Windows/Arch Dual Boot Issue

arew264 · 2007-11-21 22:30:06

Okay, so I have had an Arch box running for a while, and my family owns a HP Media Center that has had Windows issues for quite some time. It's used for web browsing, so I'm trying to get it to multiboot Windows and Linux and hopefully get someone other than me in the family to use Linux.

My hard drive (in partition order from start to end) is partitioned like this:
sda3 boot partition /boot ext2
sda1 (some HP system restore thing) (not mounted) FAT32
sda2 Windows XP (not mounted... yet) NTFS
sda5 System / reiserfs
sda6 home /home reiserfs
sda7 swap

The first three partitions are primary, and the last three are logical, if that helps any. I'm not sure why they are numbered this way, but that's how it is.
The issue is that in the installer, I installed GRUB to the boot partition (and not the MBR) as is in the guide in the Wiki. I then enabled Windows XP as a boot option (also as in the wiki).
Yet when I boot up, I get a blinking cursor. Why will the BIOS not load GRUB?

When I first found this, I put in the install disk, remounted all the partitions in setup (but didn't recreate the filesystems), and reinstalled GRUB to the boot partition. I also went into cfdisk and set the boot partition as the only bootable partition, and it still boots to a blinking cursor.

I then used the install disk to boot into my new installation to make sure all was well, and when I navigated to /boot (as root), there was nothing there. I had a momentary panic, then typed mount /boot and was told that ext2 was an unrecognized filesystem type.

What's going on here?

Lone_Wolf · 2007-11-21 22:48:46

Since you didn't install grub in the MBR, the MBR wasn't changed .

The MBR still has the windows MBR, and that one only understands booting from fat or ntfs partitions (if my memory is correct) .

While you could boot the windows partition and use the windows bootloader to start grub, this is complicated.

Installing grub in the MBR is a lot easier.

I then used the install disk to boot into my new installation to make sure all was well, and when I navigated to /boot (as root), there was nothing there. I had a momentary panic, then typed mount /boot and was told that ext2 was an unrecognized filesystem type.

Sorry, no idea.

arew264 · 2007-11-21 23:03:25

Thank you, installing to th MBR did fix it. I wonder why the guide tells you not to?
Anyway, now I have the problem of getting Windows to boot. My windows installation is on sda2, so the GRUB entry should look like:
title Windows XP
rootnoverify (hd0,1)
chainloader +1

right?

Also, does anyone have any idea how I could get that ext2 error? ext2fsprogs is installed, so I don't know what's going on.
The error is "mount: unknown filesystem type 'ext2'

For now, even if I figure out how to get Windows to boot, I still have to go into the install disk to edit the grub config.

Last edited by arew264 (2007-11-21 23:11:38)

Lone_Wolf · 2007-11-21 23:11:16

You need to add a makeactive line, also it is better to set the windows partition bootable with cfdisk.
(the grub boot partition doesn't need to have the bootable flag)

The entry in menu.lst would look something like this :
# (1) Windows
title Windows XP
rootnoverify (hd0,1)
makeactive
chainloader +1

Edit :
I'm not sure what the guide says about installing grub, but the installer recommends installing grub in the MBR.

Last edited by Lone_Wolf (2007-11-21 23:12:56)

arew264 · 2007-11-21 23:15:39

Actually, for future note, if you boot into a system through the install disk, you get that ext2 error. If you go straight into the system from a bootloader, it's fine.
I feel like an idiot because of that

arew264 · 2007-11-21 23:22:31

I rechecked and Windows is in fact at sda2, but GRUB will not boot it, it prints that it's booting Windows and the settings for Windows, but it sits there. I'll investigate NTFS mounting to see if I do a quick check of my installation.
Is there anything else I'm supposed to do to get Windows to play nice with GRUB?

arew264 · 2007-11-21 23:28:45

Hrmm, I installed ntfs-3g and ran mount -t ntfs /dev/sda2 /mnt/windows (after creating /mnt/windows), and my system froze in a very odd way. I could switch between terminals, but trying to login on another terminal wouldn't work - it just sat there instead of pulling up the shell.
I'll keep fiddling and hope.

