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#1 2004-04-12 01:24:11

topito
Member
From: Catalonia
Registered: 2004-03-25
Posts: 118
Website

My 5 cents about AL after 3 weeks

Ok, i have been using AL for 3 weeks and in my own opinion I can see some bad thigs:

1.- Some packages are really weird packaged.

for example, some just packages are not properly built, for example extra/id3lib (to say one, cos there are a lot, just do a find / -group users) just breaks permision on all files that are installed (me.user). Come on, even the mantaneirs never runs mancap? please, check the permisions at least, I can not really understand that, I love linux cos averything has his own premisions, without that we have another ms windows crap.

2.- Some people can't get in.

It is being like debian. For example I think that I can help but there is no way to get in. TURs just do not help me to get in, ok, I can compile some shit and maybe that will be in extra someday but that is not the way. I think I can help but I CAN'T and I want.

Ok, I know that some people will reply me like if I was a troll, but not, I just want to have the best distro installed in my harddik.

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#2 2004-04-12 01:53:38

Dusty
Schwag Merchant
From: Medicine Hat, Alberta, Canada
Registered: 2004-01-18
Posts: 5,986
Website

Re: My 5 cents about AL after 3 weeks

I wouldn't say there are a "lot" of bad packages, and I wouldn't go around insulting the maintainers, who are doing their best, are overworked, are volunteers. Arch works on their systems, or they wouldn't use it; I have absolutely no idea why they go out of their way to make it work on other peoples'.

Your post seems a little angry, but perhaps its just the English.

It takes a while to be accepted in this weird-ass community. You can't just say "I wanna be a TUR" and expect it to happen. The T in TUR stands for trusted. wink

Having said that, I think it is commendable that you want to help the community more.  Start with submitting bug reports, packages, forum answers, and wiki documents, rather than complaints.

If you don't think Arch is the best distro, don't use it, of course. If you want to fork it, go ahead. If you want to join the community, show that you're going to be helpful, don't demand it. smile

Dusty

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#3 2004-04-12 02:05:54

linfocito
Member
From: Gurupi - TO, Brasil
Registered: 2003-05-18
Posts: 82

Re: My 5 cents about AL after 3 weeks

Just pointing the most important about the best way to help Archlinux:

...submitting bug reports, packages, forum answers, and wiki documents, rather than complaints.


"...archoholism is a hard disease to cure..."
Archlinux Brasil

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#4 2004-04-12 02:06:01

kritoke
Member
From: Texas, USA
Registered: 2003-08-01
Posts: 211
Website

Re: My 5 cents about AL after 3 weeks

Ever since I became a TUR, it has given me a lot more respect for maintainers.  It can be a real pain getting everything working and some of us do have actual lives outside of arch.  If there are problems, e-mail the maintainer or submit a bug report.  No use in complaining without actually contacting those who could fix what's wrong.  Some programs are inheriently horrible when you compile them and have them install using the make command, I've ran into ones that make user writable files in places where they shouldn't be able to be touched.  Best way to become a TUR is submit a lot of packages to incoming and suck up to at least two TUR people, as we need to sponsor you before you can be accepted into the program.

Kritoke


http://counter.li.org/ Registered Linux User #318963 kritoke@jabber.org

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#5 2004-04-12 02:26:07

kakabaratruskia
Member
From: Santiago, Chile
Registered: 2003-08-24
Posts: 596

Re: My 5 cents about AL after 3 weeks

topito wrote:

Ok, I know that some people will reply me like if I was a troll, but not, I just want to have the best distro installed in my harddik.

????


And where were all the sportsmen who always pulled you though?
They're all resting down in Cornwall
writing up their memoirs for a paper-back edition
of the Boy Scout Manual.

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#6 2004-04-12 02:36:06

topito
Member
From: Catalonia
Registered: 2004-03-25
Posts: 118
Website

Re: My 5 cents about AL after 3 weeks

Dusty wrote:

I wouldn't say there are a "lot" of bad packages, and I wouldn't go around insulting the maintainers, who are doing their best, are overworked, are volunteers. Arch works on their systems, or they wouldn't use it; I have absolutely no idea why they go out of their way to make it work on other peoples'.

well, trust me, my english maybe sucks, cos I am not an english mother tongue, so, but, I am just tring to say, that some work like running manpac to EACH packages build must be a MUST, or just check it for yourself, check permisions, paths, everything, it is really weird to submit a package if you do not do that.

Ok, I really trust ALL mantainers (never insulting them, that should be really stupid), but, come on, I trust them and I just had a broke permisions linux distro.

Dusty wrote:

Your post seems a little angry, but perhaps its just the English.

Well, I am not english tongue, so maybe my english just sucks (sure), but I have read my post twice and I think it is mostly saying what I want to say. "I am not angry, just serious."

Dusty wrote:

It takes a while to be accepted in this weird-ass community. You can't just say "I wanna be a TUR" and expect it to happen. The T in TUR stands for trusted. wink

Having said that, I think it is commendable that you want to help the community more.  Start with submitting bug reports, packages, forum answers, and wiki documents, rather than complaints.

I am doing that, well I have being just most of my linux life a bug reporter, that's really good, cos developers can know how is their programs going.

But trust me, not exactly the same for a distro, if people before "normal users" do not work properly everything is crap (OK, i know that after saying that I will we crusified -do not even know if that is and english word-, but doesn't matter, I am just saying what I thing). We CAN NOT habe a crappy linux with crappy permissions cos that is the escence of linux.

