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#51 2008-05-04 14:56:49

schivmeister
Developer/TU
From: Singapore
Registered: 2007-05-17
Posts: 971
Website

Re: Someone is doing us bad publicity in todays DWW

Boy, am I late for the party!

OK. Let's get my sub-mini-mini^10 sub-thesis started:

We have to understand what kind of a "community" the users of Arch Linux are part of. For that, we have to study history as far back as many many incomprehensible number of years:

2020BCBC: Judd Vim is unhappy with the milk distributed by the Gods, because he appears to have been growing fatter day by day.

2000BCBC: Judd Vim starts making his own milk, as he wants to become He-Man. To become He-Man, he knows he must drink a form of milk that has less sugar. He starts off by carving the following on a stone:

"If milk has more than 5000Kg of sugar; then
    throw
else;
    put milk in pail"

1945BCBC: Some people come to savour this milk, because they were just about to manuphrakture their own when a cow tells them someone had already done that.

1930BCBC: These like-minded people decide that this milk is good enough; making their own would be a waste of time. They thank Judd for this, and tells him they would be proud to help him mass-produce this milk in much bigger pails.

1800BCBC: Life is good. Judd, along with his brethren, is drinking a form of "skimmed" milk they call "Arch". This skimmed milk soon happens to be in the pails of passers-by who were always happy with the Gods' milk, but they take a liking to this one - because it is "skimmed" and does not add to the fat. They contemplate that less fat would help them marry fairer maidens.

1775BCBC: There are now approximately 1,000,000 barbarians drinking skimmed Arch milk, of which 850,000 are complaining that "it needs more sugar". They seem to have forgotten why this skimmed Arch milk was produced in the first place.

1650BCBC: Discontent grows with regards to the amount of sugar. A Bloody Sunday takes place, where at least 350,000 opposition party members are thrown into the Valley of the Damned. More and more people keep asking for more and more sugar, they want it to taste like what the Gods distribute. They say milk should be "lean AND fat".

1550BCBC: Word gets out. Barbarians across the universe hear of stronger and meaner barbarians that are making a new kind of milk. They are meaner because they do not listen to the people. They are meaner because they reject the idea of adding more sugar. They are bad barbarians, or so they hear.

Phrak Turd, Judd Vim's wholiest disciple, warns the newcomers that this wholely skimmed milk exist for a reason - to be skimmed. Thus, to have more sugar is having no reason to have this milk. They do not want to carry 500-tonne pails full of imbalanced nutrition. Unfortunately, by the end of the century, 550,000 young milk warriors raise a war on Archmilkers because they cannot fathom that very reason as to why skimmed Arch milk exist.

Present day: The future is red.

I think there's a huge misunderstanding of what the Arch community exists for. I don't think it exists to supplement the popular distributions, but I do think it exists to aid certain individuals or groups that have certain needs that Arch would satisfy. Many people think Arch developers/moderators/veterans are being hostile in some situations, when in fact they are told things frankly. Many Arch users are those that install the OS and live on for centuries without reinstalling. Many forget that there is even a forum, or a wiki. Those that feel the need to aid the project, would do so sincerely. It's actually a sub-community of sort, with people _willing_ to help people that are willing to help themselves. In short, people are helping each other because they wanted something before like what they now have.

This should have been clear, but it's always surprising to see how it's never clear; hence the hostile feedback of many beginners. We can only hope that they understand, and that they are welcome as new Arch users any day, since the swimming pool is open to all. Whether it feels like the beach, is up to them.

Last edited by schivmeister (2008-05-04 14:59:27)


I need real, proper pen and paper for this.

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#52 2008-05-04 15:45:51

chilebiker
Member
From: Zurich, Switzerland
Registered: 2006-07-18
Posts: 161

Re: Someone is doing us bad publicity in todays DWW

@schivmeister: I just had a nice laugh - you certainly made my day!


Wieso ist es nicht mehr so wie es noch nie war?

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#53 2008-05-04 16:02:57

bender02
Member
From: Germany
Registered: 2007-02-04
Posts: 1,328

Re: Someone is doing us bad publicity in todays DWW

@schivmeister: that's a good one!

To the frontpage with this! Or at least: to the wiki with this!

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#54 2008-05-04 17:01:35

skottish
Forum Fellow
From: Here
Registered: 2006-06-16
Posts: 7,942

Re: Someone is doing us bad publicity in todays DWW

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#55 2008-05-04 18:08:48

peets
Member
From: Montreal
Registered: 2007-01-11
Posts: 936
Website

Re: Someone is doing us bad publicity in todays DWW

Another noteworthy remark by skottish.

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#56 2008-05-04 19:51:35

Sigi
Member
From: Thurgau, Switzerland
Registered: 2005-09-22
Posts: 1,123

Re: Someone is doing us bad publicity in todays DWW

schivmeister wrote:

They contemplate that less fat would help them marry fairer maidens.

big_smile  Awesome story, schivmeister!


