Looking for a sound card that works well under Arch

Thoht · 2008-03-21 23:29:25

Hey there!

I haven't got a sound card at the moment, but would like to buy one to get a digital output in order to connect the PC to a Denon surround reciever. Anyone who could recommend a specific card or two that is confirmed to work and not outrageously expensive?

Thanks in advance!

fwojciec · 2008-03-21 23:40:39

Chaintech AV710 is about as cheap as they get (circa $25-30) and works perfectly as a digital out in Linux.

Roberth · 2008-03-21 23:51:02

http://asus.com/products.aspx?modelmenu … &l3=0&l4=0

May this be what you are looking for? Works great with kernel 2.6.25rc and newer, Arch has kernel 2.6.25rc5 in unstable works great for me.

fwojciec · 2008-03-22 00:10:12

Just a general note, if all you need is digital output *don't* buy an expensive card -- all digital outputs are, essentially, the same (as long as they don't force-oversample to 48KHz like some mobo-integrated chips with digital out or USB soundcards do).

If you do plan on using the analogue output and you will be hooking this output into a high quality stereo, and particularly if you're thinking of using your computer to record audio, then go for a high-end audio card.

Thoht · 2008-03-22 00:20:10

Thanks for the quick replies!

I'll be using the digital output in order to connect it to the Denon surround reciever which will in it's turn pass it on to a pair of Dynavoice speakers, and that's pretty much it. It's a cheap... or well... more computer based solution for a stereo since I have all my music on the PC nowadays. A bit offtopic, I'll be connecting the PC to an LCD TV as well to watch movies when I have visitors. Feedback regarding this "solution" is most welcome!

I checked up the Chaintech AV-710, sadly they don't sell it here in Sweden and the shipping costs for import are equal to that of the card itself. The Asus card looks alright, but a bit expensive. :S

The card I had been looking at was the Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Xtreme (especially PCI-E) for about the same price as the Chaintech one, but I've gathered the driver for the X-Fi series have been delayed and ain't a safe bet.

Echo · 2008-03-22 01:23:45

My understanding is that the Creative SoundBlaster cards resample everything to 48k. The X-Fi Xtreme Audio does 48k (for audio in TV, etc.) out very well, bitperfect. But, the music 44.1 will be resampled to 48k. The music sounds pretty good on this card via digital out even if it's resampled.

I just bought a M-Audio Revolution 5.1 audio card which I'll install in the next day or two. I think this should do what I want out of a sound card from what I've been able to research.

As far as your PC to LCD TV goes I'd try a hook up DVI to HDMI if you can. As far as software goes I'd go with MythTV. Hauppauge PVR-150 for SDTV or Airstar HD5000, KWorld ATSC110 for HDTV tuners just to name a couple.

Just some ideas.

Last edited by Echo (2008-03-22 01:26:52)

Thoht · 2008-03-22 05:21:04

Echo wrote:

My understanding is that the Creative SoundBlaster cards resample everything to 48k. The X-Fi Xtreme Audio does 48k (for audio in TV, etc.) out very well, bitperfect. But, the music 44.1 will be resampled to 48k. The music sounds pretty good on this card via digital out even if it's resampled.

Would it be a good idea to buy one of these cards anyway? I've heard that some Ubuntu users have been succesful in getting it to work, but that might just be a rumour. Windows users claim that it's a great card.

Echo wrote:

I just bought a M-Audio Revolution 5.1 audio card which I'll install in the next day or two. I think this should do what I want out of a sound card from what I've been able to research.

I'll have a look at those.

Echo wrote:

As far as your PC to LCD TV goes I'd try a hook up DVI to HDMI if you can. As far as software goes I'd go with MythTV. Hauppauge PVR-150 for SDTV or Airstar HD5000, KWorld ATSC110 for HDTV tuners just to name a couple.
Just some ideas.

Thanks, yeah I'll be using a DVI->HDMI cable/converter. My thought was just to use it when watching movies, so just plugging it in and running mplayer, VLC or something in fullscreen should do the trick, right? Just like plugging in an extra monitor (although I've never done that on the PC before, it's only got one outgoing as of now, buying a GeForce 8800GT to replace the internal).

brebs · 2008-03-22 05:36:04

Echo wrote:

M-Audio Revolution 5.1 audio card

Then you'll want to see this config

Forget the X-fi for a year or two, until/if/when it has *decent* Linux drivers. The Audigy 4 works.

