Wiki overhaul

thayer · 2007-09-12 23:40:32

Over the past couple of days I've been doing my best to streamline various aspects of the Arch Wiki, including:
* renaming commonly used wikis to more appropriate titles (e.g. renaming Fglrx & Kernel 2.6 to ATI and How to install NVIDIA drivers to simply NVIDIA)
* categorizing uncategorized pages
* flagging old/obsolete pages for deletion
* cleaning up malformed category names

In doing so, I've noticed a couple of things...

1. There is still no reference to the excellent Table of Contents that was intended to make the wiki hierarchy easier to navigate. There really should be a prominent link on the Main Page, and maybe even in the sidebar. If more folks knew about the TOC then writers might have a better idea of where their pages belong. I would've added this myself, but the page is write-protected.

2. The use of both Tutorials and HOWTOs seems redundant at best. Not only are the two indistinguishable by definition, easily 98% of ALL wikis are tutorials/HOWTOs, whether it's about setting up ALSA or how to fix issues with a specific laptop model. It's pointless to categorize virtually every wiki entry as a tutorial. Instead, it would make more sense to use special categories for non-HOWTOs, such as the Guidelines or FAQs categories currently implemented already.

I'd like to know what the consensus is on these topics. If HOWTOs and Tutorials are out, is it possible to strip the category from all the relevant wikis?

Last edited by thayer.w (2007-09-12 23:42:43)

dolby · 2007-09-12 23:52:00

i agree with all these. especially the table of contents thing. if ppl contibuting to the wiki categorise articles wisely its probably the most useful link on the whole wiki. some ppl tend to get lost in there and it should certainly help. it should definately be in the main page.
also thanks for the contributed time & work

Last edited by dolby (2007-09-12 23:54:41)

cactus · 2007-09-12 23:55:58

thayer.w wrote:

Over the past couple of days I've been doing my best to streamline various aspects of the Arch Wiki, including:
* renaming commonly used wikis to more appropriate titles (e.g. renaming Fglrx & Kernel 2.6 to ATI and How to install NVIDIA drivers to simply NVIDIA)
* categorizing uncategorized pages
* flagging old/obsolete pages for deletion
* cleaning up malformed category names

Awesome. Maintaining documentation isn't always 'sexy'. I appreciate the effort. Seriously.

1. There is still no reference to the excellent Table of Contents that was intended to make the wiki hierarchy easier to navigate. There really should be a prominent link on the Main Page, and maybe even in the sidebar. If more folks knew about the TOC then writers might have a better idea of where their pages belong. I would've added this myself, but the page is write-protected.

Where do you think it should go?
The sidebar?
The front page?

2. The use of both Tutorials and HOWTOs seems redundant at best. Not only are the two indistinguishable by definition, easily 98% of ALL wikis are tutorials/HOWTOs, whether it's about setting up ALSA or how to fix issues with a specific laptop model. It's pointless to categorize virtually every wiki entry as a tutorial. Instead, it would make more sense to use special categories for non-HOWTOs, such as the Guidelines or FAQs categories currently implemented already.

I agree. I don't recall there being two such categories in the past, so maybe it is an artifact of some change or something.
To me, it makes complete sense to merge these two categories.

If a merger of those 'types' of pages is the consensus, then this needs to be updated too, and the other languages will need to be notified.

http://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Arc … egory_Tree

nesl247 · 2007-09-12 23:57:36

I agree 100% with thayer.w, he did a great job with the compiz fusion page, so I'll bet he's doing a great job on other pages.

thayer · 2007-09-13 00:12:31

Thanks for the feedback and I always thought documentation was 'sexy'! LOL Then again, I always RTFM too!

Honestly, I think the link to the TOC should be in both places...on the main page for the purpose of browsing the wiki by hierarchy, and a link in the sidebar for those who happen upon a wiki page without coming in through the front door. I know that the TOC could give a false sense of completeness (e.g. there will always be articles that aren't listed properly or at all) but I think it's the best way to instill a solid foundation for Arch documentation.

