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#1 2008-02-07 09:17:44

godane
Member
From: NH, USA
Registered: 2008-02-03
Posts: 241
Website

arch-live beta 1 released

Hey, this is godane.

Me and Tatzi came up with some scripts for a zenwalk live distro we were making. Tatzi did most of the scripting where i add alot of the stuff from zenwalk's build scripts to his build scripts to it make neater. Tatzi told me about MeoW linux live cd he made a while back and that it was base on arch linux.

I decide one day to try to make are build scripts work for arch linux. I needed to know if it was possible to make a modular live cd/usb system like slax/zenlive with arch linux. I found out it was hard at first because i didn't know much about the pacman system you guys made.

Anyway i figure out how to use it. For my modules i use a file with a list of package that will be installed in a aufs union. When one module is completed it will change the read-write folder then go on to the next package list for the next module. Its done this way so you have control of what package goes where. This is not like archie or faunOS or even MeoW linux. This a true modular system like slax or zenlive. This has not been done for arch linux yet.

I know you would say faunOS is a modular live system. No its not. Its just a mirror of a hard drive using linux-live scripts. I say this cause parts of a package is in all modules. You can't really take out a package with out having to change the whole system.

here are my goals:
1. To make a modular live cd/usb system like zenlive for arch linux.
2. To make it easier to make update modules for the system to stay up to date.
3. To make a desktop like zenwalk with xfce for default desktop.

Here is a link to may project page for now:
http://sourceforge.net/projects/chrisx/

NOTE: I know the project page says chrisx. I don't have the arch-live page yet. This is just for now.

The iso is update to 20060206 core+extra+community.

Here are some of the module scripts:
update2lzm name: This is to copy the current /var/lib/pacman/local and to do a pacman -Syu in a tmp folder.
arch2lzm package_name:     Copy's the current /varlib/pacman/local and makes a package with deps.

You can also make modules from folders in thunar by right-clicking and click on the build module option.

I hope this helps. big_smile

EDIT:
user: root
pass: ZenLive

sorry i forgot about it.

Last edited by godane (2008-02-07 09:20:38)


I'm working on a live cds based on Archlinux. http://godane.wordpress.com/

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#2 2008-02-07 10:00:08

ibendiben
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Registered: 2007-10-10
Posts: 519
Website

Re: arch-live beta 1 released

godane wrote:

The iso is update to 20060206 core+extra+community.

Any more info on that? I'd like to know the package versions.

This is not like archie or faunOS or even MeoW linux. This a true modular system like slax or zenlive. This has not been done for arch linux yet.
I know you would say faunOS is a modular live system. No its not. Its just a mirror of a hard drive using linux-live scripts. I say this cause parts of a package is in all modules. You can't really take out a package with out having to change the whole system.

I'd still say, go talk with the faunOS developer, maybe you could work together.
Keep up your work! I think many people are interested in such live-projects for archlinux.  Just a small thingy: with most people liking the rolling release/ bleeding edge system, it seems best to keep it as up-to-date as possible, if your current beta-release is from 2006 I for example, won't be able to give it a try, having a very new hardware configuration.

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#3 2008-02-07 10:13:36

tomk
Forum Fellow
From: Ireland
Registered: 2004-07-21
Posts: 9,838

Re: arch-live beta 1 released

I'll bet €1000000 that it's a typo - should be 20080206, right godane? smile

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#4 2008-02-07 11:02:55

ibendiben
Member
Registered: 2007-10-10
Posts: 519
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Re: arch-live beta 1 released

Bet not taken wink

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#5 2008-02-07 11:28:02

finferflu
Forum Fellow
From: Manchester, UK
Registered: 2007-06-21
Posts: 1,899
Website

Re: arch-live beta 1 released

This is pretty interesting, actually, quite a lot big_smile


Have you Syued today?
Free music for free people! | Earthlings

"Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away." -- A. de Saint-Exupery

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#6 2008-02-07 13:29:23

ibendiben
Member
Registered: 2007-10-10
Posts: 519
Website

Re: arch-live beta 1 released

Good work man!
typing from it now cool
btw:
bash-3.2# pacman -Q | grep 'kernel'
kernel-headers 2.6.23.1-2

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#7 2008-02-07 15:50:23

Sigi
Member
From: Thurgau, Switzerland
Registered: 2005-09-22
Posts: 1,121

Re: arch-live beta 1 released

Welcome to the forum godane. You should really have a look at larch, faunOS etc! Search the forum for it (Or follow the larch link in my sig) gradgrind has done great work in creating those scripts...


