Suse's Zypper Interface

SpookyET · 2008-02-29 03:19:17

In Suse 10.3, they have a new rpm tool called Zypper.

I find the interface very ergonomic and easy to use, and I find the output very readable compared to pacman, especially the table output. It's similar to GUI/ncurses tools like Synaptic/Aptitude.

zypper install <packagename> is easier to remember than pacman -S <pachagename>.

There have been complaints about the pacman switches. Yes, they are pretty unusual, and I have got used to them. Nontheless, they make no sense.

For those that whine that the word 'install' has 7 letters while '-S' has 2 characters, I have one question, "how often do you install packages?"

I am not saying that pacman should be changed. Most distributions have more than one interface to the package database. An interface like zypper's should be investigated. Let the market (users) declare who will win.

bender02 · 2008-02-29 03:34:19

While I'm not trying to say that this issue in particular isn't worth thinking about, I personally don't like "let the users decide" attitude. There's a great danger in these sort of things. "Users" often don't do "educated" decisions. Look at politics. Why half the nation votes for an &%*@? (And I don't mean USA now.) What I most enjoyed in arch is actually pretty small dev base which makes pretty good decisions (in my opinion).

Anyway, yes, I think "install" would be better for new users than "-S".

SpookyET · 2008-02-29 04:02:02

bender02 wrote:

While I'm not trying to say that this issue in particular isn't worth thinking about, I personally don't like "let the users decide" attitude. There's a great danger in these sort of things. "Users" often don't do "educated" decisions. Look at politics. Why half the nation votes for an &%*@? (And I don't mean USA now.) What I most enjoyed in arch is actually pretty small dev base which makes pretty good decisions (in my opinion).
Anyway, yes, I think "install" would be better for new users than "-S".

Politics tend to be irrational. Markets besides religion and politics are rational.

BC · 2008-02-29 04:42:32

You're comparing long options (which are usually easier to understand) to short options. The zypper equivalent of "pacman -S " isn't "zypper install", it's "zypper in".

EDIT: Now that I look at the long options, I'd agree that "zypper install" is more obvious than "pacman --sync". However, take a look at how you'd do a system upgrade (using short options). In Arch, it's "pacman -Syu". In SUSE, it's "zypper ref && zypper up -t package". It's two commands because you can't update the repos and install packages in one step. In addition, the update command requires an extra argument because the default upgrade doesn't select all packages.

Last edited by BC (2008-02-29 04:59:53)

Sigi · 2008-02-29 05:03:06

SpookyET wrote:

zypper install <packagename> is easier to remember than pacman -S <pachagename>.

Then just go on and create an alias...

tomk · 2008-02-29 07:22:32

Could I suggest two small changes to your last line? Instead of:

SpookyET wrote:

An interface like zypper's should be investigated. Let the market (users) declare who will win.

you could say

SpookyET wrote:

An interface like zypper's should be investigated, and I'm going to start the investigation. Let the market (users) choose the interface that they want to use.

tlaloc · 2008-02-29 08:18:37

Good catch.

Anyway, I think that pacman's options are plain enough - S(sync), R(remove), Q(query), and so on ...
Even as new user, I would not break down under the intellectual work-load, right?

finferflu · 2008-02-29 08:48:15

I agree that more explicit commands are easier, perhaps even "KISSer", but in the long run those short commands just make life easier. I wouldn't really love to write the full thing every time. Also, it doesn't take that long to learn that S stands for "sync", that is "install", R for "remove" and Q for "query". The only non-obvious thing is that "sync" means "install", perhaps it's the only thing to change (i - small caps because I can be confused with L - instead of S), if it causes problems...

zenlord · 2008-02-29 10:06:12

Working with aptitude at the office, and I agree that the daily 'pacman -Syu' is much simpler than 'aptitude update && aptitude upgrade'. In both cases an alias could make it easy for everyone - heck, I could work with 'aptitude update && aptitude upgrade' in Arch if I would prefer this...

Zl.

Bestiapeluda · 2008-02-29 17:59:09

I used Suse (8 -> 10.3) before Arch, and I assure you Pacman is 10 times faster. In fact hearing about zypper gives me a headache.

JaDa · 2008-02-29 18:41:27

If you like "Zypper", join AUR and build it or ask someone to build it

SpookyET · 2008-02-29 19:24:45

Bestiapeluda wrote:

I used Suse (8 -> 10.3) before Arch, and I assure you Pacman is 10 times faster. In fact hearing about zypper gives me a headache.

You are confusing the tool with the interface. I have said that I like its interface and its output. I hate to use RPM and every RPM distro. Though RPM is just a file format like deb. Some distros use it with apt.

I like zypper's switches and its table output. I think its more readable. That is it.

Last edited by SpookyET (2008-02-29 19:25:32)

Bestiapeluda · 2008-02-29 19:48:46

ok , my mistake

Arch Linux

#1 2008-02-29 03:19:17

Suse's Zypper Interface

#2 2008-02-29 03:34:19

Re: Suse's Zypper Interface

#3 2008-02-29 04:02:02

Re: Suse's Zypper Interface

#4 2008-02-29 04:42:32

Re: Suse's Zypper Interface

#5 2008-02-29 05:03:06

Re: Suse's Zypper Interface

#6 2008-02-29 07:22:32

Re: Suse's Zypper Interface

#7 2008-02-29 08:18:37

Re: Suse's Zypper Interface

#8 2008-02-29 08:48:15

Re: Suse's Zypper Interface

#9 2008-02-29 10:06:12

Re: Suse's Zypper Interface

#10 2008-02-29 17:59:09

Re: Suse's Zypper Interface

#11 2008-02-29 18:41:27

Re: Suse's Zypper Interface

#12 2008-02-29 19:24:45

Re: Suse's Zypper Interface

#13 2008-02-29 19:48:46

Re: Suse's Zypper Interface

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