Decisions, decisions......

mrabbit · 2007-10-30 21:01:16

I really want to get into programming, but I don't know what programming language to use. C and C++ annoy me with having to #include stuff that isn't even third party (iostream for example), Java irritates me, .NET languages are too Microsoft specific.

Try to turn me to one of those please, or suggest an alternative. (No scripting languages please.)

hacosta · 2007-10-30 21:13:04

what do you mean when you say #include stuff that isn't even third party?

mrabbit · 2007-10-30 21:16:07

For example, you have to include common stuff like iostream. It's one thing to include third party libraries, but iostream?

tam1138 · 2007-10-30 22:03:24

Get over it.

Nihathrael · 2007-10-30 22:20:28

You have include both in C/C++/Java. I'd suggest you choose one of those. Java would be the "newer" version, c/c++ the "older" linux way. I started with Java(not counting in a bit php/html/logo) and am doing C++ now. I think the other way arround would have been a little easier, but it's ok this way. Depends on what you are planning to do. If you need cross-platform support, use Java, if not, i'd say start with C/C++. But that's just me.

cactus · 2007-10-30 22:23:42

You might try D.
I dont' think it uses includes quite as much.
And you don't have to specify header files.

jordi · 2007-10-30 22:42:30

(No scripting languages please.)

may i ask why no scripting languages?

Allan · 2007-10-31 00:07:37

I'd recommend C++. From my experience is allows you to follow C and Java code so that is good.... And it is good to include only what you want - makes for leaner programs.

veek · 2007-10-31 01:45:44

Includes are a fundamental part of how C and C++ work. They are preprocessor directives that let you, the programmer, control what external code you need access to. Furthermore, most languages have some similar mechanism for including external code. It really does make sense.

That said, in my opinion it's logical to learn C or C++ for several reasons. One is that they are very common. You can follow the code of tons of open source programs, add features, debug, make patches, etc. Not to mention that you can follow along with linux kernel code and drivers.

Once you are comfortable in C and C++ it's not difficult to pick up other languages because despite their differences they have many basic similarities. What will really help you with programming in general is learning data structures, and object oriented programming.

Basu · 2007-10-31 02:19:44

If you have absolutely no programming experience, I would suggest Python. Whatever it's reputation as a scripting language, it is a damn good starter language. However, among the ones you mentioned, I should start C or C++ and then move on to Java.

F · 2007-10-31 05:02:12

C is powerful. Get over your biases.
Get over not liking scripting languages. Learn Perl.

elasticdog · 2007-10-31 20:37:02

I'd second looking at D...take a quick look here for some differences that D makes versus C++ Some reflections on programming in D, and why it kicks serious ass over C++, leaving it dead and broken on the sidewalk

mrabbit · 2007-11-05 21:41:14

My main problem with scripting languages is that they tend to be dynamically typed, and offer no elegant way to store anything other than strings and integers.

elasticdog · 2007-11-06 02:50:25

mrabbit wrote:

My main problem with scripting languages is that they tend to be dynamically typed, and offer no elegant way to store anything other than strings and integers.

What about Python Pickling?

phrakture · 2007-11-06 03:47:46

mrabbit wrote:

My main problem with scripting languages is that they tend to be dynamically typed, and offer no elegant way to store anything other than strings and integers.

You're making things up. I have no idea where this comes from, but I see a lot of things like this.

You said yourself you weren't a programmer - so why is "they are dynamically typed" a bad thing? Also... "no elegant way to store.... " wha? That statement doesn't even make sense.

You need to stop forming opinions based on what you're read on l-t-u and just try something. I'd point you to python, as, in my opinion, it's the best for beginners.

peets · 2007-11-06 04:00:32

Start differently: Lisp, Erlang and Haskell!

C is good for general knowledge.
C++ is way too complicated.
D looks very interesting.
Perl is fun if you've already coded with something else.
I want to learn Python.
Java is useful for huge things. If you want a job, Java might be a good thing. If you are a hobbyist, I don't know... I'd try Python, Ruby or D. But that's just what I want to learn next, I don't even know those languages. "I need to stop forming opinions on what I've read..." I didn't know about l-t-u yet.

pauldonnelly · 2007-11-06 04:09:30

Learn Lisp and Smalltalk so you can hold it over everyone else's head. Then once you know how to design good programs, you can learn fiddly languages like C since they're the lingua franca of the programming world.

drakosha · 2007-11-06 06:58:27

Please forgive me, but "C and C++ annoy me with having to #include stuff that isn't even third party (iostream for example)" is really idiotic statement.
It's like "it annoys me to open car doors, so i don't drive"

voodoo.child · 2007-11-06 13:16:53

I use C++ (or occasionally C) for big/complicated projects and Python for fast prototyping. It's really fast and easy to program in Python, and I recommend you to try it (of course, if you don't need speed ).

Arch Linux

#1 2007-10-30 21:01:16

Decisions, decisions......

#2 2007-10-30 21:13:04

Re: Decisions, decisions......

#3 2007-10-30 21:16:07

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#4 2007-10-30 22:03:24

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#5 2007-10-30 22:20:28

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#6 2007-10-30 22:23:42

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