Just some few Arch Linux questions

molom · 2008-01-21 07:51:12

Hi, I am new to Arch Linux and am looking for some advice and answers.
Here are the questions:
1. Does the update command (I think its called pacman and it updates many things with one command in terminal) update the Arch Linux base, the DE that is installed, the apps that are installed and artwork on Arch Linux?
2. Is Arch Linux User friendly once installed (When I say user friendly, I mean something like Ubuntu)?
3. Does the drivers (Wireless card drivers, graphics card drivers, printer drivers and audio card drivers) come pre-installed once Arch Linux is installed like Ubuntu?
4. What is the stablility and speed of Arch Linux compared to Ubuntu?

That is all I need to know.

Cheers,
molom

byte · 2008-01-21 08:04:26

http://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/The_Arch_Way
http://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Arch_vs_Others
http://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Beginners_Guide

1) 'pacman -Syu' will download the newest package lists from a server, compare them to your installed pkgs, and prompt you to update everything that has an update available.
2) No.
3) Drivers are normally part of the standard Linux kernel and available as modules. They should get autodetected on startup by Udev. There are also several driver packages for stuff that's not part of the kernel, like the TrueCrypt driver, many wireless drivers and the binary drivers for ATI/NVidia cards.
4) It's Linux. Compare and rate for yourself.

molom · 2008-01-21 09:08:40

Thanks byte,
I am familar with Linux and used many distros, but when it comes to specifics or the inner parts of Linux I get quite lost.
So when you say 'pkgs', do you also mean the desktop environment as well. For example, I have E17 installed and I use the 'pacman -Syu' command, will it update the version of E17 on my PC to the current version of E17?
When you say it isn't user friendly, what aspects aren't user friendly? I know the installation isn't user friendly, but I've read some reviews that say when Arch is installed with a DE and all packages, it is quite easy to use from there.
Is there something similar to synaptic in Arch Linux?

I haven't tried Arch Linux and I'm trying to see if this distro is suitable for me, because I like this pacman manager. I'm really eager into knowing about Arch Linux.

Cheers,
molom

May-C · 2008-01-21 09:27:54

1. It updateds EVERYTHING
2. You have to be aware that a lot of things have to be configured in Configfiles. It is not too complicated and there are wikis and this forum is execellent! But it is not as user friendly as ubuntu... What can be a little bit complicated is setting up the X-Server.
3. I had no problems with driver so far but I dont use wireless. For the soundcard installing alsa should be enough (look around in the wiki). Videodrivers you can install with pacman -S <driver> and then you have to change the xorg.config.
4. Here it is fast as hell and rockstable using kde (kdemod)...

Closing Notes:
Archlinux is really worth trying it but you have to want to learn and you have to read. If you just want to install a Linux which is working out of the box you better keep using ubuntu!!!

molom · 2008-01-21 09:56:54

So is it possible to make a LiveCD using Arch Linux as its base with Codecs, drivers and a Default DE pre-installed and making user friendly apps that configure these config files to make a user friendly Arch Linux distro?
PS. You guys answer posts amazingly fast, I like this community.

Cheers,
molom

Last edited by molom (2008-01-21 09:59:50)

pressh · 2008-01-21 10:00:42

molom wrote:

So is it possible to make a LiveCD using Arch Linux as its base with Codecs, drivers and a Default DE and making user friendly apps that configure these config files to make a user friendly Arch Linux distro?
PS. You guys answer posts amazingly fast, I like this community.
Cheers,
molom

sure it is possible.
You may want to consider contributing to Archie or FaunOS

Last edited by pressh (2008-01-21 10:01:42)

molom · 2008-01-21 10:12:56

You guys are immense help
Does these Pacman updates break the system occasionally?

Cheers,
molom

pressh · 2008-01-21 10:18:37

molom wrote:

You guys are immense help
Does these Pacman updates break the system occasionally?
Cheers,
molom

Like on all distros/'operation systems' this may happen at some point. But if you don't enable [testing] by default and check the announcements/news before updating you should be pretty save.

[edit]
and don't forget to read the post-install/post-upgrade messages you get when you install/update something.

Last edited by pressh (2008-01-21 10:19:49)

jacko · 2008-01-21 10:40:40

molom wrote:

You guys are immense help
Does these Pacman updates break the system occasionally?
Cheers,
molom

u keep asking specific questions to answers already found in a couple hundred post on this site. READ the WIKI, most help u can find in one spot.

PJ · 2008-01-21 10:41:59

It's possible to make a liveCD based on Arch Linux. There are a couple of live distributions already: FaunOS, March Linux, Archie (is this still alive?), larch (this is more of a toolkit to construct your own liveCD. So far I have only tried Archie and that was at least a year ago and it was impressive at that point. I don't know how the status is when it comes to codecs and binary graphics drivers regarding March Linux, FaunOS and Archie.

