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#1 2004-05-28 11:06:40

tehdely
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Registered: 2004-02-20
Posts: 148
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[ arch circlejerk in this thread ] I HATE FEDORA

I am setting up a friend's Fedora system for him.  This is effectively his first time with Linux (he had an abortive attempt with Red Hat 7.2 a while back, but it never lasted).

He's using Fedora primarily because he's in a position where GUI tools are essential, plus having those huge repositories of RPMs available for him to install is just too much to pass up.

Of course I'm the one doing the work of actually setting up his system to be usable.  Let's go through my laundry list of complaints about this utter turd of a distro:

[ 1 ] yum is the slowest package manager I have ever used.  My buddy is using a 56k modem.  Having to download an individual header file for each package is absurd.  I canceled a yum install immediately after it started grabbing the headers and I realized he was in for over two hours of downloads.  I then installed apt so at least he had a sensible rpm front end and package retriever.
[ 2 ] Sys-V init is the work of satan himself.  I wanted the 'ntfs' kernel module to autoload when his system booted.  Where, might I ask, do I specify such a thing?  With Arch, I could use the lovely bsd-ish rc.conf.  I ended up giving up on figuring out where in Red Hat's byzantine init system I could specify module autoloads.  Also, services.  How exactly does one specify which ones to start at startup and not to start?  Do I have to create some retarded S2347234sshd K72347987234urmomdaemonfromhell symlinks in /etc/rc23445134561345.d just to get something to start up?  WHY WOULD ANYONE USE SUCH AN INFERNAL INIT SYSTEM, GAH
[ 3 ] Useless kernel headers.  I'm trying to install ATI's binary module so he can have 3D acceleration on his Radeon.  Now, ATI's module is rather picky.  It is picky in that it would like to have a usable set of kernel headers.  That's apparently too tall of an order for Fedora.  It installs not one, but two incomplete sets of headers.  One, in /lib/modules/`uname -r`/build, which seems to be missing includes for all sorts of drivers (and is thus useless to ATI's installer), and the other one, which comes with the kernel-sources rpm, in /usr/src/linux-`uname -r`/.  Of course, that set of headers is not technically complete until you have built the kernel in question.  Which leads me to what I'm actually doing now:
I am rebuilding his damn kernel (same version as he's already running) so I can have a complete set of usable headers, and so he can have ntfs support at boot (I just enabled it in menuconfig so it will be built right into the kernel ).



All things Fedora and/or Red Hat are the work of Beelzebub, the dark one, Lucifer who fell from the sky.  They exist only to thwart GNU/Linux users from the fulfillment that is rightfully theirs.   :twisted:


[Arch GNUstep Repository] [ PKGBUILDS ]
[code][gnustep]
Server = ftp://blkwidow.lerp.com/pub/mirror/arch/gnustep[/code]

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#2 2004-05-28 11:53:35

tehdely
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Registered: 2004-02-20
Posts: 148
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Re: [ arch circlejerk in this thread ] I HATE FEDORA

[ 4 ] To top off this shit, I went ahead and built the new kernel.  Of course it took nearly an hour before it even got to modpost, thanks to Fedora building everything in their default kernel.  Then I went and did the make rpm rule, which was supposed to, you know, package it up in an rpm.  AND WHAT DOES IT DO FIRST BUT MAKE MRPROPER.  WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY

I HATE FEDORA
I HATE FEDORA
I HATE FEDORA
I HATE FEDORA
I HATE FEDORA
I HATE FEDORA
I HATE FEDORA
I I HATE FEDORA
I HATE FEDORA
I HATE FEDORA
I HATE FEDORA
HAI HATE FEDORA
I HATE FEDORA
I HATE FEDORA
I HATE FEDORA
TEI HATE FEDORA
I HATE FEDORA
I HATE FEDORA
I HATE FEDORA
FEDORA


[Arch GNUstep Repository] [ PKGBUILDS ]
[code][gnustep]
Server = ftp://blkwidow.lerp.com/pub/mirror/arch/gnustep[/code]

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#3 2004-05-28 12:00:15

bigh
Member
From: Zurich, Switzerland
Registered: 2004-03-23
Posts: 62

Re: [ arch circlejerk in this thread ] I HATE FEDORA

lol rofl

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#4 2004-05-28 12:15:25

wdemoss
Member
From: WV - USA
Registered: 2004-01-18
Posts: 222

Re: [ arch circlejerk in this thread ] I HATE FEDORA

kinda makes you wonder if Arch isn't more newbie friendly?
-wd


Hobbes : Shouldn't we read the instructions?
Calvin : Do I look like a sissy?

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#5 2004-05-28 12:21:01

tehdely
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Registered: 2004-02-20
Posts: 148
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Re: [ arch circlejerk in this thread ] I HATE FEDORA

Arch may not be very newbie-friendly because it relies on you to do a lot of things other distros automatically set up for you.

However, in doing so, it is very Linux-user friendly.

I like the fact that Arch doesn't make decisions for me.  It makes it a lot easier for me to make decisions as a result.


[Arch GNUstep Repository] [ PKGBUILDS ]
[code][gnustep]
Server = ftp://blkwidow.lerp.com/pub/mirror/arch/gnustep[/code]

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#6 2004-05-28 16:51:38

cactus
Taco Eater
From: t͈̫̹ͨa͖͕͎̱͈ͨ͆ć̥̖̝o̫̫̼s͈̭̱̞͍̃!̰
Registered: 2004-05-25
Posts: 4,615
Website

Re: [ arch circlejerk in this thread ] I HATE FEDORA

I find this distro bashing counter productive. If you don't like a distro, then by all means, do not use it.
Lets not turn this into the gentoo forums please...


