mixing software QT & GTK

rdking · 2008-01-10 02:36:36

I don't want to bring up the sensitive issue of QT versus GTK+ (and gnome versus KDE) blather....we all have our choice and that is great.

I have been using linux for some 3 years, and have never looked back to MS since I did. I love being in control, having a stable clean, safe platform...and one which doesn't cost me every year to keep up on the latest software. But I find myself asking a few questions.....

As a regular user, I need certain programs, a word processor for everyday, spreadsheet, mail, browser etc....The problem is, my applications of choice, span both those requiring QT and GTK. For word processing I prefer Kword over abiword...for spreadsheets Gnumeric is much superior to Kcalc (because it offers more functions,chart types and will output charts directly to png or jpg)...email, well thats korganizer with kmail, though truth be told thunderbird, if it had a real good calendar would trump it. And firefox for browsing. Oh, and for real Latex work, nothing beats Kile (which is simplified by saving your spreadsheets and charts as pics).

I prefer the expandability and control, and looks so use KDEmod over gnome, but in some cases, the gnome counterparts are simply better thought out, or more complete programs. Now I don't mind the overhead of all the libraries, and the odd program which doesn't blend into my desktop.... but I have to question it all.

So much work is put into all these competing programs, based off different libraries and tool-chains....wouldn't life be easier for all, if we adopted one or the other....or standardized everything with a new system? Some people can't deal with the load of all the extra libraries, space, and memory. Is there an answer...is it comming down the tube...or do we simply continue picking the best programs for our individual needs, regardless of whether they are QT or GTK

freakcode · 2008-01-10 14:40:38

"wouldn't life be easier for all, if we adopted one or the other....or standardized everything with a new system?"

Who's "we?"

Anyway... KDE and Gnome are two separate, competiting projects. They follow FreeDesktop.org specification to remain compatible with small things like Copy & Paste and interprocess communication. But you can't expect they to join up and create standards for widgets, libraries, interface guidelines and so on... because standards drain out the inovation - in the end, KDE and Gnome would be all the same thing, and THAT is duplicated effort. And, of course, this is FOSS. You CAN'T stop someone from doing whatever hell he wants, even if its reinventing the whell.

As the time passes by, you start to see more and more differences between KDE and Gnome. Even KDE4 is a lot different from KDE3 itself. As result, all the other apps under the desktop environment umbrela absorb those diferences too.

So, if you want "one truth", you won't find it on Linux.

Last edited by freakcode (2008-01-10 14:52:21)

STiAT · 2008-01-11 12:43:51

You will not find "one truth" but "your truth".
It is about picking programs which fit your needs. I'm picking them by my personal preferences ... mozilla, gaim, kate - so different programs out of different environments. And it's not a bad thing yet - since they work.

schivmeister · 2008-01-12 17:51:12

What is all this fuss? I have no problem running everything in one environment. They are just a set of widgets. What overhead? Well I'm not doing real work on old machines so that doesn't worry me. And the main thing that cheers me up: QtCurve But sometimes, I like different apps to have different looks.

ConnorBehan · 2008-01-14 20:19:53

Many programs can use GTK and Qt. Openoffice and VLC are two examples that come to mind. I think they accomplish this with WxWidgets. Maybe the "standardizing everything with a new system" that you are talking about could simply be applying this code to all GUI programs. Editing the source code of every program to use both GTK and Qt depending on what you prefer would certainly make life easier in the long run... it would just take a long time to do initially.

X/ax · 2008-01-14 20:29:50

ConnorBehan wrote:

Many programs can use GTK and Qt. Openoffice and VLC are two examples that come to mind. I think they accomplish this with WxWidgets. Maybe the "standardizing everything with a new system" that you are talking about could simply be applying this code to all GUI programs. Editing the source code of every program to use both GTK and Qt depending on what you prefer would certainly make life easier in the long run... it would just take a long time to do initially.

And would be basically useless, the design, or the way the window gets displayed (be it gtk, qt, wxwidgets, whatever) does not change the workflow of the program for the better, but it makes the code larger, and most likely even the binaries.
A common way is plain impossible, unless you look back the m$ way, everything there (tries) to be the same. The point in FOSS is that you have differences, that you have innovation, and through those things gain more than you have to give up.

Just my 2 cents (I'm using euro, but do whatever currency you like)

ConnorBehan · 2008-01-14 20:39:25

So you're saying the developers for Openoffice and VLC are doing pointless work and should drop support for one of them? I guess if fans of a certain program really wanted to put a lot of work into making the program ideal for their system, they could edit the source code and change from GTK to Qt or Qt to GTK. Maybe if people start doing that and spread their work around, virtually every program will have two packages eventually, like Qalculate does now.

X/ax · 2008-01-14 20:54:08

ConnorBehan wrote:

So you're saying the developers for Openoffice and VLC are doing pointless work and should drop support for one of them? I guess if fans of a certain program really wanted to put a lot of work into making the program ideal for their system, they could edit the source code and change from GTK to Qt or Qt to GTK. Maybe if people start doing that and spread their work around, virtually every program will have two packages eventually, like Qalculate does now.