This wikipage might also be usefull: http://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Building_a_Live_CD

When it comes to graphical config tool it mostly depends on if there are any upstreams. This means that it is possible to install graphical config tools when it comes to for example cups and mysql. However, Arch Linux do not at this point have any own graphical tools to configure for example: network, language and daemons that should run on boot. I have seen a few attempt to create these kind of applications but either they are only half finished or they lack a lot in user friendliness.

Almost forgot it, there are also some gui frontends for pacman. Some of these do work at this point, others don't and few of them really don't exist anymore.
http://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=14849

molom · 2008-01-21 11:53:02

@PJ
So your saying if someone makes an arch linux distro, they can pre install gnome network managers and others to make it more user friendly? I think I'm starting to understand what your saying. Arch Linux sounds like a really good OS to use as a base for a user friendly OS. Why doesn't Ubuntu have something like Pacman?

Cheers,
molom

PJ · 2008-01-21 12:20:22

molom wrote:

So your saying if someone makes an arch linux distro, they can pre install gnome network managers and others to make it more user friendly?

Yes, that is possible since Archlinux is a "meta-distribution". This does however mean that someone needs to create this user friendly distribution based on archlinux. It isn't going to appear by itself.

molom wrote:

Why doesn't Ubuntu have something like Pacman?

apt-get, aptitude and wajig are the equivalents on Ubuntu/Debian. There are some differences in syntax and features but I guess those could be compared with pacman.

dmartins · 2008-01-21 12:30:16

molom wrote:

@PJ
So your saying if someone makes an arch linux distro, they can pre install gnome network managers and others to make it more user friendly? I think I'm starting to understand what your saying. Arch Linux sounds like a really good OS to use as a base for a user friendly OS. Why doesn't Ubuntu have something like Pacman?

A basic Arch install is just the kernel and all the bits and pieces necessary to load the computer and give you a terminal to work from. There is no DE installed, X isn't even installed. You get to choose what software you want/need. So, if you want Gnome, install X, any drivers you might need - xf86-input-keyboard, xf86-input-mouse and xf86-video-vesa are a good start. Then you configure X, install Gnome, Network Manager if you want (and configure it to start at boot). Install firefox, etc.
I could go on all day, my point is you have to install what you want - afaik there is no bundled desktop install like Ubuntu starts with.
Once you have things set up the way you want, there are tools available to turn this in to a live cd.

stefan1975 · 2008-01-21 18:51:41

totally beside the point .... but are you the same molom that is on the linuxmint e17 ce forum by the way? just curious.

cheers,
stefan

toofishes · 2008-01-21 19:01:07

Regarding the LiveCD questions- Simo, Aaron and I have made some LiveCD scripts as well that use stock out of the box Arch packages. Those scripts can be found
here:
http://projects.archlinux.org/git/?p=ar … ;a=summary

If you click the snapshot link, you can get a tarball of the most recent cut of these scripts, or the GIT repo can also be cloned and you can help us improve them as we haven't had much time to work with them. Using these scripts we have made both an installer CD and a XFCE desktop LiveCD.

molom · 2008-01-21 21:29:13

stefan1975 wrote:

totally beside the point .... but are you the same molom that is on the linuxmint e17 ce forum by the way? just curious.
cheers,
stefan

Are you stalking me Stefan?
I just want to learn more about the technical side of Linux at the moment. I don't look so important without my 450 posts that I have in Linux Mint within 2 months, and these guys from Arch Linux know so much more than me so its unlikeley I'll reach such a high number of posts
And how did you know I'm the same molom from ubuntu forums and Linux Mint forums? molom isn't a very popular name Another clue is that I always say cheers at the end

Cheers,
molom

Last edited by molom (2008-01-21 21:30:13)

lilsirecho · 2008-01-21 22:58:34

FaunOS is a Live system running from flash drive of 990MB size which has all archlinux packages (500) and loads to KDE desktop(or archlinux in root) and handles all hardware and xorg installs. Only the internet params are needed to complete the setup.

It boots in 45 secs.

Check it out in Faunos forums and FaunOS.com. Arch linux is accessed from the forum with one click.