Echo · 2008-03-22 05:40:47

Thoht wrote:

Would it be a good idea to buy one of these cards anyway? I've heard that some Ubuntu users have been succesful in getting it to work, but that might just be a rumour. Windows users claim that it's a great card.
My thought was just to use it when watching movies, so just plugging it in and running mplayer, VLC or something in fullscreen should do the trick, right? Just like plugging in an extra monitor (although I've never done that on the PC before, it's only got one outgoing as of now, buying a GeForce 8800GT to replace the internal).

I think you would be satisfied with the X-Fi Xtreme Audio PCI card. I'm using it at the moment but am "planning" on replacing it w/M-Audio Revolution 5.1. The reason for the replacement is I'm obsessing a little atm. The soudn of the Xtreme Audio, imo, is very good. I'm just shooting for bitperfect on both 48k and 44.1k audio and "I think" the Revolution 5.1 can do that. These comments are made w/digital out in mind just like you mentioned. I can post back when I get the M-Audio card installed if you want w/thoughts on how big of a pain or not it was to set up.

Yea, MythTV would be a little overkill for just watching movies.:P

Edit: Just saw brebs post. The X-Fi Xtreme Audio works now w/out issue, at least for my purposes. It uses the ca0106 module. Which I believe is different from the other X-Fi cards.

Edit #2: Thanks for the link brebs.

Last edited by Echo (2008-03-22 05:44:17)

Thoht · 2008-03-22 06:46:21

Would the X-Fi or Audigy 4 support surround sound? I'm connecting to a Denon AVR-1507 surround reciever and then on to a pair of Dynavoice M-65 speakers, but I may invest in a subwoofer too or a 5.1 system.

brebs · 2008-03-22 06:53:51

See link.

Thoht · 2008-03-22 07:07:50

brebs wrote:

See link.

Silly me, you linked to that thread already. The Audigy 4 seems like a nice option tough, thanks!

Hypothetically, if I put a GeForce 8800GT and an Audigy 4 in my PC, connected to an LCD TV through DVI to HDMI, connected to the surround sound reciever with an optical TOSLINK (I think it's name was), which in it's turn connects to a pair of speakers, possibly a subwoofer too in the future or a complete 5.1 system, would this all work you think? So it'd be like a huge screen and big speakers and all sorts of cool stuf instead of just a regular TFT monitor and earphones?

Honken · 2008-03-22 11:57:25

The Chaintech AV-710 is really popular on many audio-related forums due to it's cheap price and good digital performance. It's a much better option than the Audigy 4 if you don't need stuff like EAX.

And yes, I don't see why that setup wouldn't work.

Echo · 2008-03-22 13:51:49

If you go Toslink (optical) you'll need the digital I/O module from Creative. http://us.creative.com/products/product … category=1

This would be true of all those creative cards listed at the bottom of that page. What's nice about this I/O module is that both the Digital and Optical out are sendiing the signal all the time. This means you could hook up two devices w/digital input at the same time, assuming one had an optical input and one device had a digital coaxial input. You don't "have to" have this device to hook up to one device, say your surround sound receiver. You could then just use a mono cable w/a mini jack on one side and a rca plug on the other.

Thoht, sounds like a nice system. Is your GeForce 8800GT fanless? I don't know much about sound cards other than that card is a lot newer than the one I use in my MythTV setup. Naturally, the reason I ask is noise.

Last edited by Echo (2008-03-22 13:54:26)

Thoht · 2008-03-22 13:51:55

The Chaintech AV-710 is not for sale in Sweden, the costs for shipping overseas are equal to that of the card itself, sadly!

Brebs, are you sure about that the Audigy 4 has a digital out? Creative's product page in Swedish is a bit dubious.

brebs · 2008-03-22 14:06:10

See specs. There's a white "digital i/o" connector at the end. Or see audigy 4 pro.

I only use the standard 3 analogue connectors, for 5.1 surround sound.

Thoht · 2008-03-22 14:10:10

Echo, I had understood that merely a digital out would be enough, and that I then would use an optical (Toslink) cable to connect? Digital signal equals optical cable? I must have misinterpreted some of the information here.

