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#1 2007-09-18 16:43:38

thayer
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From: Vancouver, BC
Registered: 2007-05-20
Posts: 1,560
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Questions about moving and categorizing international wikis

In my quest to streamline the Arch Wiki, I've encountered some situations that need clarification...

Is there is an official document outlining the proper category and wiki naming schemes for other languages, such as Russian?  For example, some pages are titled Xorg (Russian) while others are titled ATI (Русский) and there's even some that are entirely Russian without any language declaration in parenthesis, such as Установка и настройка Xorg. What is the proper way to handle these?

Also, I would like to implement a Table of Contents for each of the languages presented on the Main Page (i18n: cs de en es fr it lt nl pl pt-BR pt-PT ru sk th uk zh-CN zh-TW).  I know the majority of these i18n TOC's would require further translation by native writers, but does this sound like a good idea in order to get some of the international wikis placed into proper categories?


thayer williams ~ cinderwick.ca

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#2 2007-09-18 17:16:40

Dusty
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From: Medicine Hat, Alberta, Canada
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Posts: 5,986
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Re: Questions about moving and categorizing international wikis

thayer.w wrote:

Is there is an official document outlining the proper category and wiki naming schemes for other languages, such as Russian?

I'm pretty sure there is, but I'm not certain what it is.... oops. I remember discussing this extensively with foxbunny, but I don't remember what we finally settled on. Yes the names should be made consistent. I don't know if he's around here much anymore, but if you can't find our discussion somewhere in this forum or a document he made on the wiki discussing the topic, I'm sure he'd respond to a quick e-mail.


Also, I would like to implement a Table of Contents for each of the languages presented on the Main Page (i18n: cs de en es fr it lt nl pl pt-BR pt-PT ru sk th uk zh-CN zh-TW).  I know the majority of these i18n TOC's would require further translation by native writers, but does this sound like a good idea in order to get some of the international wikis placed into proper categories?

Yes, that would be great. Not sure if its possible for languages you don't know.

Also, bear in mind that some international communities have chosen to maintain wikis separately from archlinux.org (Francais,Deutsch, and Espanol that I know of). It would be better to link to their external sites from our wiki than to maintain internationalized versions here. But if we have pages in our wiki that they don't have, these pages should ideally be moved to their wiki. The trick is to find the maintainers of the international wikis. :-)

Dusty

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#3 2007-09-18 17:33:41

Pierre
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From: Bonn
Registered: 2004-07-05
Posts: 1,950
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Re: Questions about moving and categorizing international wikis

Perhaps we should take this post as a start to remove those pages which are within an exteranl wiki now.

PS: Can anybody give me permission to delete/move pages?

Last edited by Pierre (2007-09-18 17:35:48)

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#4 2007-09-18 18:16:11

thayer
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From: Vancouver, BC
Registered: 2007-05-20
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Re: Questions about moving and categorizing international wikis

Thanks for the tips, Dusty.  I did find some information in the wiki that pretty much answered my questions... and it's definitely not a task to be taken lightly! There are just so many factors to consider, such as whether one language will ever have sufficient documentation to justify a TOC. If it doesn't, the question should then be asked whether their articles should be categorized by language alone, such as Category:Lietuviškai.


thayer williams ~ cinderwick.ca

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#5 2007-09-18 20:11:47

Snowman
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From: Montreal, Canada
Registered: 2004-08-20
Posts: 5,212

Re: Questions about moving and categorizing international wikis

Pierre wrote:

Perhaps we should take this post as a start to remove those pages which are within an exteranl wiki now.

PS: Can anybody give me permission to delete/move pages?

Tag the pages to be removed with
{{deletion}}

It will list it in a special category and a wiki sysop/admin (like myself) will remove it.

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#6 2007-09-18 20:18:14

Pierre
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From: Bonn
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Posts: 1,950
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Re: Questions about moving and categorizing international wikis

quite complicated, isn`t it? ;-)

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#7 2007-09-22 07:21:48

cheer
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From: Russia, St. Petersburg
Registered: 2006-08-02
Posts: 131

Re: Questions about moving and categorizing international wikis

I don't know what is the proper way to name the russian articles. I like Xorg_(Russian) because it doesn't contain non-english characters, but if the article is named "Get All Mouse Buttons Working" may be it is too complicated for people that don't know English. And there the same question, but about categories, not articles.