Dammit, haven't been here in a while. Still rocking Arch. smile

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#8 2008-02-07 16:46:44

venky80
Member
Registered: 2007-05-13
Posts: 996

Re: arch-live beta 1 released

yes I like these projects to get some foothold,  have been looking for something like this for a long time


DELL XPS 1640 with ATI Mobility Radeon  HD 3670. Arch Linux KDE Minimal Install

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#9 2008-02-07 17:30:31

raymano
Member
Registered: 2006-10-13
Posts: 357
Website

Re: arch-live beta 1 released

godane wrote:

Hey, this is godane.

Me and Tatzi came up with some scripts for a zenwalk live distro we were making. Tatzi did most of the scripting where i add alot of the stuff from zenwalk's build scripts to his build scripts to it make neater. Tatzi told me about MeoW linux live cd he made a while back and that it was base on arch linux.

I decide one day to try to make are build scripts work for arch linux. I needed to know if it was possible to make a modular live cd/usb system like slax/zenlive with arch linux. I found out it was hard at first because i didn't know much about the pacman system you guys made.

Anyway i figure out how to use it. For my modules i use a file with a list of package that will be installed in a aufs union. When one module is completed it will change the read-write folder then go on to the next package list for the next module. Its done this way so you have control of what package goes where. This is not like archie or faunOS or even MeoW linux. This a true modular system like slax or zenlive. This has not been done for arch linux yet.

I know you would say faunOS is a modular live system. No its not. Its just a mirror of a hard drive using linux-live scripts. I say this cause parts of a package is in all modules. You can't really take out a package with out having to change the whole system.

here are my goals:
1. To make a modular live cd/usb system like zenlive for arch linux.
2. To make it easier to make update modules for the system to stay up to date.
3. To make a desktop like zenwalk with xfce for default desktop.

Here is a link to may project page for now:
http://sourceforge.net/projects/chrisx/

NOTE: I know the project page says chrisx. I don't have the arch-live page yet. This is just for now.

The iso is update to 20060206 core+extra+community.

Here are some of the module scripts:
update2lzm name: This is to copy the current /var/lib/pacman/local and to do a pacman -Syu in a tmp folder.
arch2lzm package_name:     Copy's the current /varlib/pacman/local and makes a package with deps.

You can also make modules from folders in thunar by right-clicking and click on the build module option.

I hope this helps. big_smile

EDIT:
user: root
pass: ZenLive

sorry i forgot about it.

Hi godane,

Glad to see you working on this. The more live distros the better smile

I am trying to figure out what exactly you mean by "modular". Do you mean something like morphix, where the OS is comprised of a set of modules, like a module for scientific apps, a module for X apps, etc?

Here are some points:
- You can uninstall any package you like in FaunOS and save your session at reboot/shutdown and that package is gone. This is done normally through pacman.

- FaunOS is a lot more than just a mirror of a hard drive with linux live scripts. We actually use larch to produce FaunOS not linux live scripts. There is the session saving feature of larch that we use which I think you have missed. Session saving allows you to save changes back to the boot device as overlays that are unioned with previous images. Also this allows us to have not write back anything to the USB at runtime, elongating the life of the USB drive. You only write once, if you chose to save your session to you boot device.

I am currently downloading your system.

I will let you know my thoughts.

Thanks and keep up the good work,
Raymano


FaunOS: Live USB/DVD Linux Distro: http://www.faunos.com

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#10 2008-02-07 18:06:23

godane
Member
From: NH, USA
Registered: 2008-02-03
Posts: 241
Website

Re: arch-live beta 1 released

First this is a 20080206 core+extra+community release. Sorry about the date but i was tired last night at 4 am. wink

The reason I'm using linux-live scripts is cause its the only live cd scripts i understand. 2nd I don't want to have make a big squashfs file every time in order to change little things.

I'm downloading faunOS again cause i have not used it in a long time. Plus this may have been 02b release anyway. I will see what larch and faunOS can do for me.

I hope this helps.

EDIT:
I just was looking at larch and its not my cup of tea.

1. larch uses unionfs.

Unionfs was used in slax 5. slax 6 uses aufs which is much more stable. Arch-live uses aufs with a custom kernel that i made for zenlite.

2. larch uses just squashfs.

Arch live uses squashfs+lzma. This allow us 30% more space.

3. I have custom boot options that slax or zenlive has.

here are my boot option:

baseonly: Baseonly boot option is so you can just load the base folder and not the modules folder.

norootcopy: Norootcopy boot option is so you bypass mistakes you made in files that are in rootcopy folder.

modpath: This one is special. Modpath will allow you mount bind a folder from another device then do a search for modules on it. Its binded to arch-live/tmp so it will overlap all the module include the optional ones.

cdname: Cdname will allow you to have more the one data folder then the normal linux-live. Its like having all the slax editions on 1 cd. (ex slax popcorn will have data folder named popcorn. You just add cdname=popcorn to the slax popcorn boot menu. ) The idea is one kernel, one initrd, live multi-distro cd/usb system.

