KDE4.0 necessary to archlinux, now and not in 6 months

moustic · 2008-01-11 22:05:00

It is more than year since we wait for KDE4.0 and his exit today is a big news.

A lot of distribution offers KDE4.0 in testing in parallel to KDE3.5.8 except archlinux.

Why ? Because persons think that KDE4.0 is only a version of development of KDE without interest for the general public !

KDE4.0 is a major advance in the world of the free offices, it is the only one this day !

It is impossible for archlinux to ignore it so allow we too to use KDE4.0.

Blind · 2008-01-11 22:16:50

kdemod provides testing packages.
http://www.kdemod.ath.cx/

Cheers,
Blind

Allan · 2008-01-11 23:13:46

It is in testing for all other distributions because no-one considers it stable in any form. Usable, yes. Stable, no. Arch has a relatively small number of developers so they don't need to waste their time on things that are known to be buggy and will never make it into the actual distribution.

Last edited by Allan (2008-01-11 23:14:52)

sula · 2008-01-11 23:16:31

It is in testing because it is new packs , in almost every distro new packages come into some kind of "testing" repos ,co it is in arch. I can assure you that kde 4.0 will be in "currrent" repositories of many distors soon.

JaQoB · 2008-01-11 23:42:24

I actually agree. If arch doesn't offer a convinent way to install KDE4.0, alot of people will leave, if so only temporarily.
It is possible that kdemod saves the day thou...

phrakture · 2008-01-12 00:04:32

Our KDE maintainer has decided that KDE4 has FAR too many regressions and breakages from the 3.X series. I do not use KDE so I cannot speak to this claim, but he is looking out for YOU. It is usable, but the claim of the maintainer is simply that: too much usability is lost to be usable yet.

I'm sure tpowa has packages somewhere that you can use if you're looking to break your system, though.

toofishes · 2008-01-12 00:05:01

Guess what? If we were every other distribution, why would we exist?

We do have a small development staff. The KDE maintainer has decided it isn't worth it to switch to KDE4 yet, so we aren't packaging it.

But guess what? We have a great community here. People are able to do things on their own, outside the development circle. I'm sure someone will have it packaged and ready for users to install. The kdemod group is clearly looking out for those who want to use KDE4, so more power to them.

We'll have people leave? Oh well. I guess Arch didn't have enough things going right for it. I wish them the best elsewhere.

decimal · 2008-01-12 01:44:19

Most people probably want KDE 4 for the so much advertised eye-candy and widgets, I'm almost sure that these are the same people who started using linux when they saw Compiz-Beryl.

lucke · 2008-01-12 02:07:27

As been stated many times in many places already, Kdemod team does offer KDE4. What's the problem then? Enable one repo and use KDE4 to your heart's content. It doesn't need to be in a official repo for you to be able to enjoy it.

ozar · 2008-01-12 02:08:17

decimal wrote:

Most people probably want KDE 4 for the so much advertised eye-candy and widgets, I'm almost sure that these are the same people who started using linux when they saw Compiz-Beryl.

Eewww... <vomit-smilie-goes-here> all that garbage makes me sick! Hopefully, it's easy to turn OFF or delete in the new KDE4. Personally, I'm in no hurry at all to replace KDE3.5.8 with it.

Rulatir · 2008-01-12 02:25:21

lucke wrote:

As been stated many times in many places already, Kdemod team does offer KDE4. What's the problem then?

No 64bit!

Wilson Phillips · 2008-01-12 02:28:39

Come on guys. We may have a shortage of developers, but we have no shortage of smart folks here that can put this together. There are lots of members who don't have time to be on the development team full time, but could pitch in this weekend. Instead of whining and complaining, start a thread and build a team. You just have get your butts in gear.

That said, I am with ozar. I am quite happy with 3.5.8 and my 1 week old install is running pretty sweet.

Shaika-Dzari · 2008-01-12 02:44:38

Come on everyone.
Try kdemod if you want to install it easilly or get the PKGBUILD and build it
Stop complaining.