PS: For the record, my pursuits are a bit selfish... I don't like searching for data that should be readily accessible. I also feel it's the least I can do since I can't contribute to the community with code.

Last edited by thayer.w (2007-09-13 21:11:40)

thayer · 2007-09-13 00:19:43

In regards to the merging (or complete removal) of Tutorials and HOWTOs...what I was getting at in my original post was whether the Wiki admins could execute the massive amount of updates required for this from the backend (e.g. editing the database) on the server itself. Otherwise that's a whole lot of clickity-click!

Last edited by thayer.w (2007-09-13 00:20:16)

Mith · 2007-09-13 01:48:27

/me votes in favor of a wiki overhaul

one thing I noticed was that kdemod has its own wiki page but unless you know about it you'd never find it since the main kde wiki entry points there.. even a page about making your own split builds doesn't point to kdemod ^^ quite funny when you think about it...

cactus · 2007-09-13 02:34:03

thayer.w wrote:

In regards to the merging (or complete removal) of Tutorials and HOWTOs...what I was getting at in my original post was whether the Wiki admins could execute the massive amount of updates required for this from the backend (e.g. editing the database) on the server itself. Otherwise that's a whole lot of clickity-click!

Can you open a bug ticket for this on the bugtracker? I tend to lose track of things like this if I don't have some type of easy reference.
Just post the bug# and I will assign it to myself.

thayer · 2007-09-13 19:57:28

Thanks cactus, I've opened two bugs for ya (8012 and 8013) however neither of them have to do with the HOWTOs category. I moved all Tutorials to HOWTOs this morning. The bug reports are for the TOC link and also for the ALSA link on the Main Page.

cactus · 2007-09-13 20:24:35

Thanks thayer.

F · 2007-09-13 20:33:01

I, too, appreciate you doing this with the documentation because honestly (secretly) I think our wiki blows chunks.

finferflu · 2007-09-14 00:09:04

To be honest I love the Arch wiki, perhaps just because I wasn't used to such quality in contents, but if it can be improved in structure it's gonna be even better! I love how things evolve fast here in the Arch community.

Thanks, thayer.w for your effort

Last edited by finferflu (2007-09-14 00:10:21)

Mith · 2007-09-14 03:20:28

Since this is a thread for the wiki may I ask what the difference between these two wiki entries is?

http://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Cus … n_with_ABS
http://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Ker … n_with_ABS

I read through both and I think they both simply end up with a custom kernel so is it necessary to have both?

there actually is a post concerning this topic already:
http://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=37095

Even after reading that thread I still don't see the need for two entries.. just have one and stick with it.. or merge the two but don't confuse people as to which they should use if in the end the result is the same

Last edited by Mith (2007-09-14 03:39:10)

ruscook · 2007-09-14 06:44:30

finferflu wrote:

To be honest I love the Arch wiki, perhaps just because I wasn't used to such quality in contents, but if it can be improved in structure it's gonna be even better! I love how things evolve fast here in the Arch community.
Thanks, thayer.w for your effort

+1 to both sentiments in this email. Very much appreciated by this noob.

Russ

thayer · 2007-09-14 14:34:44

Yay, the TOC is now one of the main links on the Wiki's homepage. Thanks cactus!

I really don't deserve so many kudos, so thank you to everyone who helps keep the wiki running, both past and present!

Mith, I'll look into those two articles and see what can be done....but I've never built a custom kernel so I won't be cutting anything I don't understand! LOL

CocoAUS · 2007-09-22 02:58:20

How the eff do you delete pages? Blanking doesn't seem to work.

/wiki noob

Klenje · 2007-09-22 12:31:45

only admins can delete pages. Just put
{{delete}}
on a page and someone will take care of it

CocoAUS · 2007-09-22 15:35:23

Klenje wrote:

only admins can delete pages. Just put
{{delete}}
on a page and someone will take care of it

Thanks much. I've done that, but I wasn't sure if that was enough or if there was some "Up for deletion" page to add it to. Thanks!

eyolf · 2007-09-23 01:29:40

I also think most of the pages that are there, are good -- very good, even, with a good balance between "walkthrough" ("type this and this and this as root and press enter") and "knowledge base" ("type this and this and this because...").
BUT there is one exception: the wireless pages. They really, really need an overhaul.
I know, it has been said before, but that doesn't mean that it can't be said again.