The GeForce's got a fan, I'm not too sure about the noise just yet. The PC I am to be using in this setup was built into a Lian Li PC-V300 which while looking very neat may not have been designed with acoustics and ventilation in mind. It's got the two front fans plugged in as of now, and the sound is noticable, although not annoying. Haven't been able to get Conky doing the temperature checks just yet, working on that part, which would let me see how many of the fans I really need to be running.

Echo · 2008-03-22 14:15:07

That digital connector is easy to miss because it requires a mini jack (1/8 jack). Not what I would consider a normal digital coax "rca" plug. At least in my mind. But, it works just fine.

Echo · 2008-03-22 14:21:14

Thoht wrote:

Echo, I had understood that merely a digital out would be enough, and that I then would use an optical (Toslink) cable to connect? Digital signal equals optical cable? I must have misinterpreted some of the information here. .

Easy enough to do.

Optical w/Toslink connection
Digital Coaxial Connections (rca) preferrably 75 Ohm Cable

Both types send digital signal. Audiophiles consider the Digital Coaxial out and cable better. I'm sure I couldn't hear the differences myself.

Edit: I wouldn't waste a lot of money on the cable as it's a digital signal. It either gets through to the receiver or it doesn't.

Last edited by Echo (2008-03-22 14:25:37)

KimTjik · 2008-03-22 14:39:27

If it's supposed to deliver a pleasant music experience I would definately suggest a USB DAC. See my post http://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=44838 (that nobody obviously found interesting at the time ).

I use the linked Trends USB DAC in Arch, and besides being totally trouble free it delivers excellent sound. I recommend the battery pack since it gives an even cleaner signal. PCI cards can never compete anyway with USB ones since the can't be isolated from electrical noise.

Thoht · 2008-03-22 15:27:20

Echo wrote:

Thoht wrote:
Echo, I had understood that merely a digital out would be enough, and that I then would use an optical (Toslink) cable to connect? Digital signal equals optical cable? I must have misinterpreted some of the information here. .
Easy enough to do.
Optical w/Toslink connection
Digital Coaxial Connections (rca) preferrably 75 Ohm Cable
Both types send digital signal. Audiophiles consider the Digital Coaxial out and cable better. I'm sure I couldn't hear the differences myself.
Edit: I wouldn't waste a lot of money on the cable as it's a digital signal. It either gets through to the receiver or it doesn't.

So you could recommend the cheaper(?) Toslink connection for a beginner with scarce budget? Here is the specifications for the sound reciever, it's got two coaxial digital inputs and two optical digital inputs, which gives me the option to change my mind at a later state when I've learnt more (and got more money ).

Echo wrote:

That digital connector is easy to miss because it requires a mini jack (1/8 jack). Not what I would consider a normal digital coax "rca" plug. At least in my mind. But, it works just fine.

Are you saying that there's a difference between the digital output on the Audigy 4 card and that of the X-Fi Xtreme Audio? Would this require something else than a standard Toslink cable, or be a matter of inconvenience?

KimTjik wrote:

If it's supposed to deliver a pleasant music experience I would definately suggest a USB DAC. See my post http://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=44838 (that nobody obviously found interesting at the time ).
I use the linked Trends USB DAC in Arch, and besides being totally trouble free it delivers excellent sound. I recommend the battery pack since it gives an even cleaner signal. PCI cards can never compete anyway with USB ones since the can't be isolated from electrical noise.

Thanks for the suggestion - although I'm not sure I quite understand what that gizmo was all about other than it was preferable to internal soundcards due to exposure to electronics, no offense. I'll definitely keep it in my mind for the future, right now I'm looking into a "beginner" solution, making it as simple as humanly possible just to see if it works and to learn something about audio and video for the future.

Echo · 2008-03-22 17:41:46

Thoht wrote:

So you could recommend the cheaper(?) Toslink connection for a beginner with scarce budget? Here is the specifications for the sound reciever, it's got two coaxial digital inputs and two optical digital inputs, which gives me the option to change my mind at a later state when I've learnt more (and got more money ).

Something like this:

http://www.ramelectronics.net/audio-vid … SPDIF.html

Would be the cheapest. Maybe not this particular cable, but, this was the first example I found. You can find cheaper. The 3.5mm side of the cable goes into the sound card and the rca side goes into the Denon. BTW, nice receiver. I use a Denon too. This would work for the Audigy4 or X-Fi Xtreme Audio card. Just make sure it's a mono cable. Neither one of the cards I just mentioned has Optical out (Toslink) unless you buy the I/O module I posted above to go with these cards.