Look here for more info:
http://kdemod.ath.cx/bbs/viewtopic.php?id=406

lucke · 2008-01-12 02:54:31

Rulatir wrote:

lucke wrote:
As been stated many times in many places already, Kdemod team does offer KDE4. What's the problem then?
No 64bit!

...yet, I presume.

stylopath · 2008-01-12 11:35:59

Has anyone of the crybabies that are complaining about missing KDE4 ever tried it?

It is KDE4.0 because the Framwork is finished, but the apps are not. It takes less than an hour seeing that KDE4.0 is a nice preview and a gift to the developers (now they can finally integrate their applications)- but not a usable desktop environment!

There are missing Programs (amarok etc), compatibility Problems (not EVERY kde3.x app works), missing widgets etc.
People that are wanting to use a unstable DE just for eye-candy should be able to activate a third-party-repo and install from that (sad that kdemod doesn't offer x64 packages).

For testing and developing purposes, KDE4.0 is great! But it has NOTHING to do with a stable DE and so it sould NOT hit the current repos (arch is bleeding edge, but STABLE).
KDE4.0 in testing would make sense for users that want to test, but it's unnecessary work for the developers because they know in advance that KDE4.0 is full of bugs.

So in my oppinion (after testing kde4.0 a while) the current way is the right one.
What counts (in order to be bleeding edge) is an early adoption of KDE4.1 (which is supposed to be what many users expect oft KDE4.0 - the first _really_ stable version).

For those x64-users: Hopefully you will find some PKGBUILDS in the AUR soon .

JaDa · 2008-01-12 14:23:15

You will use KDE4 with Archlinux
http://kdemod.ath.cx/

have fun with it

I am using on a testbox KDE4 with Archlinux and with openSUSE 10.3 and I can tell it is nice eyecandy but stable? KDE4 it is far away from stable and a long way to go.

Zer0 · 2008-01-12 17:51:33

stylopath wrote:

Has anyone of the crybabies that are complaining about missing KDE4 ever tried it?
It is KDE4.0 because the Framwork is finished, but the apps are not. It takes less than an hour seeing that KDE4.0 is a nice preview and a gift to the developers (now they can finally integrate their applications)- but not a usable desktop environment!

Agreed.. KDE4 is far from a "usable everyday desktop". I'm and avid fan of KDE but there's no way I would move from 3.5.8 to 4.0 in it's current state. The 3 series is very polished and complete and the 4 series is like a new born without good coordination.

That being said. The boyz over at KDEmod have filled the void for 4.0 and they might just surpise us with a 64 bit version. Then again the KDEmod team has only 2 official developers and I'm sure they're work load is big enough.

The Arch community will pull threw this.. if there's enough demand then it's users will roll their own KDE4 64bit and throw it in AUR.. That's part of the beauty of Arch. The power to contribute to the AUR repo.

schivmeister · 2008-01-12 22:39:36

Same, no hurry. I am in absolute harmony with my current KDE 3.5.8

On-topic, I wouldn't mind if it spends a bit more in testing. I'd rather have a well-tested package.

mrunion · 2008-01-13 02:21:33

I like Gnome better than KDE4. But I did install from one of the KDE4 repositories to play arond with it. I agree -- it's cool but not "ready". Even the KDE4 devs say the same thing. The FRAMEWORK is KDE4 now, but "KDE" isn't "KDE 4.0 as a whole" yet. I wouldn't move it into mainstream. Anyone who wants it can do a quick search on the forums, find a repo and install it in little more than the time it takes to do the download.

It's there if you want it. I removed it. I LIKED it, but I removed it. I -- a Gnome fan and user -- actually installed XFCE and am playing with it and LIKING it!

Shifty · 2008-01-13 03:14:54

stylopath wrote:

The Arch community will pull threw this..

There's already a number of users which have been involved with the packaging process. Even myself (with limited experience at it) was able to learn from Tardo's beta2 packages and keep up with everything. Now its just a matter of building new SVN versions whenever I have time as development heads toward 4.1. If anyone wants to try it out, have a look at http://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=33536 - the latter pages have the more interesting stuff (including repos), and there are some PKGBUILD sets to peruse if you want. But if you aren't as confident, the KDEmod guys are also working on a version which supports existing 3.5.8 apps.