Haven't been here in a while. Still rocking Arch. smile

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#57 2008-05-04 20:21:24

dunc
Member
From: Glasgow, UK
Registered: 2007-06-18
Posts: 558

Re: Someone is doing us bad publicity in todays DWW

Brilliant, schivmeister! big_smile

The point being, this is Arch, this is how it works. If you can help, fine, but don't try to turn it into something is isn't, because most of us are quite happy with it.


0 Ok, 0:1

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#58 2008-05-04 21:06:35

Dusty
Schwag Merchant
From: Medicine Hat, Alberta, Canada
Registered: 2004-01-18
Posts: 5,986
Website

Re: Someone is doing us bad publicity in todays DWW

damn it schivmeister you might have to adopt skoal's forum title. If he doesn't show up with a counter-story of course. Revenge of the storytellers! Now Playing!

Dusty

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#59 2008-05-04 21:39:18

finferflu
Forum Fellow
From: Manchester, UK
Registered: 2007-06-21
Posts: 1,899
Website

Re: Someone is doing us bad publicity in todays DWW

schivmeister wrote:

I think there's a huge misunderstanding of what the Arch community exists for. I don't think it exists to supplement the popular distributions, but I do think it exists to aid certain individuals or groups that have certain needs that Arch would satisfy. Many people think Arch developers/moderators/veterans are being hostile in some situations, when in fact they are told things frankly. Many Arch users are those that install the OS and live on for centuries without reinstalling. Many forget that there is even a forum, or a wiki. Those that feel the need to aid the project, would do so sincerely. It's actually a sub-community of sort, with people _willing_ to help people that are willing to help themselves. In short, people are helping each other because they wanted something before like what they now have.
.

In short, don't touch the ecosystem. Going against Arch as it is now is like going against nature.


Have you Syued today?
Free music for free people! | Earthlings

"Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away." -- A. de Saint-Exupery

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#60 2008-05-04 23:28:44

skottish
Forum Fellow
From: Here
Registered: 2006-06-16
Posts: 7,942

Re: Someone is doing us bad publicity in todays DWW

Disclaimer:

I haven't actually read this thread and honestly I don't care...

Stop. Please, everyone, stop. There's nothing here. The thread was dead before it even started. Stop. Please!?!?!?!?!??!?

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#61 2008-05-05 00:10:02

finferflu
Forum Fellow
From: Manchester, UK
Registered: 2007-06-21
Posts: 1,899
Website

Re: Someone is doing us bad publicity in todays DWW

skottish, spam? big_smile
You should at least read post #51.


Have you Syued today?
Free music for free people! | Earthlings

"Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away." -- A. de Saint-Exupery

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#62 2008-05-05 01:34:31

skottish
Forum Fellow
From: Here
Registered: 2006-06-16
Posts: 7,942

Re: Someone is doing us bad publicity in todays DWW

finferflu wrote:

skottish, spam? big_smile
You should at least read post #51.

Thanks. That is awesome. schivmeister! Awesome!!!!!

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#63 2008-05-05 13:53:59

schivmeister
Developer/TU
From: Singapore
Registered: 2007-05-17
Posts: 971
Website

Re: Someone is doing us bad publicity in todays DWW

Dusty wrote:

damn it schivmeister you might have to adopt skoal's forum title. If he doesn't show up with a counter-story of course. Revenge of the storytellers! Now Playing!

Oh my, I never expected this one to become a blockbuster! Do not forget, an elusive poet is an elusive poet. So rest assured, that by the time skoal boards a flight and reads the boards, the second revolution will just be about to reach ultimatum. In any case, I have to say I am no match for THE village bard, and a fitting title it is - for him and him alone lol

Thanks to all who managed to have a laugh! After all, laughter is the best medicine for topics such as this.

Last edited by schivmeister (2008-05-05 13:58:22)


I need real, proper pen and paper for this.

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#64 2008-05-06 20:32:34

Bestiapeluda
Member
From: Buenos Aires, Argentina
Registered: 2007-10-16
Posts: 180

Re: Someone is doing us bad publicity in todays DWW

@ schivmeister  :  That was EPIC

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#65 2008-05-06 21:56:30

TheBodziO
Member
From: Dukla, Poland
Registered: 2006-07-28
Posts: 230
Website

Re: Someone is doing us bad publicity in todays DWW

@schivmeister:
Neat! [picks up a camera and shoots a pic]


It's not the best thing when they call you a "member" you know… wink

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#66 2008-05-07 09:15:53

B-Con
Member
From: USA
Registered: 2007-12-17
Posts: 553
Website

Re: Someone is doing us bad publicity in todays DWW

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#67 2008-05-07 09:29:45

finferflu
Forum Fellow
From: Manchester, UK
Registered: 2007-06-21
Posts: 1,899
Website

Re: Someone is doing us bad publicity in todays DWW

To my knowledge, there is also an alternate history. Which one will be true?


Have you Syued today?
Free music for free people! | Earthlings

"Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away." -- A. de Saint-Exupery

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#68 2008-05-07 09:58:01

iphitus
Forum Fellow
From: Melbourne, Australia
Registered: 2004-10-09
Posts: 4,927

Re: Someone is doing us bad publicity in todays DWW

schivmeister wrote:

1650BCBC: Discontent grows with regards to the amount of sugar. A Bloody Sunday takes place, where at least 350,000 opposition party members are thrown into the Valley of the Damned. More and more people keep asking for more and more sugar, they want it to taste like what the Gods distribute. They say milk should be "lean AND fat".

