Arch Linux

aardwolf

Member

From: Belgium

Registered: 2005-07-23

Posts: 304

Wine and .NET and XNA

Hi,

There's something about Wine that I can't seem to get any clarity about.

.NET applications give a problem on Wine. However more and more windows developers use .NET to make their applications, too bad. And that is the only reason why I'm forced to have any interest in .NET

I managed to find out that Wine doesn't support Microsoft .NET and you have to use Mono. However Mone doesn't have enough support for .NET applications, especially XNA.

Appearantly the makers of Wine also don't want to support the official .NET, it's by design that you have to use Mono.

The offocial .NET framework, afaik, is a free download though. What's the reason why Wine doesn't support it? Is there a technical, or a legal problem? If Wine would support every Windows application in an ideal works, why not the official .NET framework? (and XNA)

Last edited by aardwolf (2008-01-25 15:13:09)

buttons

Member

From: NJ, USA

Registered: 2007-08-04

Posts: 620

Re: Wine and .NET and XNA

See this wiki post for (some) clarity on the subject.  It's a technical problem, in short.

Aside: Right this moment the page isn't loading for me, but it's the right one...I was looking into this the other day.

---

Cthulhu For President!

aardwolf

Member

From: Belgium

Registered: 2005-07-23

Posts: 304

Re: Wine and .NET and XNA

See this wiki post for (some) clarity on the subject.  It's a technical problem, in short.

Aside: Right this moment the page isn't loading for me, but it's the right one...I was looking into this the other day.

Funny, I encountered this page in google but it also didn't want to load for me, hopefully it'll answer all my questions once it works

EDIT: looked it up from google cache, and it didn't really seem to answer what the technical problem is, maybe it's a link from there?

Last edited by aardwolf (2008-01-25 16:27:25)

skottish

Forum Fellow

From: Here

Registered: 2006-06-16

Posts: 7,942

Re: Wine and .NET and XNA

Microsoft is piggybacking all of their DRM stuff like WGATray with .NET. This does two things, it forces people to register with MS, and it it allows them to upload the needed files with user permission for when DRM goes 100% active. This is how they distributed WGATray to catch the millions of people using bootlegged copies of Windows. They will soon go after Office also.

The problems that you're seeing with Mono is related to this. There was a rather lengthy discussion over at Wine about this around a year or so ago. The Wine people said that they will not enable MS DRM. There are people trying to hack it now, but it's going to be too much of a useless cat and mouse game (remember FairKeys anyone?). Mono will give .NET a good run for its money, but soon enough there won't be any way to install anything without licensing from MS.

zodmaner

Member

Registered: 2007-07-11

Posts: 653

Re: Wine and .NET and XNA

Microsoft is piggybacking all of their DRM stuff like WGATray with .NET. This does two things, it forces people to register with MS, and it it allows them to upload the needed files with user permission for when DRM goes 100% active. This is how they distributed WGATray to catch the millions of people using bootlegged copies of Windows. They will soon go after Office also.

The problems that you're seeing with Mono is related to this. There was a rather lengthy discussion over at Wine about this around a year or so ago. The Wine people said that they will not enable MS DRM. There are people trying to hack it now, but it's going to be too much of a useless cat and mouse game (remember FairKeys anyone?). Mono will give .NET a good run for its money, but soon enough there won't be any way to install anything without licensing from MS.

That sounds bad, really bad.

So this means Wine won't be able to run new Windows software that use .NET?

Last edited by zodmaner (2008-01-26 06:55:29)

skottish

Forum Fellow

From: Here

Registered: 2006-06-16

Posts: 7,942

Re: Wine and .NET and XNA

That sounds bad, really bad.

So this means Wine won't be able to run new Windows software that use .NET?

Yes, it does. Look at the bigger picture though. MS knows this. This is why they have become a primarily gaming/multimedia company. Linux surpassed Windows a while ago in the desktop usability area. Sure, the 'this is the only thing I know' factor is huge. Outside of games though, what can Windows provide that Linux cannot? Vendor lock-in of course. That's fading too.

[For clarity, I work with Office 2007 regularly]

The most recent financial reports from MS say that gaming and 'business adoption' of Office products is what drove the market. 'Business adoption?' Huh?

MS once again tried to break compatibility older Office products. They gambled that if old version of Office couldn't read newer Office files that mostly everyone would have to upgrade. Repetitions of old patterns. This time they failed, more or less. Almost everyone here realizes that most users have little idea, or need to know,  what Office is capable of. XML or not, Office looks different more than it adds anything for the day-to-day user. Of course the reactionary tendencies of the greedy won't bother to investigate whether or not their software can be configured to read the new format... Hundreds of thousands, if not millions, if not billions of dollars a year to license software that's far more powerful than most people will ever know. That's dieing too.

For the former point, people like MS games. I don't play games, so I don't know. I'm guessing that they're pretty awesome considering that they generated huge amounts of money this last fiscal year.

Last edited by skottish (2008-01-26 07:32:02)

aardwolf

Member

From: Belgium

Registered: 2005-07-23

Posts: 304

Re: Wine and .NET and XNA

I can understand the decision of Wine to not want to include DRM.

If most Windows software will require it in the future, I do hope that a fork of Wine will appear that will support it though. I hate DRM, but sometimes even a Linux user will be forced to have to use it to communicate in a world where more than 95% of the users uses the Windows with its DRM.

If Wine won't be able to do that, users will be forced to use the Windows itself for DRM again. Is that better than Wine-with-DRM then? I think not.

Vendor lock-in of course. That's fading too.

I see signs that Windows Vista isn't as popular in the market as hoped, but no other signs at all that it's fading. Could you give examples of why it's fading? I like seeing good news .

zodmaner

Member

Registered: 2007-07-11

Posts: 653

Re: Wine and .NET and XNA

If Wine won't be able to do that, users will be forced to use the Windows itself for DRM again. Is that better than Wine-with-DRM then? I think not.

Another possible solution is virtualisation. If the worse come to worse then I think running Windows software on a virtual machine is an 'acceptable' solution (not the best of course).

Last edited by zodmaner (2008-01-26 11:26:07)