MrWeatherbee · 2007-11-21 23:33:55

Lone_Wolf wrote:

Edit :
I'm not sure what the guide says about installing grub, but the installer recommends installing grub in the MBR.

I couldn't find anything directly warning against installing to the MBR in the Wiki dual-boot article, it's just that the particular process they describe is the 'install to boot partition' method. However, a link from the Wiki says (emphasis theirs):

http://www.geocities.com/epark/linux/gr … HOWTO.html

Install GRUB on the first sector of the /boot partition. DO NOT INSTALL IT ON THE MBR!.

Again, it is the prerogative, preference and opinion of the author.

I personally don't like messing with the MBR either because instead of just getting a failed [and more easily fixed] installation of your Linux distro (Arch, in this case) as might happen when installing to the boot partition, you could end up with a completely unbootable system that is less easily fixable if things go wrong with the MBR.

Again, just personal preference. But, I also use BootIt NG as my boot manager, and I really don't have to worry about Windows or anything else that resides on the disks other than the distro at hand.

arew264 · 2007-11-21 23:41:02

I actually use BootIt NG in maintenance mode to partition my drive, but I don't have registration info or anything, and I hate it when it beeps at me because I haven't bought it and the 30 day installed trial is up.

Anyway, I have booted into Knoppix and confirmed that the Windows install is still there, at sda2, but I still can't get GRUB to boot it. Ugh.

MrWeatherbee · 2007-11-21 23:49:37

arew264 wrote:

I actually use BootIt NG in maintenance mode to partition my drive, but I don't have registration info or anything, and I hate it when it beeps at me because I haven't bought it and the 30 day installed trial is up.
Anyway, I have booted into Knoppix and confirmed that the Windows install is still there, at sda2, but I still can't get GRUB to boot it. Ugh.

Well, I almost am tempted to say that BootIt NG is the best piece of software I've ever used, but that just sounds too hyperbolic. It certainly is versatile and rock solid. I guess the biggest drawback is that I would be lost if I had to actually configure my booting processes without it (and some things I do are impossible without it).

But, BootIt is commercial as you note. Everything has an Achilles heel.

Edit:

I need to add that I'm sorry I can't be of any real help as my experience is using a whole different process. I'm sure between yourself, Lone_Wolf and others you'll be able to hammer this one out.

Last edited by MrWeatherbee (2007-11-22 00:10:13)

arew264 · 2007-11-22 00:02:46

Still no Windows, I'll get some files and output up here as soon as I get X installed.

MrWeatherbee · 2007-11-22 00:13:03

Wait a second. I think you have a fundamental flaw in your disk setup. Windows doesn't like being set-up behind other OSes. I'm basing this on your stated disk partitioning scheme. I kinda skimmed over all that when I first started posting here as I was focusing on the MBR vs. boot partition issue.

But you're not even at a point where that will make a difference one way or the other with your partitions like they are.

Last edited by MrWeatherbee (2007-11-22 00:18:28)

arew264 · 2007-11-22 00:28:57

Okay, here is my menu.lst

# Config file for GRUB - The GNU GRand Unified Bootloader
# /boot/grub/menu.lst

# DEVICE NAME CONVERSIONS 
#
#  Linux           Grub
# -------------------------
#  /dev/fd0        (fd0)
#  /dev/hda        (hd0)
#  /dev/hdb2       (hd1,1)
#  /dev/hda3       (hd0,2)
#

#  FRAMEBUFFER RESOLUTION SETTINGS
#     +-------------------------------------------------+
#          | 640x480    800x600    1024x768   1280x1024
#      ----+--------------------------------------------
#      256 | 0x301=769  0x303=771  0x305=773   0x307=775
#      32K | 0x310=784  0x313=787  0x316=790   0x319=793
#      64K | 0x311=785  0x314=788  0x317=791   0x31A=794
#      16M | 0x312=786  0x315=789  0x318=792   0x31B=795
#     +-------------------------------------------------+