1550BCBC: Word gets out. Barbarians across the universe hear of stronger and meaner barbarians that are making a new kind of milk. They are meaner because they do not listen to the people. They are meaner because they reject the idea of adding more sugar. They are bad barbarians, or so they hear.

Phrak Turd, Judd Vim's wholiest disciple, warns the newcomers that this wholely skimmed milk exist for a reason - to be skimmed. Thus, to have more sugar is having no reason to have this milk. They do not want to carry 500-tonne pails full of imbalanced nutrition. Unfortunately, by the end of the century, 550,000 young milk warriors raise a war on Archmilkers because they cannot fathom that very reason as to why skimmed Arch milk exist.

Present day: The future is red.

Look. Sorry, but that history needs to be shortened to before 1650BCBC, with peace reigning afterwards. We cannot allow our World Domination plans to be exposed so trivially.

Failure to comply will result in a pleasant field trip to the Valley of the Damned Awesome*

* may lack awesomeness

Last edited by iphitus (2008-05-07 09:58:40)

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#69 2008-05-07 10:25:43

sweiss
Member
Registered: 2004-02-16
Posts: 635

Re: Someone is doing us bad publicity in todays DWW

Misfit138 wrote:

From the link in my sig on Arch forum etiquette:

INEFFECTIVE DISCUSSION ("BIKESHED")

Questioning or discussing the methods used by the Arch Linux development team will be monitored closely and locked if deemed unhelpful. If you have a question regarding Arch development, ensure that your topic poses a specific question. If possible, include a proposed solution or partial solution. Submitting code and patches for discussion is always a good thing.
Topics stating the equivalent of "there is a problem, we need to discuss it" have been repeatedly proven ineffective and inflammatory and will be locked with a warning from the moderation team. Arch is a Do It Yourself community. If you have a problem, find a solution, then post.

When was this forum etiquette document written? And who is the author? I see way too many definitions of the Arch community, and I've no idea where they are all coming from.
I see nothing wrong with a discussion board being used for discussions. Posting solutions is something more suiting for a wiki.
Criticism should not be regarded as spam.

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#70 2008-05-07 10:30:06

Allan
Supreme Leader
From: Brisbane, AU
Registered: 2007-06-09
Posts: 10,750
Website

Re: Someone is doing us bad publicity in todays DWW

sweiss wrote:

When was this forum etiquette document written?

http://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?tit … on=history

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#71 2008-05-07 12:17:40

shining
Pacman Developer
Registered: 2006-05-10
Posts: 2,043

Re: Someone is doing us bad publicity in todays DWW

sweiss wrote:

I see nothing wrong with a discussion board being used for discussions. Posting solutions is something more suiting for a wiki.
Criticism should not be regarded as spam.

I think you missed (on purpose?) the keyword here, which was : unhelpful.


pacman roulette : pacman -S $(pacman -Slq | LANG=C sort -R | head -n $((RANDOM % 10)))

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#72 2008-05-07 14:57:44

sweiss
Member
Registered: 2004-02-16
Posts: 635

Re: Someone is doing us bad publicity in todays DWW

shining wrote:
sweiss wrote:

I see nothing wrong with a discussion board being used for discussions. Posting solutions is something more suiting for a wiki.
Criticism should not be regarded as spam.

I think you missed (on purpose?) the keyword here, which was : unhelpful.

Define helpful, then.
I don't think any "Arch Is Great" thread or, for example, the ongoing "Intel vs. AMD" thread can be considered helpful.
Should they be closed?

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#73 2008-05-07 15:08:13

finferflu
Forum Fellow
From: Manchester, UK
Registered: 2007-06-21
Posts: 1,899
Website

Re: Someone is doing us bad publicity in todays DWW

sweiss wrote:

I don't think any "Arch Is Great" thread . . . can be considered helpful.

I find those threads exceedingly useful big_smile

(Sorry for interrupting, go on)


Have you Syued today?
Free music for free people! | Earthlings

"Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away." -- A. de Saint-Exupery

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#74 2008-05-07 15:18:39

wuischke
Member
From: Suisse Romande
Registered: 2007-01-06
Posts: 630

Re: Someone is doing us bad publicity in todays DWW

"unhelpful" is used in combination with "criticism" and neither "Arch is Great" nor "Intel vs. AMD" are criticism.

What the heck is wrong with you people that you have to ride a dead horse until it decays? (I'm out again, sorry, I just get agitated every time I see a discussion leading nowhere being streched on and on.)

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#75 2008-05-07 15:48:17

sweiss
Member
Registered: 2004-02-16
Posts: 635

Re: Someone is doing us bad publicity in todays DWW

Over the 4+ years I've been here, I've seen the distribution evolves, as well as the community changes.
Some of the changes were welcome additions, others were less so.

I guess we're just riding different horses, then.
And I truely wonder what is it that I said that some claim I miss things on purpose, and others tag me as "you people".

The way of the world, it seems. Go against the current, and drown.

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