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#8 2007-09-22 20:18:03

thayer
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From: Vancouver, BC
Registered: 2007-05-20
Posts: 1,560
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Re: Questions about moving and categorizing international wikis

@ Dusty & Snowman:
Cheer and I have been discussing (via email) which naming convention to use for Russian articles.  I have been moving Russian articles to match the internationalization taxonomy of Article Title (Русский), however Cheer feels that we should use Article Title (Russian) instead.  According to Cheer, this is the general consensus of the Russian Arch Linux community (and by community I mean Russian Arch users).

I'm not trying to ruffle any feathers here, but I would like to know what the official consensus is, so that all existing (and future) articles can be dealt with accordingly.

Thanks for your input!

Edit: clarified my meaning of community

Last edited by thayer.w (2007-09-22 20:46:01)


thayer williams ~ cinderwick.ca

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#9 2007-09-22 20:31:25

cheer
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From: Russia, St. Petersburg
Registered: 2006-08-02
Posts: 131

Re: Questions about moving and categorizing international wikis

No, not community, but users.
I would like to name the articles "_(Russian)" because this name of the article is in English and the name of the article is the part of its URL.
I would like to have an option like "post slug" on wordpress. This is useful for wikies, when you can separate the name of the article and its URL.

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#10 2007-09-23 15:34:08

Dusty
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From: Medicine Hat, Alberta, Canada
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Re: Questions about moving and categorizing international wikis

Hey guys,

I don't think there is much consensus, really. Personally, I would like to see someone decide on a "Best Way" and ensure it is consistently used across the wiki.

From an English-speaking maintainer's point of view, I like Cheer's version: "ArticleName (Language)" -- All English. This is because if I want to move articles around, I need to know what the article is and also what language it is in.

However, if I were an international user of the wiki, I would prefer it was all in my native language. I think foxbunny and I originally settled on "English Article Name (international language name)" because it splits the difference.

But now that I think of it, I think articles should be titled in all English. Then if any one international user community suddenly reaches a critical mass, they can create and maintain their own forum and wiki completely in their own language. The ArchLinux website is definitely designed for people with at least a little English, so lets have the wiki follow that.

Note: this is just my own personal opinion as a wiki user and maintainer, not an ultimatum as a wiki admin. In the end, I think its more important to be consistent than anything else, so pick one method and try to make the whole thing conform to it.

Thayer: Thanks for all your hard work, BTW!

Dusty

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#11 2007-09-24 23:58:24

thayer
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From: Vancouver, BC
Registered: 2007-05-20
Posts: 1,560
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Re: Questions about moving and categorizing international wikis

Thanks for the input, Dusty and you're very welcome.  I guess what I'll do for Russian then is use ArticleName (Russian) until something official comes down the pipe. Cheers, thanks for your feedback and I understand your concerns... I hope this addresses all of them.


thayer williams ~ cinderwick.ca

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#12 2007-09-25 00:33:07

Dusty
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From: Medicine Hat, Alberta, Canada
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Re: Questions about moving and categorizing international wikis

That's probably about as official as its going to get around here. ;-)

Dusty

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#13 2010-04-15 10:29:45

jobinson99
Member
Registered: 2008-10-28
Posts: 5

Re: Questions about moving and categorizing international wikis

i hate the Pointone/i18n standard :Title in English (Language)
it is not a userfriendly way for non-english users.

i think the better way is :Title in Language(Language)
or Title in Languge(Language name in English)


And please do not auto-move the page with good translation to the  Pointone/i18n way, it make a lot of loss of good title translation and user-friendly.

Last edited by jobinson99 (2010-04-15 10:31:27)

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#14 2010-04-15 12:37:21

Allan
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From: Brisbane, AU
Registered: 2007-06-09
Posts: 10,362
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Re: Questions about moving and categorizing international wikis

You are better to start a new thread discussing this rather than revive (multiple) old threads.
http://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/For … Bumping.27

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