Actually, I wouldn't use openSUSE because their patent deal with microsoft threatens to split the open-source community.

Good luck with BSD. I'd be interested to know what you conclude when you finally move.

Maybe this was true 10-15 years ago.

Fuse: http://fuse4bsd.creo.hu/

E.g. some modules, http://www.freshports.org/sysutils/fusefs-ntfs/ (you will find others too)

HAL: http://www.freshports.org/sysutils/hal/



Etc.? Maybe the lack of journaling filesystems? Snapshots are an alternative to journals, but there is some journaling addon for UFS in current and Sun ZFS too (100%). Sounddrivers maybe? HDA, emu10kx (Audigy2, 4), Envy24 is possible too since 2006. Maybe you are missing some application? 16.000+ ports, growing day by day. Virtualization? Jails. Emulation - there is something with Xen in work. There aren't many things someone will miss in FreeBSD. Most people don't like FreeBSD, because they have to build the applications from sourcecode, this is maybe for some of them a disadvantage. But I like it, I like abs in Arch too - compiling from sourcecode results imo in better quality.

You don't need certain things if you do have already an alternative solution for it wink


Use UNIX or die.

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#19 2007-04-28 01:58:47

Alphalutra1
Member
Registered: 2006-09-16
Posts: 59

Re: Good bye Arch people..

oli wrote:

Etc.? Maybe the lack of journaling filesystems?

That's what softdeps are for wink

Cheers,

Alphalutra1

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#20 2007-04-28 08:09:25

Crooksey
Member
From: UK ~
Registered: 2006-08-14
Posts: 415
Website

Re: Good bye Arch people..

You are bored of linux....

So switching to FreeBSD will now take all your time getting your hardware to work, goodluck smile

I have tried using FreeBSD as a desktopOS, it dosent work. tongue

There was a quote here once that was the best quote I have ever read, it is listed as follows.

Arch Linux ~Only your skills as a Linux user limit what is possible


Arch Linux since 2006
Python Web Developer + Sys Admin (Gentoo/BSD)

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#21 2007-04-28 08:55:26

Weeks
Member
Registered: 2006-01-26
Posts: 91

Re: Good bye Arch people..

oli wrote:
Weeks wrote:

*BSD would be the only distribution I'd switch to as well. Its kernel may be a little too sensible (no FUSE support etc, etc, no HAL support, no udev, etc.) but its user-space programmes are suppose to be excellent from what I've heard. Their manual is also a big plus.

I was reading about that arch user moving over to ubuntu because it requires less configuration. Ubuntu and openSUSE seems okay, but their GUI abstraction on top of baroque internals puts me off. Mainly because when I want to change one of its internals I find they're generally neddlessly non-standard and overly complicated. I admire the amount of work they're doing for the community though i.e Upstart and the rest. Actually, I wouldn't use openSUSE because their patent deal with microsoft threatens to split the open-source community.

Good luck with BSD. I'd be interested to know what you conclude when you finally move.

Maybe this was true 10-15 years ago.

Fuse: http://fuse4bsd.creo.hu/

E.g. some modules, http://www.freshports.org/sysutils/fusefs-ntfs/ (you will find others too)

HAL: http://www.freshports.org/sysutils/hal/



Etc.? Maybe the lack of journaling filesystems? Snapshots are an alternative to journals, but there is some journaling addon for UFS in current and Sun ZFS too (100%). Sounddrivers maybe? HDA, emu10kx (Audigy2, 4), Envy24 is possible too since 2006. Maybe you are missing some application? 16.000+ ports, growing day by day. Virtualization? Jails. Emulation - there is something with Xen in work. There aren't many things someone will miss in FreeBSD. Most people don't like FreeBSD, because they have to build the applications from sourcecode, this is maybe for some of them a disadvantage. But I like it, I like abs in Arch too - compiling from sourcecode results imo in better quality.

You don't need certain things if you do have already an alternative solution for it wink

heh okay - *brings himself up to 2007*

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#22 2007-04-28 12:16:30

oli
Member
From: 127.0.0.1
Registered: 2006-02-07
Posts: 164
Website

Re: Good bye Arch people..

Crooksey wrote:

You are bored of linux....

So switching to FreeBSD will now take all your time getting your hardware to work, goodluck smile

I have tried using FreeBSD as a desktopOS, it dosent work. tongue

There was a quote here once that was the best quote I have ever read, it is listed as follows.

Arch Linux ~Only your skills as a Linux user limit what is possible

Did you see *my* desktop at Arch or FreeBSD? wink

No certainly not, but you'll not find any eyecandy or desktop bloatware. Just plain Fluxbox, Mplayer, Vim, TeX, Doom III *g* etc. So desktop is okay, but FreeBSD isn't for mere beginners like ArchLinux. And a experienced user knows how to help himself wink


Use UNIX or die.

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#23 2007-04-28 21:55:35

Crooksey
Member
From: UK ~
Registered: 2006-08-14
Posts: 415
Website

Re: Good bye Arch people..

Im sorry but people who use FreeBSD on their desktop are just being elitest.


Arch Linux since 2006
Python Web Developer + Sys Admin (Gentoo/BSD)

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#24 2007-04-28 22:15:36

oli
Member
From: 127.0.0.1
Registered: 2006-02-07
Posts: 164
Website

Re: Good bye Arch people..

Crooksey wrote:

Im sorry but people who use FreeBSD on their desktop are just being elitest.

This was a nice discussion, don't kill it with trollish behavior. Thx. Quality software engineering isn't elitist, it's just quality. Someone could say, the momentum in Linux community is just because of the hate against Windows. This saying is common with Windows-fanboys ... but in the end it's the same crap, because of FUD.

Last edited by oli (2007-04-28 22:16:25)


Use UNIX or die.

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#25 2007-04-28 23:55:37

cactus
Taco Eater
From: t͈̫̹ͨa͖͕͎̱͈ͨ͆ć̥̖̝o̫̫̼s͈̭̱̞͍̃!̰
Registered: 2004-05-25
Posts: 4,615
Website

Re: Good bye Arch people..

patrick swayze speaks the truth.
long live Road House!


"Be conservative in what you send; be liberal in what you accept." -- Postel's Law
"tacos" -- Cactus' Law
"t̥͍͎̪̪͗a̴̻̩͈͚ͨc̠o̩̙͈ͫͅs͙͎̙͊ ͔͇̫̜t͎̳̀a̜̞̗ͩc̗͍͚o̲̯̿s̖̣̤̙͌ ̖̜̈ț̰̫͓ạ̪͖̳c̲͎͕̰̯̃̈o͉ͅs̪ͪ ̜̻̖̜͕" -- -̖͚̫̙̓-̺̠͇ͤ̃ ̜̪̜ͯZ͔̗̭̞ͪA̝͈̙͖̩L͉̠̺͓G̙̞̦͖O̳̗͍

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