I hope you now understand what I'm doing now.

Last edited by godane (2008-02-07 19:04:20)


I'm working on a live cds based on Archlinux. http://godane.wordpress.com/

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#11 2008-02-07 19:07:57

raymano
Member
Registered: 2006-10-13
Posts: 357
Website

Re: arch-live beta 1 released

I tried your distro. I like the modules that you have created. We are talking about two different sets of users here. FaunOS is geared towards non-techies. People that haven't even is heard of Linux let alone care about how the system is organized. They just know how to boot a CD or a USB key and they're off to the races. That is who we develop FaunOS for. Not the average archlinux user for sure.

Archlinux users tend to be more hands on. FaunOS is by design a hands-off kind of a system with USB in mind from the get go. What Ubuntu is to Debian, FaunOS is to Arch. We might not be there quite yet. But that is what we hope to accomplish.

So I wish you best of luck with your live distro. I like the modular approach that you have taken. You might want to take a look at morphix. Very similar idea for building live systems. 

By the way in FaunOS session saving time is relevant to the amount of changes you make. The less changes you make the less time it takes to save your session (done automatically by FaunOS).

I would wait a few days to get the latest version of FaunOS-0.5.2-shadow-rc2 if I were you.

Regards,
Raymano


FaunOS: Live USB/DVD Linux Distro: http://www.faunos.com

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#12 2008-02-07 19:12:45

raymano
Member
Registered: 2006-10-13
Posts: 357
Website

Re: arch-live beta 1 released

> 1. larch uses unionfs:

Larch and FaunOS use aufs. You are probably reading outdated documentation.

> 2. larch uses just squashfs:

This is available in larch5. Everthing has its price. Higher compression rate with squashfs lzma leads to a slower system. We have tried it out.


FaunOS: Live USB/DVD Linux Distro: http://www.faunos.com

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#13 2008-02-07 19:44:15

godane
Member
From: NH, USA
Registered: 2008-02-03
Posts: 241
Website

Re: arch-live beta 1 released

raymano wrote:

> 1. larch uses unionfs:

Larch and FaunOS use aufs. You are probably reading outdated documentation.

> 2. larch uses just squashfs:

This is available in larch5. Everthing has its price. Higher compression rate with squashfs lzma leads to a slower system. We have tried it out.

1. Thank you for telling me this. I was not sure cause unionfs is in the arch kernel by default.

2. Squashfs+lzma can do support both normal squashfs and the lzma one. 2nd. I have decide to use lzma cause I don't notice the speed different. I also don't want compatible issues with what squashfs i can use and what i can't use.

I also plan on making this more module then it is now. But time will tell how it goes.

I hope this helps.


I'm working on a live cds based on Archlinux. http://godane.wordpress.com/

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#14 2008-02-07 20:48:18

xsdnyd
Member
Registered: 2007-04-28
Posts: 110

Re: arch-live beta 1 released

works nicely,
however i was not being able to bring up the wireless device (iwl3945).
i modprobed the iwl3945 module and it was loaded but there was no wireless network interface i could bring up or something...

anyway good work! smile


We can't stop here! This is bat country!!

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#15 2008-02-07 21:15:45

godane
Member
From: NH, USA
Registered: 2008-02-03
Posts: 241
Website

Re: arch-live beta 1 released

sorry. This is my fault.

I did not add any of the firmware to arch-live yet. They will be there in the next release.


I'm working on a live cds based on Archlinux. http://godane.wordpress.com/

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#16 2008-02-08 00:25:10

venky80
Member
Registered: 2007-05-13
Posts: 996

Re: arch-live beta 1 released

godane ,
Is there any more information on the "modular"  installation philosophy? I am interested to read more about it.
Thanks


DELL XPS 1640 with ATI Mobility Radeon  HD 3670. Arch Linux KDE Minimal Install

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#17 2008-02-08 00:47:28

godane
Member
From: NH, USA
Registered: 2008-02-03
Posts: 241
Website

Re: arch-live beta 1 released

You can go here:
http://slax.hosting4p.com/

Here is his blog too:
http://blog.slax.org/

I hope this helps.


I'm working on a live cds based on Archlinux. http://godane.wordpress.com/

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#18 2008-02-08 06:23:31

gradgrind
Member
From: Germany
Registered: 2005-10-06
Posts: 921

Re: arch-live beta 1 released

Yes, indeed - interesting project godane, keep at it!