# general configuration:
timeout   5
default   0
color light-blue/black light-cyan/blue

# boot sections follow
# each is implicitly numbered from 0 in the order of appearance below
#
# TIP: If you want a 1024x768 framebuffer, add "vga=773" to your kernel line.
#
#-*

# (0) Arch Linux
title  Arch Linux
root   (hd0,2)
kernel /vmlinuz26 root=/dev/sda5 ro
initrd /kernel26.img

# (1) Arch Linux
title  Arch Linux Fallback
root   (hd0,2)
kernel /vmlinuz26 root=/dev/sda5 ro
initrd /kernel26-fallback.img

# (1) Windows
title Windows XP
rootnoverify (hd0,1)
makeactive
chainloader +1

As I stated, my Partitions are:

sda3 boot partition /boot ext2
sda1 (some HP system restore thing) (not mounted) FAT32
sda2 Windows XP (not mounted) NTFS
sda5 System / reiserfs
sda6 home /home reiserfs
sda7 swap

In that order.
I think this may have to do with the problem, but I don't know: the last three partitions are logical, and the first three are primary. Would that throw Windows off or something?

This configuration will not boot windows, GRUB just says it's booting Windows and then sits there. Can anyone see anything wrong with this? I've checked and rechecked it, and I can't see anything wrong.

Also, if this helps, this is the output from fdisk -l

Disk /dev/sda: 250.0 GB, 250059350016 bytes
255 heads, 63 sectors/track, 30401 cylinders
Units = cylinders of 16065 * 512 = 8225280 bytes
Disk identifier: 0x97073300

   Device Boot      Start         End      Blocks   Id  System
/dev/sda1              20         549     4248688+   b  W95 FAT32
Partition 1 does not end on cylinder boundary.
/dev/sda2   *         549       13297   102400200    7  HPFS/NTFS
/dev/sda3               1          20      158760   83  Linux
Partition 3 does not end on cylinder boundary.
/dev/sda4           13297       30401   137388352+   5  Extended
/dev/sda5           13297       14513     9767488+  83  Linux
/dev/sda6           14513       29953   124021768+  83  Linux
/dev/sda7           29953       30401     3599001   82  Linux swap / Solaris

Partition table entries are not in disk order

Last edited by arew264 (2007-11-22 01:03:55)

mrunion · 2007-11-22 01:03:52

Is your Windows "boot.ini" file correct? Is there a chance it's pointing to a different partition that what is "/dev/sda2"? I dual boot Linux and Windows (Vista, YUCK!) using GRUB and here is my boot.ini:

[boot loader]
default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS
[operating systems]
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Windows Vista" /fastdetect

My Windows partition lives on /dev/sda1, not /dev/sda2. This may help you out and may not.

arew264 · 2007-11-22 01:05:53

OH! You're right!
When I was setting this up, the original configuration was the restore partition and then the windows partition, and I added a partition in front (with much resizing).
Thanks! I'll get right on that.

arew264 · 2007-11-22 02:04:33

ARGH, that doesn't seem to do anything. The windows drive is sda2 and the third partition, yet
default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(2) and
default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(3)
don't work. I'm not sure how the Microsoft convention works here, but I'll keep fiddling.

MrWeatherbee · 2007-11-22 05:37:18

arew264 wrote:

When I was setting this up, the original configuration was the restore partition and then the windows partition, and I added a partition in front (with much resizing).

Okay. I've taken a break from the computer for a while and come back to see if anything good has happened here. I also went back and read your posts more carefully, and with the quote above I see what you did with your disk.

Points for future reference:

1 Moving partitions around like you did is never a very sure thing, even if you used BootIt NG to do it (did you?)

2. Moving partitions around just to create a Linux boot partition at the head of the disk is never a good thing, since this is only a requirement for very old hardware; the Wiki article mentions creating the boot partition at the head of the disk but it says, rightly:

It is important to note that there is a 1024 cylinder limit with some older BIOSs. This means that the BIOS cannot access things beyond the 1024th cylinder (about 8.5GB), so the /boot partition should be in the first 8.5GB (in space before Windows partition). GParted LiveCD or a partitioning tool in SystemRescueCd are useful for moving and resizing partitions to accommodate this.