CocoAUS · 2007-09-26 15:48:33

We need to come to a consensus on the appropriate way to provide commands. I see that some people are using "# command here", while others simply have "command here". The latter seems to make the most sense to me, since the "#" probably serves no purpose, and could very well be a "$" or something else. Also, when someone wants to copy the command, it's easier for them to copy the whole line. With a preceding "#", they have to unselect the first symbol before they copy the line.

Regardless, I think we should at least be consistent in how we present commands in the wiki.

nesl247 · 2007-09-26 15:50:32

I know on gentoo-wiki.com they tend to have templates for various things. Like one for showing editing of a file, one for executing commands, etc.

thayer · 2007-09-26 21:19:03

CocoAUS wrote:

... since the "#" probably serves no purpose, and could very well be a "$" or something else. Regardless, I think we should at least be consistent in how we present commands in the wiki.

Ah, but it does serve a purpose! The hash mark means the command must be run as root, whereas the dollar sign means it is possible to execute as a normal user. That is a very significant difference. Also, often times there are non-commands marked with the code tag and so using the #/$ symbols tells the reader that it is without a doubt a command.

I try to update any wiki entry I come across that doesn't follow this standard... and it is a standard found in most *nix-related books and manuals.

zodmaner · 2007-09-26 21:39:46

thayer.w wrote:

Ah, but it does serve a purpose! The hash mark means the command must be run as root, whereas the dollar sign means it is possible to execute as a normal user. That is a very significant difference. Also, often times there are non-commands marked with the code tag and so using the #/$ symbols tells the reader that it is without a doubt a command.

Agreed. Maybe we should add this information into Wiki for those who don't know what it's signify.

byte · 2007-09-27 00:40:06

CocoAUS wrote:

Klenje wrote:
only admins can delete pages. Just put
{{delete}}
on a page and someone will take care of it ;)
Thanks much. I've done that, but I wasn't sure if that was enough or if there was some "Up for deletion" page to add it to. Thanks!

It's {{deletion}}, actually.

And on a sidenote: If you do so, then also take care to check for links (Special:Whatlinkshere/Foo) that need to be changed.

Last edited by byte (2007-09-27 00:44:11)

Misfit138 · 2007-09-27 01:54:54

Mith wrote:

/me votes in favor of a wiki overhaul
one thing I noticed was that kdemod has its own wiki page but unless you know about it you'd never find it since the main kde wiki entry points there.. even a page about making your own split builds doesn't point to kdemod ^^ quite funny when you think about it...

Actually, I put a quick rundown of how to install kdemod under the KDE section of the Beginner's Guide.
I have been furiously trying to improve the wiki to the best of my ability, but all of us wiki enthusiasts need help from the Arch community in this regard. I have placed a few TODO's here and there in places where I have no experience (for instance a makeworld explanation in the ABS entry.)

Last edited by Misfit138 (2007-09-27 02:07:11)

Arch Linux

#1 2007-09-12 23:40:32

Wiki overhaul

#2 2007-09-12 23:52:00

Re: Wiki overhaul

#3 2007-09-12 23:55:58

Re: Wiki overhaul

#4 2007-09-12 23:57:36

Re: Wiki overhaul

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#6 2007-09-13 00:19:43

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#7 2007-09-13 01:48:27

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#8 2007-09-13 02:34:03

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#9 2007-09-13 19:57:28

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#10 2007-09-13 20:24:35

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#11 2007-09-13 20:33:01

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#13 2007-09-14 03:20:28

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#14 2007-09-14 06:44:30

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#15 2007-09-14 14:34:44

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#16 2007-09-22 02:58:20

Re: Wiki overhaul

#17 2007-09-22 12:31:45

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#18 2007-09-22 15:35:23

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#19 2007-09-23 01:29:40

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#20 2007-09-26 15:48:33

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