I'm not saying that, I'm merely saying that it would not be my preferred way of working, if the programmers of openoffice / vlc found it valuable, it's their time.
I'm not telling that it's a bad thing. Just saying that it won't be 100% constructive.

schivmeister · 2008-01-15 16:46:02

It would be nice though, if there's some application-level style changing menu, for any widget set. Say for Qt, maybe there could be a rules option in QT prefs to define a different style to a different class, same goes for GTK+ Hmm now to hunt down code and inspiration.

andre.ramaciotti · 2008-01-15 19:13:11

You mean something like being able to change some settings of, for example, gtkrc for only some applications? I don't know if you can do it with Qt, nor all GTK apps, but some of the GTK apps allow you to do it.

schivmeister · 2008-01-16 18:59:06

yeah there are some apps that let you choose the style, but they are only a minority. i was thinking more of the widget-side, where Qt and GTK+ would let users define such things in a config file/menu like:

name=Firefox,style=qtcurve

Well not to say that these are the only widget toolkits, but mostly anyway.

ConnorBehan · 2008-01-17 01:21:48

andre.ramaciotti wrote:

You mean something like being able to change some settings of, for example, gtkrc for only some applications? I don't know if you can do it with Qt, nor all GTK apps, but some of the GTK apps allow you to do it.

Some Qt apps also let you do it. PDFedit has settings to change between SGI, CDE, Motif, Platinum, etc, independent of what all of Qt is set to.

In theory shouldn't it be possible to just write a GTK theme and then write a Qt theme that looks exactly the same?

kamahl · 2008-01-17 20:52:44

"and the odd program which doesn't blend into my desktop."

And what's wrong with gtk-qt-engine?

eljoeb · 2008-02-01 13:05:43

kamahl wrote:

"and the odd program which doesn't blend into my desktop."
And what's wrong with gtk-qt-engine?

I'm not sure about any technical problems but... After installing it and using some gtk apps in KDE, it all looked hideous; the fonts drove me nuts. I found the fixes for it, but it still seemed to be more trouble than its worth.

But then again, I don't really care if a program doesn't fit into my desktop.

pelle.k · 2008-03-06 12:49:06

There is a lot of sense in going with a common toolkit, and that doesn't mean firefox and opera can't both be doing what they do best, while sharing the same framework/toolkit. But then again, you can argue that two major toolkits *are* needed because it boosts innovation, but i think that's more of a bad excuse for not wanting to let go in many cases.
If, and i say *if*, Qt and GTK was indeed not intended to do pretty much the same thing, then i would agree that we need them both.

That is not going to happen any day now though. Much like telling a muslim to let go and become christian (or vice versa), people swear by QT and GTK in much the same way.

There is also the possibility of using a layer in between that makes the two toolkits "blend" in, and become pretty much transparent to the end user. That would be (and it is also going that way with freedesktop.org) a pretty good compromise.

schivmeister · 2008-03-06 21:33:47

But if one of them is to become the standard, we all know which one that's gonna be.

Jessehk · 2008-03-06 22:04:30

schivmeister wrote:

But if one of them is to become the standard, we all know which one that's gonna be.

The suspense is killing me. Which one?

pelle.k · 2008-03-06 22:36:42

If you don't already know, you're not supposed to know, yet...
You already know it, but you may not know you know it, until you know it.
It's a bit like nirvana in that respect!

Last edited by pelle.k (2008-03-06 22:41:08)

schivmeister · 2008-03-07 20:03:48

pelle.k wrote:

It's a bit like nirvana in that respect!

Exactly!

skottish · 2008-03-07 21:02:20

Nirvana == Enlightenment, so the winner clearly is EWL/EFL!

ConnorBehan · 2008-03-07 22:25:05

Well Trolltech just got bought by Nokia, so that might change how Qt is developed. If they stop developing it altogether, KDE is allowed to pick up where they left off.

Arch Linux

#1 2008-01-10 02:36:36

mixing software QT & GTK

#2 2008-01-10 14:40:38

Re: mixing software QT & GTK

#3 2008-01-11 12:43:51

Re: mixing software QT & GTK

#4 2008-01-12 17:51:12

Re: mixing software QT & GTK

#5 2008-01-14 20:19:53

Re: mixing software QT & GTK

#6 2008-01-14 20:29:50

Re: mixing software QT & GTK

#7 2008-01-14 20:39:25

Re: mixing software QT & GTK

#8 2008-01-14 20:54:08

Re: mixing software QT & GTK

#9 2008-01-15 16:46:02

Re: mixing software QT & GTK

#10 2008-01-15 19:13:11

Re: mixing software QT & GTK

#11 2008-01-16 18:59:06

Re: mixing software QT & GTK

#12 2008-01-17 01:21:48

Re: mixing software QT & GTK

#13 2008-01-17 20:52:44

Re: mixing software QT & GTK

#14 2008-02-01 13:05:43

Re: mixing software QT & GTK

#15 2008-03-06 12:49:06

Re: mixing software QT & GTK

#16 2008-03-06 21:33:47

Re: mixing software QT & GTK

#17 2008-03-06 22:04:30

Re: mixing software QT & GTK

#18 2008-03-06 22:36:42

Re: mixing software QT & GTK

#19 2008-03-07 20:03:48

Re: mixing software QT & GTK

#20 2008-03-07 21:02:20

Re: mixing software QT & GTK

#21 2008-03-07 22:25:05

Re: mixing software QT & GTK

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