Though essentially correct, the Wiki article should probably flag that particular section with high visibility warnings to offset it from the rest of the text and additionally warn of the potential problems with moving / resizing partitions. Do note that the initial partitioning example the Wiki article used (I did not post it here) placed the boot partition after the Windows installation. Placing the /boot partition after the existing Windows installation limits dangerous moving and resizing operations.

3. Finally, but not least of all, a separate boot partition is completely unnecessary, excluding the possibility that it might help resolve the aforementioned older hardware situation (the Wiki did mention this further down in the article as an alternate partitioning scheme). The following is one partition scheme example that could have been used with Grub installed to the root partition of your Linux installation:

Primary: HP recovery
Primary: Windows:
Extended
--- Logical: Linux / < -- install Grub here
--- Logical: Linux /home
--- Logical: Linux /swap

Doing so is safe as it avoids (or limits) messing with existing partitions and does not touch the MBR.

>> Possible solutions (we can hope) and additional reading material from BootIt NG (some of it is generic information, some specific, and even in cases where the situation isn't exactly like yours, it may turn on a light bulb):

1. Windows 2000/XP/2003 Fails to Start after Manipulating Partitions in BootIt NG:
http://www.terabyteunlimited.com/kb/idx … 4cdff90ad5

2. How to Prevent Boot Problems When Manipulating a Bootable Windows 2000/XP/2003 Partition (don't do it or back everything up first ):
http://terabyteunlimited.com/kb/article.php?id=179

3. How Partition Numbers are Assigned in BOOT.INI
http://www.terabyteunlimited.com/kb/idx … 4cdff90ad5

Maybe something in these links is helpful. Good luck.

arew264 · 2007-11-22 05:57:40

It seems it was HP's fault all along. Instead of having the bootloader on the windows disk, they had it on the backup disk, but there was a boot.ini on both disks. Ugh. Having GRUB chainload the backup disk got me to the windows bootloader, now I just have to get the windows bootloader to load Windows.

arew264 · 2007-11-22 06:02:24

YES IT WORKS!!!!
But yea, they had the bootloader on the backup partition but configs on both partitions, tricky fellows over in HP. Once I got that (which took several hours of trial and error), I just fixed the config and it booted right up. w00t.

A huge thank you to all who helped, I wouldn't have been able to do this without you.

Arch Linux

#1 2007-11-21 22:30:06

Windows/Arch Dual Boot Issue

#2 2007-11-21 22:48:46

Re: Windows/Arch Dual Boot Issue

#3 2007-11-21 23:03:25

Re: Windows/Arch Dual Boot Issue

#4 2007-11-21 23:11:16

Re: Windows/Arch Dual Boot Issue

#5 2007-11-21 23:15:39

Re: Windows/Arch Dual Boot Issue

#6 2007-11-21 23:22:31

Re: Windows/Arch Dual Boot Issue

#7 2007-11-21 23:28:45

Re: Windows/Arch Dual Boot Issue

#8 2007-11-21 23:33:55

Re: Windows/Arch Dual Boot Issue

#9 2007-11-21 23:41:02

Re: Windows/Arch Dual Boot Issue

#10 2007-11-21 23:49:37

Re: Windows/Arch Dual Boot Issue

#11 2007-11-22 00:02:46

Re: Windows/Arch Dual Boot Issue

#12 2007-11-22 00:13:03

Re: Windows/Arch Dual Boot Issue

#13 2007-11-22 00:28:57

Re: Windows/Arch Dual Boot Issue

#14 2007-11-22 01:03:52

Re: Windows/Arch Dual Boot Issue

#15 2007-11-22 01:05:53

Re: Windows/Arch Dual Boot Issue

#16 2007-11-22 02:04:33

Re: Windows/Arch Dual Boot Issue

#17 2007-11-22 05:37:18

Re: Windows/Arch Dual Boot Issue

#18 2007-11-22 05:57:40

Re: Windows/Arch Dual Boot Issue

#19 2007-11-22 06:02:24

Re: Windows/Arch Dual Boot Issue

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