A couple of additional infos about larch:

Another reason for not using squashfs+lzma for me is simply that it is not in Arch - I have always aimed to use as much as possible from the standard repos and as little additional stuff as possible (to make it easier to build larch systems). larch is designed to work with the standard Arch kernel.

larch-5 offers an additional level of session saving which is well suited to handling small changes quickly.

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#19 2008-02-08 16:16:21

venky80
Member
Registered: 2007-05-13
Posts: 996

Re: arch-live beta 1 released

oh so is it a live cd only distro....hmm I think I assumed it can be installed to a hard disk
can it be installed to a hard disk?
Are there any disadvantages to it if it is being used from HDD?


DELL XPS 1640 with ATI Mobility Radeon  HD 3670. Arch Linux KDE Minimal Install

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#20 2008-02-09 07:08:06

godane
Member
From: NH, USA
Registered: 2008-02-03
Posts: 241
Website

Re: arch-live beta 1 released

@ venky80

There is now real disadvantaged with the a live cd on the hard drive. It will be faster to boot. With arch-live you can do a changes=folder boot command which will save your changes that are in /mnt/live/memory/changes folder.

If you have grub setup on your hard drive you can copy and paste the isolinux file in the boot folder of arch-live.

@ gradgrind

I have a patch that could be added to the arch kernel. Its in a module through.

http://users.zenwalk.org/user-accounts/ … 4-live.lzm

add this to arch live and go to /usr/src/linux-2.6.24-live/patches. There is file called sqlzma3.3.patch. This patch will allow you to build sqlzma3.3 in the kernel has a module. The good news is even if you make a squashfs+lzma module it will not  cause incompatible with the arch kernel. Best for you to test this theory of mine.

@ raymano

The live cd i was thinking of was frugalware live cd. Frugalware uses linux-live and makes folders off the hard driver into modules. (ex. usr folder is a module) But faunOS still seem to be a hard drive squashfs file to me. The rest is just the comfigs. I plan on making programs and libs has separate modules.  This is outside of the desktop of course.

I hope this helps everyone.


I'm working on a live cds based on Archlinux. http://godane.wordpress.com/

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#21 2008-02-10 22:44:55

venky80
Member
Registered: 2007-05-13
Posts: 996

Re: arch-live beta 1 released

gode I have seen your postings in SLAX forums , I really like the idea of it, but Iam not sure where I can get prebuilt modules, I could not get any for slax 6 r7
Arch + slax  would be killer, Please keep this project alive


DELL XPS 1640 with ATI Mobility Radeon  HD 3670. Arch Linux KDE Minimal Install

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#22 2008-02-10 22:59:04

venky80
Member
Registered: 2007-05-13
Posts: 996

Re: arch-live beta 1 released

Also my X doesnt seem to work it says cannot load module synaptic and also says no driver found for vesa, I am using Virtualbox for installation


DELL XPS 1640 with ATI Mobility Radeon  HD 3670. Arch Linux KDE Minimal Install

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#23 2008-02-10 23:29:25

venky80
Member
Registered: 2007-05-13
Posts: 996

Re: arch-live beta 1 released

godane I was able to get the x working after i did a pacman install, also I do not want xfce, but i would like it to be more slax like I mean KDE or maybe KDE mod, could you please give a brief tutorial as to how to make modules and how to add them and how to remove your xfce modules, I am guessing your core module is just the basic arch core install, so I would lie to start from that and add KDE mod and whatever I want in packages
Another this which I want to how to update the modules after getting the packages updated to latest and greatest using pacman -Syu?
you can reach me at jabber id venky80


DELL XPS 1640 with ATI Mobility Radeon  HD 3670. Arch Linux KDE Minimal Install

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#24 2008-02-11 14:42:40

newcar
Member
From: Brasil
Registered: 2008-01-10
Posts: 33

Re: arch-live beta 1 released

I tried on Virtualbox and also couldnt get X to start, latter ill try to edit xorg.conf myself...

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#25 2008-02-11 15:29:47

Sigi
Member
From: Thurgau, Switzerland
Registered: 2005-09-22
Posts: 1,121

Re: arch-live beta 1 released

I finally had time to try out arch-live beta 1. I think your modular approach is quite cool, although I don't see the advantage over the larch way yet. I know that you try to not use a big squashfs system.sqf. But is it such a big deal?

edit: This thoughts are just initial thoughts. I didn't really try arch-live out yet because I forgot to look up the username and password and didn't have another PC around. And it was 2 a.m. smile

Last edited by Sigi (2008-02-11 15:31:33)


Dammit, haven't been here in a while. Still rocking Arch. smile

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