Having said that, I'm not running a mixed KDE3/4 system (i did initially, but it was a pain to maintain) nor do I have any expectations regarding features or stability from the initial release. It was an great experience - building packages from a rapidly changing environment, familiarising myself with the KDE build tools like cmake, keeping up with the porting status of various apps. I wouldn't recommend it for the faint of heart (KDM4 didn't work for me until just after the tagging of 4.0.0, amarok2 works but lacks the featureset of 1.4) but if you don't mind spending some time getting it up and running, its certainly worth trying.

And now my taskbar is flickering green and black. Awesome.

.:B:. · 2008-01-13 05:12:30

I'll gladly make a prediction here. While it may be true users may (temporarily) leave Arch because of KDE 4 not being present in the stable repos, they will come back once they realise KDE 4 is feature-wise nothing compared to KDE 3. Not yet.

Then again, switching distros because KDE 4 is in Testing and not in extra is completely silly; open up your pacman.conf, enable testing, grab that stuff, and live on the edge. Whether it be running testing or KDE 4, i think you'll experience more problems with KDE 4 than with testing alltogether.

Just my 2 cents of course!

mrunion wrote:

But I did install from one of the KDE4 repositories to play arond with it. I agree -- it's cool but not "ready". Even the KDE4 devs say the same thing.

And it is a sad thing to see even its own devs say it. KDE has its merits, and I'm a happy user of some excellent KDE 3 apps, but don't release software as stable if it is not. Open source software had a good name of being really stable when declared stable - thanks to KDE 4 that is now up for grabs. The beta was an alpha, the RC was a beta... I guess we didn't saw this one coming.

Last edited by B (2008-01-13 05:17:58)

kishd · 2008-01-13 07:11:37

B wrote:

And it is a sad thing to see even its own devs say it. KDE has its merits, and I'm a happy user of some excellent KDE 3 apps, but don't release software as stable if it is not. Open source software had a good name of being really stable when declared stable - thanks to KDE 4 that is now up for grabs. The beta was an alpha, the RC was a beta... I guess we didn't saw this one coming.

I don not think that kde 4.0 is unstable. I think that it is just not ready to provide same desktop experience that kde 3.5.8 provides due to missing features etc. These will be added by the time 4.1 is released.

Abadaar · 2008-01-13 08:03:45

http://www.kdedevelopers.org/node/3174

STiAT · 2008-01-13 13:21:13

Zer0 wrote:

stylopath wrote:
Has anyone of the crybabies that are complaining about missing KDE4 ever tried it?
It is KDE4.0 because the Framwork is finished, but the apps are not. It takes less than an hour seeing that KDE4.0 is a nice preview and a gift to the developers (now they can finally integrate their applications)- but not a usable desktop environment!
Agreed.. KDE4 is far from a "usable everyday desktop". I'm and avid fan of KDE but there's no way I would move from 3.5.8 to 4.0 in it's current state. The 3 series is very polished and complete and the 4 series is like a new born without good coordination.
That being said. The boyz over at KDEmod have filled the void for 4.0 and they might just surpise us with a 64 bit version. Then again the KDEmod team has only 2 official developers and I'm sure they're work load is big enough.
The Arch community will pull threw this.. if there's enough demand then it's users will roll their own KDE4 64bit and throw it in AUR.. That's part of the beauty of Arch. The power to contribute to the AUR repo.

I don't consider the kde3 series as "complete", for it's implementation of hardware layers (aRts/ALSA especially).

But, reasons not to use KDE4.0 (WHICH IS NOT KDE4, as stated by the KDE developers).

First of all, it is unstable. It has glitches, and does not run on any host without troubles from the beginning.

It has missing features and applications

The developers stated, that the so long awaited "plasma" interface has not even reached nearly a end-state of development, and is not even close to the limit of the possibilities it should provide one day when kde4 is in a more mature state.

KDE4.0 was brought out for early adopters, as well as developers (see development platform released), for adopting and porting applications. That was the reason to release a KDE4.0, not for having a full featured desktop.