The only dual boot Live system in existence AFAIK.
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Last edited by lilsirecho (2008-01-21 23:01:08)

Rumor · 2008-01-21 23:15:41

molom wrote:

Hi, I am new to Arch Linux and am looking for some advice and answers.
Here are the questions:
1. Does the update command (I think its called pacman and it updates many things with one command in terminal) update the Arch Linux base, the DE that is installed, the apps that are installed and artwork on Arch Linux?

pacman is the package manager for Arch. It will install single package, batches of packages, update the installed packages and several other things. Yes, one command 'pacman -Syu will update all the installed packages to the most recent available in the repositories. It will not update your artwork, ut everything else will be updated if you so desire.

molom wrote:

2. Is Arch Linux User friendly once installed (When I say user friendly, I mean something like Ubuntu)?

Once you have installed the base systen, updated and then installed whatever desktop environment or window manager you want, whatever programs you want, etc., it will be as user friendly as you have made it.

molom wrote:

3. Does the drivers (Wireless card drivers, graphics card drivers, printer drivers and audio card drivers) come pre-installed once Arch Linux is installed like Ubuntu?

As others have said, the install process does a fairly good job of detecting your hardware and installing the necessary modules, but it is up to you to install drivers for your nVidia / ATI video card if you want accelerated graphics. You'll have to install your printer (generally via cups, which you must also install). You'll have to install alsa and you may have to configure your sound.

molom wrote:

4. What is the stablility and speed of Arch Linux compared to Ubuntu?

Arch is what you make it. You can have a rock solid stable system, or you can opt to be bleeding edge and risk the occasional package breaking.

molom wrote:

So when you say 'pkgs', do you also mean the desktop environment as well. For example, I have E17 installed and I use the 'pacman -Syu' command, will it update the version of E17 on my PC to the current version of E17?

A package is a piece of software. E17 is a package, or perhaps a meta package made up of a bunch of packages. alsa is a package. gnome network-manager is a package. Anything that is installed on your system is managed and updated by pacman.

molom wrote:

Is there something similar to synaptic in Arch Linux?

pacman is the Arch package manager. It does not need a gui front end, though there are a few third party front ends that have been written. I do not know if they are still active.

molom wrote:

I'm really eager into knowing about Arch Linux.
Cheers,
molom

Then I also suggest as other have, that you avail yourself of the wiki, especially the beginner's guide which answers several of the questions you've asked.

Arch Linux is what you make of it, but you have to do the making. Heck, that's 95% of the fun!

ibendiben · 2008-01-21 23:15:48

molom wrote:

@PJ
Arch Linux sounds like a really good OS to use as a base for a user friendly OS. Why doesn't Ubuntu have something like Pacman?
Cheers,
molom

Have a look at rc.conf... you'll love it

molom · 2008-01-21 23:39:46

Thanks Rumor. You were great help and also everyone else in the Arch community that helped me out were great help. I'm amazed at how fast people respond to peoples questions here, I haven't had such amazing service even at Ubuntu Forums, and Ubuntu forums are a HUGE community.

One more question, is there a way, where a software portal can be made, and when you download the file and open it, it performs a script and installs the app that the file was made for by using pacman? I'm not sure if you guys understand me, but I'm talking about something similar to the .mint files that Linux Mint use. What it does is you download a file that is like 20kb or something and when you open it it downloads the certain .deb and installs it automatically.

Heres a description of this app: 'MintInstall: A program to download software from Internet catalogs that distributes mint-files. A mint-file does not contain the software, but it contains all the information and sources to download that software.'

So is this possible to do with pacman?

Cheers,
molom

Last edited by molom (2008-01-21 23:45:00)

lilsirecho · 2008-01-21 23:59:37

That's called the AUR with PKGBUILD.....

ibendiben · 2008-01-22 00:13:35

or ABS. You can use makepkg to convert a PKGBUILD into a 'ready to install pkg.tar.gz'.
http://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Makepkg

bionnaki · 2008-01-26 13:04:43

So, if you want Gnome, install X, any drivers you might need - xf86-input-keyboard, xf86-input-mouse and xf86-video-vesa are a good start.

I was just browsing this thread...quick question.

I have never installed any drivers for my keyboard or mouse. I assumed they came with Xorg. My mouse works just fine and my keyboard as well except for having to bindkeys to various functions (volume control mostly). Would installing the keyboard driver provide better support so I dont have to bindkeys?

just curious.

Misfit138 · 2008-01-26 13:45:49

bionnaki wrote:

So, if you want Gnome, install X, any drivers you might need - xf86-input-keyboard, xf86-input-mouse and xf86-video-vesa are a good start.
I was just browsing this thread...quick question.
I have never installed any drivers for my keyboard or mouse. I assumed they came with Xorg. My mouse works just fine and my keyboard as well except for having to bindkeys to various functions (volume control mostly). Would installing the keyboard driver provide better support so I dont have to bindkeys?
just curious.

When you install the 'xorg' group package, it includes the xf86-input-keyboard and xf86-input-mouse drivers. (The fact that your keyboard and mouse work confirms this.)
These 2 drivers are pretty generic, but usually work well.

Arch Linux

#1 2008-01-21 07:51:12

Just some few Arch Linux questions

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