A big choice

Xs1t0ry · 2008-02-05 00:57:55

Hi.

I'll condense the preamble; the Canadian government is going to pay me 60k and pay for my university education in exchange for working for the Department of National Defence. Sweet. Now the hard part: CS or CE.

Obviously to have gotten this opportunity, I know a bit about what I'm doing. Sufficed to say, the lines get blurred for me around post-grad: I need your seasoned advice and input on the nature of jobs in the computing industry, as volatile as it is.

Basically my situation breaks down like this: Pursue a CS degree to the Doctoral level, or pursue a CE bachelor's and then SE to Doctoral. I know there is currently much contention over the true nature of Software Engineering (SE), and what exactly constitutes a SE. That aside, I feel it would be far more beneficial to learn about what exactly the education consists of, as that should give at least an able description of what SE's do, rather than assign contested titles. That's where you lovely people come in!

I know a lot of you are involved in the computer industry--working, studying or just enthusiasts. I want to innovate and create new things: languages, techniques, systems. I want a job that really gives me a feeling of control over what computing means and to not only maximize my usage of technology but extend it. To solve problems. Perhaps most influentially, I want to do something with a lot of application and not too much hardware stuff. This makes me think SE, but then I also want to create new things--big things--and I usually attach a code-monkey-like label to Software Engineering. So that makes me think CS for the innovation and 'trailblazing.' Plus CS is basically all software anyways.

To be honest, I'm not sure what I should be doing to be suit my interests, so could you please tell me a bit about where each field leads and what the difficulty, pros, cons, etc. are?

Thanks in advance!

-Eric

Cerebral · 2008-02-05 02:15:28

Hm.. I can't say much about soft-eng, except that for me it was far too rigorous and structured. In my opinion, if you want to break new ground and innovate, I'd suggest computer science - it's a much broader scope and not tacked down by the structure and "rules" of the soft-eng, so to speak. I see the engineering side as more of the discipline to the field, where CS is the sciency-stuff - research, development, ground-breaking kinda stuff.

I got my Bachelor in Math, CS from the university of waterloo - great program there, btw. Don't know how good the post-grad program is tho, since I'm happy with just my Bachelor's.

Xs1t0ry · 2008-02-05 02:34:34

Thanks for the reply. As far as CS goes, you can still find work as a programmer pretty much anywhere with that degree, right?

Dusty · 2008-02-05 02:38:27

At York, the grad level CSE (Comp Scie & Eng) program was in some ways (I'm over simplifying) basically one program, and the distinction was mostly in your specialization. Engineering students could take CS courses and vice versa, if desired.

I've always considered CE to be more hardware oriented and CS to be software oriented. At York, for example, the 'Software Engineering' discipline is actually part of the CS program. So given your interest, I would suggest computer science with an emphasis in software engineering.

How much education do you have so far? Grad school is completely different from an undergraduate degree. Its not about education any more, its about research. You have a lot of flexibility in what you research, but it has to be new and unpublished and unproven. For a doctoral degree it also has to be successful (for a given definition of success). In reality, it doesn't really matter *what* you're studying anymore, but how you study it. The research skills you gain you will learn just as well in a CS degree or a CE degree. I think the important thing is to choose a topic you can stay interested in for four years.

In the end, I believe that software development is neither science nor engineering: its an art.

Dusty

Xs1t0ry · 2008-02-05 03:39:09

Thanks. I agree with you and believe it's probably like that at a lot of Universities. I guess I'm leaning towards CS because I'd like to do a lot of Cryptography (CrySP) and some systems management stuff.

cactus · 2008-02-05 03:48:19

Do CS and *heavy* on the math.

I wouldn't recommend getting a doctorate unless you want to teach though.

Xs1t0ry · 2008-02-05 03:58:35

Thanks. Is a minor considered heavy? I'm going for an Honours CS so that is most of my electives eaten up right there (and includes math). And I do want to teach/do research

cactus · 2008-02-05 04:10:39

well if you do want to teach and research, then you do want a doctorate.

The best advice for a doctorate degree that I ever ran across was.. find a professor that you really like, and who works on the kind of things you want to work on, and get them to be your academic advisor.
They, probably better than most, can tell you what would be good to take, and what they wished they had taken to help get them where they are.

Xs1t0ry · 2008-02-05 04:53:59

Thanks

peets · 2008-02-05 04:56:08

I completed two years in an engineering physics course, started the third, then quit. I'm starting an architectural design course this upcoming fall.

I thought I knew where I was going when I started university. In the last year, I "grew up" a lot, and realized I wasn't in the right place. My confidence for my current choice is much more grounded (although only time will tell how that will end up!)

If you're like me when I started university, planning from bac to doc is not the best idea if it involves closing a lot of doors. If you're more mature than I was and already sufficiently grown up and confident, then I also suggest CS rather than SE. If your engineering school is anything like mine, the "engineering" portions of the course will feel tacked-on and not relevant. You may learn some important lessons in engineering (I have!) but those can be learned in many other places also. CS looks more fun; and the more math you can get, the funner (it's worth the effort!)

jb · 2008-02-05 05:05:54

Yeah, as a CE grad student, I'd have to agree with everyone that your goals would be best met with the CS route; especially going into cryptography. If you wanted to implement a cryptography method (preferably one that's already defined ) at the gate level, then a CE degree would be more appropriate.

Cerebral · 2008-02-05 12:40:58

Xs1t0ry wrote:

Thanks for the reply. As far as CS goes, you can still find work as a programmer pretty much anywhere with that degree, right?

Yup - I'm doing programming here in Waterloo with my spiffy CS degree.

Arch Linux

#1 2008-02-05 00:57:55

A big choice

#2 2008-02-05 02:15:28

Re: A big choice

#3 2008-02-05 02:34:34

Re: A big choice

#4 2008-02-05 02:38:27

Re: A big choice

#5 2008-02-05 03:39:09

Re: A big choice

#6 2008-02-05 03:48:19

Re: A big choice

#7 2008-02-05 03:58:35

Re: A big choice

#8 2008-02-05 04:10:39

Re: A big choice

#9 2008-02-05 04:53:59

Re: A big choice

#10 2008-02-05 04:56:08

Re: A big choice

#11 2008-02-05 05:05:54

Re: A big choice

#12 2008-02-05 12:40:58

Re: A big choice

Board footer