Thoht wrote:

Are you saying that there's a difference between the digital output on the Audigy 4 card and that of the X-Fi Xtreme Audio?

No, that's not what I'm saying. Both of these cards have the same type of digital output.

Edit: Here's a cheap cable version of the above. I've actually used one of these on a Soundblaster Audigy2 Value card.

http://www.radioshack.com/product/index … age=search

Last edited by Echo (2008-03-22 17:49:46)

Honken · 2008-03-22 17:57:36

Basically, all the equipment in your PC generates EMI, electromagnetic interference. Some, not all, say that this interfere with audio signals, even digital ones, thus resulting in poorer sound. So, by using an USB-device instead some say that they get better sound (by separating the sound card from the PC).

I doubt that you'll notice the difference. Besides, an internal sound card results in less cables if you're going to hook it up with an external receiver. So, I'd recommend an internal one.

Anyways, in theory optical cables should be better, but the reality is a bit different. Many manufacturers use cheap connectors for their optical connectors and optical cables easily break(!). So, I'd recommend that you use coaxial cables.

http://www.prisjakt.nu/kategori.php?k=s … =s16545868

There you go, a list of cards available (I don't know why it separates coax and coax S/PDIF, coax IS S/PDIF). I got an ESI Juli@ myself, works like a charm in Linux. Not hard to setup, and it's got both optical and coaxial S/PDIF-out. Supports 5.1 over S/PDIF-out as well.

Last edited by Honken (2008-03-22 17:59:43)

fwojciec · 2008-03-22 18:39:44

This thread is getting a bit technical, so I might just as well...

Optical/Coaxial -- a source of controversy in audiophile circles; the fact is that unless you have a >$10000 dollar system and excellent hearing you are not going to hear any difference. Personally, I succumb to the theory that optical cables are best, since they isolate your audio equipment from the computer generated EMI storm (they use light not electricity to transfer digital signal).

USB dacs -- they're OK, as long as they have an independent power supply (that is, if they don't use USB for power as well as audio signal). I still prefer optical connection for the same reason I prefer optical to coaxial. Furthermore optical connection is a standard on all dacs, and you generally pay extra for USB connectivity.

Internal card/dac -- Dac! No question about it. Although if you're planning on using digital out to your receiver, your receiver is going to serve the function of the dac in your case. Stand-alone, specialized dacs tend to be better though.

Back on topic... Here is another $30 possibility (maybe they have those in Sweden): http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a … 6829118105
I haven't used it personally, but one of the customer reviews says that it works perfectly in Linux with Alsa and using digital out. The card uses CMI8738 chip, which is well supported in Linux (gpl drivers for both alsa and oss).

KimTjik · 2008-03-23 00:05:24

fwojciec, hearing is something you train, hence it's not necessary a static quality and also not necessary limited by pure physical conditions. I'm not in the business, but my farther is, so I "voluntarily" test and warm up some audio equipment. As a matter of fact he specializes in battery powered amplifiers and players of different kinds.

So I agree about the need for an external power supply for a USB DAC, but even if powered by the USB cable my experience with quality head-phones is very good (usually easier to judge this way). It was actually the experience with more expensive systems that led my interest toward these less known devices. Battery powered, meaning in my example some few extra dollars, it performs on a level that's hard to beat price/performance wise.

I'm not arguing since everyone has his/hers own preferences, but I'm surprised to see such a coold attitude toward USB devices. It's even practical, in view of how you can take it with you and connect to whatever computer/system you use for the moment. They're also cross-platform friendly.

Whatever makes you happy! Good luck with your system Thoht!

Last edited by KimTjik (2008-03-23 00:07:36)

Arch Linux

#1 2008-03-21 23:29:25

Looking for a sound card that works well under Arch

#2 2008-03-21 23:40:39

Re: Looking for a sound card that works well under Arch

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Re: Looking for a sound card that works well under Arch

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Re: Looking for a sound card that works well under Arch

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Re: Looking for a sound card that works well under Arch

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Re: Looking for a sound card that works well under Arch

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Re: Looking for a sound card that works well under Arch

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Re: Looking for a sound card that works well under Arch

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