Dusty wrote:

If you don't think Arch is the best distro, don't use it, of course. If you want to fork it, go ahead. If you want to join the community, show that you're going to be helpful, don't demand it. :)Dusty

Sure, I just think that AL IS THE BEST DISTRO LINUX, but I ALSO think that some things have to be changed (or at least think about it), I will never do a fork cos I think that forks just sucks linux and GPL, all ideas and members and ideas are splitted around and nobody gains about it.

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#7 2004-04-12 04:33:52

mavric
Member
From: B.C. Canada
Registered: 2004-01-03
Posts: 24

Re: My 5 cents about AL after 3 weeks

To quote Dusty:

Dusty wrote:

I have absolutely no idea why they go out of their way ...'.

I agree- I don't understand why maintainers/developers/community members go out of their way to help those who are ungrateful and or demanding. They certainly don't have to! Lets make it easier on them by contributing to the cause, not just pointing out the mistakes and demanding they be fixed.

A big thank-you to those who volunteer their time to make Arch a better distro!

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#8 2004-04-12 04:34:58

Xentac
Forum Fellow
From: Victoria, BC
Registered: 2003-01-17
Posts: 1,797
Website

Re: My 5 cents about AL after 3 weeks

topito wrote:

Ok, i have been using AL for 3 weeks and in my own opinion I can see some bad thigs:

1.- Some packages are really weird packaged.

for example, some just packages are not properly built, for example extra/id3lib (to say one, cos there are a lot, just do a find / -group users) just breaks permision on all files that are installed (me.user). Come on, even the mantaneirs never runs mancap? please, check the permisions at least, I can not really understand that, I love linux cos averything has his own premisions, without that we have another ms windows crap.

Most of the packages with problems were last touched before namcap ever existed.  They weren't checked because they weren't updated.

I'm confident that all the maintainers use namcap on a regular basis.

topito wrote:

2.- Some people can't get in.

It is being like debian. For example I think that I can help but there is no way to get in. TURs just do not help me to get in, ok, I can compile some shit and maybe that will be in extra someday but that is not the way. I think I can help but I CAN'T and I want.

Ok, I know that some people will reply me like if I was a troll, but not, I just want to have the best distro installed in my harddik.

You've been around for three weeks and you want to be in the club?  How do we know that you won't do worse stuff than you're accusing us of doing?

Here's a list of things that will greatly benefit someone becoming a maintainer (for the record):
1. Be around for at least a month
2. Be active in the community, help people out, be nice, show that you're knowledgeable.
3. Be prolific, bring something to the table, don't just say you want to be a maintainer because you think you can do a good job.  Do a good job first, then we'll talk.


I have discovered that all of mans unhappiness derives from only one source, not being able to sit quietly in a room
- Blaise Pascal

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#9 2004-04-12 05:32:34

Dusty
Schwag Merchant
From: Medicine Hat, Alberta, Canada
Registered: 2004-01-18
Posts: 5,986
Website

Re: My 5 cents about AL after 3 weeks

topito wrote:

Well, I am not english tongue, so maybe my english just sucks (sure), but I have read my post twice and I think it is mostly saying what I want to say. "I am not angry, just serious."

Its a pain to try to write or think in a second+ language. I commend you for your attempts, it is quite clear. I was just pointing out that the tone is somewhat accusatory.

Xentac wrote:

Here's a list of things that will greatly benefit someone becoming a maintainer (for the record):
1. Be around for at least a month
2. Be active in the community, help people out, be nice, show that you're knowledgeable.
3. Be prolific, bring something to the table, don't just say you want to be a maintainer because you think you can do a good job. Do a good job first, then we'll talk.

hmmmm.... *Wheels turn* wink

Dusty

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#10 2004-04-12 07:50:53

TheRaginAsian
Member
From: Brooklyn MI
Registered: 2004-04-05
Posts: 70
Website

Re: My 5 cents about AL after 3 weeks

We should be careful as to compare to Debian, the scale is MUCH smaller in this case, you can expect some problems here and there. I've used a Debian-Based distro as well, and I have to say that pacman still has MUCH more going for it than I feel apt-get ever will. The problems will come, and well work through it... im sure your tweaked about your permissions, I might be too, but I suppose you coulda compiled it yourself? More bug reports, less bugs!


John Gallias
Technician/Friend/Bassist
http://www.concretearmy.com
john@concretearmy.com
john.gallias@gmail.com
Arch Linux v0.7 (Wombat), XFce 4.2, XOrg, Firefox

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#11 2004-04-12 09:39:44

maccorin
Member
Registered: 2004-03-14
Posts: 24

Re: My 5 cents about AL after 3 weeks

TheRaginAsian wrote:

More bug reports, less bugs!

that only works if the bugs are actually fixed

i have to say, archlinux is great, i love it in many ways, but the developmental process is not one of them

archlinux and it's devs seems to take the same point of view as the various BSD's (the cathedral), which is great for a large in-house project with lots of people that have lots of time, but not so great for a web-based project where the main devs can't spend 40 hours a week working on it.


RTFM

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#12 2004-04-12 10:06:20

Arielext
Member
From: Amersfoort, the Netherlands
Registered: 2002-08-12
Posts: 362
Website

Re: My 5 cents about AL after 3 weeks

Dusty wrote:

It takes a while to be accepted in this weird-ass community. You can't just say "I wanna be a TUR" and expect it to happen. The T in TUR stands for trusted. wink

That's why I'm the only UUR around here smile


apt-get install arch

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