I agree, that there should be packages for kde4, for those early adopters and developers who will port applications. But therefore, we have kdemod, and Jan is providing very good packages for kde4 there.

Note: Early adopters are thought to use a desktop to report glitches, problems, bugs and similar. It's not thought for them as a main "productive" desktop also.

I'm a kde user now for almost 10 years, when KDE 1.0 appeared. I will wait for KDE4.1 or 4.2 until i switch, since I could live with kde3 quite fine so far, and can live with it for another year as well. Note that the release of KDE4.1 is most likely scheduled for the end of the year 2008. This huge time gap for development also properly shows how much is missing for reaching a productive full featured KDE4 desktop. Also, i think that 4.1 will have many bugs also, so i expect to switch some day between 4.1 an 4.2 - which won't hold me off from testing kde4 though.

Also you should note, that the kde3 desktop will still be maintained, bugs will be fixed, and we may will see another development release some day later in 2008.

Last edited by STiAT (2008-01-13 13:30:38)

moustic · 2008-01-13 13:48:36

We want just KDE4.0 in testing, no more ...

Of course, KDE4.0 can't be used in production and we will use KDE3.5.8 for production.

The problem is that KDE4.0 use qt(qt4) like KDE3.5.8 use qt(qt3) and some softwares for KDE4.0 are in testing.

Arch Linux

#1 2008-01-11 22:05:00

KDE4.0 necessary to archlinux, now and not in 6 months

#2 2008-01-11 22:16:50

Re: KDE4.0 necessary to archlinux, now and not in 6 months

#3 2008-01-11 23:13:46

Re: KDE4.0 necessary to archlinux, now and not in 6 months

#4 2008-01-11 23:16:31

Re: KDE4.0 necessary to archlinux, now and not in 6 months

#5 2008-01-11 23:42:24

Re: KDE4.0 necessary to archlinux, now and not in 6 months

#6 2008-01-12 00:04:32

Re: KDE4.0 necessary to archlinux, now and not in 6 months

#7 2008-01-12 00:05:01

Re: KDE4.0 necessary to archlinux, now and not in 6 months

#8 2008-01-12 01:44:19

Re: KDE4.0 necessary to archlinux, now and not in 6 months

#9 2008-01-12 02:07:27

Re: KDE4.0 necessary to archlinux, now and not in 6 months

#10 2008-01-12 02:08:17

Re: KDE4.0 necessary to archlinux, now and not in 6 months

#11 2008-01-12 02:25:21

Re: KDE4.0 necessary to archlinux, now and not in 6 months

#12 2008-01-12 02:28:39

Re: KDE4.0 necessary to archlinux, now and not in 6 months

#13 2008-01-12 02:44:38

Re: KDE4.0 necessary to archlinux, now and not in 6 months

#14 2008-01-12 02:54:31

Re: KDE4.0 necessary to archlinux, now and not in 6 months

#15 2008-01-12 11:35:59

Re: KDE4.0 necessary to archlinux, now and not in 6 months

#16 2008-01-12 14:23:15

Re: KDE4.0 necessary to archlinux, now and not in 6 months

#17 2008-01-12 17:51:33

Re: KDE4.0 necessary to archlinux, now and not in 6 months

#18 2008-01-12 22:39:36

Re: KDE4.0 necessary to archlinux, now and not in 6 months

#19 2008-01-13 02:21:33

Re: KDE4.0 necessary to archlinux, now and not in 6 months

#20 2008-01-13 03:14:54

Re: KDE4.0 necessary to archlinux, now and not in 6 months

#21 2008-01-13 05:12:30

Re: KDE4.0 necessary to archlinux, now and not in 6 months

#22 2008-01-13 07:11:37

Re: KDE4.0 necessary to archlinux, now and not in 6 months

#23 2008-01-13 08:03:45

Re: KDE4.0 necessary to archlinux, now and not in 6 months

#24 2008-01-13 13:21:13

Re: KDE4.0 necessary to archlinux, now and not in 6 months

#25 2008-01-13 13:48:36

Re: KDE4.0 necessary to archlinux, now and not in 6 months

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