"Be conservative in what you send; be liberal in what you accept." -- Postel's Law
"tacos" -- Cactus' Law
"t̥͍͎̪̪͗a̴̻̩͈͚ͨc̠o̩̙͈ͫͅs͙͎̙͊ ͔͇̫̜t͎̳̀a̜̞̗ͩc̗͍͚o̲̯̿s̖̣̤̙͌ ̖̜̈ț̰̫͓ạ̪͖̳c̲͎͕̰̯̃̈o͉ͅs̪ͪ ̜̻̖̜͕" -- -̖͚̫̙̓-̺̠͇ͤ̃ ̜̪̜ͯZ͔̗̭̞ͪA̝͈̙͖̩L͉̠̺͓G̙̞̦͖O̳̗͍

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#7 2004-05-28 18:44:49

Zephirias
Member
From: Pennsylvania, USA
Registered: 2004-04-26
Posts: 179

Re: [ arch circlejerk in this thread ] I HATE FEDORA

cactus wrote:

I find this distro bashing counter productive. If you don't like a distro, then by all means, do not use it.
Lets not turn this into the gentoo forums please...

Remember that most Linux experts think that Fedora is crap, though. tongue


"Technically, you would only need one time traveler convention."

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#8 2004-05-28 19:16:53

Dusty
Schwag Merchant
From: Medicine Hat, Alberta, Canada
Registered: 2004-01-18
Posts: 5,986
Website

Re: [ arch circlejerk in this thread ] I HATE FEDORA

They do?

I'd say more self-appointed Linux experts think fedora is crap than real Linux experts...

A lot of people working on Fedora (and working for Red Hat) are Linux experts.

I've never used Fedora.

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#9 2004-05-28 19:33:54

Drago
Member
From: Canada
Registered: 2004-01-03
Posts: 12

Re: [ arch circlejerk in this thread ] I HATE FEDORA

i've never tried fedora, so i wouldnt really know how good it is.

I find this distro bashing counter productive. If you don't like a distro, then by all means, do not use it.
Lets not turn this into the gentoo forums please...

ya lets try to keep things neutral, even though it is fedora. hehe

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#10 2004-05-28 20:52:48

aCoder
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From: Medina, OH
Registered: 2004-03-07
Posts: 359
Website

Re: [ arch circlejerk in this thread ] I HATE FEDORA

Hey! I'm back for a week! :twisted:

Actually, I like Fedora, but not all that much.  Arch is much faster and easier to use, assuming you know Linux or you're willing to learn, but Fedora is the 2.6 distro that will run on older PCs, and in my experience actually runs slower on some newer systems.  Optimization is a very important factor in a distro these days.  Of course, on most older systems, I would use Slackware, but I certainkly wouldn't try to scare anyone away from Fedora, although I may warn them about RPM hell.


If you develop an ear for sounds that are musical it is like developing an ego. You begin to refuse sounds that are not musical and that way cut yourself off from a good deal of experience.
  - John Cage

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#11 2004-05-29 01:10:18

kakabaratruskia
Member
From: Santiago, Chile
Registered: 2003-08-24
Posts: 596

Re: [ arch circlejerk in this thread ] I HATE FEDORA

I used fedora core 1, and I must agree that it was crap. It was sloooooow. That's the main characteristic. Everything was two hours of waiting. Then, the package installer was broken, and crashed everytime I tried to install something. The installing process was also poor, and crashed at least 2 times before I could finally set up the system. Hope Fedora Core 2 is better.


And where were all the sportsmen who always pulled you though?
They're all resting down in Cornwall
writing up their memoirs for a paper-back edition
of the Boy Scout Manual.

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#12 2004-05-29 07:08:11

Mr Green
Forum Fellow
From: U.K.
Registered: 2003-12-21
Posts: 5,770

Re: [ arch circlejerk in this thread ] I HATE FEDORA

Fedora is a tesing ground for Red Hat ..  wink


Mr Green

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#13 2004-05-29 07:43:00

cactus
Taco Eater
From: t͈̫̹ͨa͖͕͎̱͈ͨ͆ć̥̖̝o̫̫̼s͈̭̱̞͍̃!̰
Registered: 2004-05-25
Posts: 4,615
Website

Re: [ arch circlejerk in this thread ] I HATE FEDORA

Mr Green wrote:

Fedora is a tesing ground for Red Hat ..  wink

It sure is!
:shock:


"Be conservative in what you send; be liberal in what you accept." -- Postel's Law
"tacos" -- Cactus' Law
"t̥͍͎̪̪͗a̴̻̩͈͚ͨc̠o̩̙͈ͫͅs͙͎̙͊ ͔͇̫̜t͎̳̀a̜̞̗ͩc̗͍͚o̲̯̿s̖̣̤̙͌ ̖̜̈ț̰̫͓ạ̪͖̳c̲͎͕̰̯̃̈o͉ͅs̪ͪ ̜̻̖̜͕" -- -̖͚̫̙̓-̺̠͇ͤ̃ ̜̪̜ͯZ͔̗̭̞ͪA̝͈̙͖̩L͉̠̺͓G̙̞̦͖O̳̗͍

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#14 2004-05-29 11:43:08

Haakon
Member
From: Bergen, Norway
Registered: 2004-05-09
Posts: 109

Re: [ arch circlejerk in this thread ] I HATE FEDORA

This whole thread belongs at best in the forum "Linux Distributions", which exists to discuss other distros. Please move it there.


Jabber: haakon@jabber.org

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#15 2004-06-30 21:14:38

onami
Member
From: Romania
Registered: 2004-05-05
Posts: 197

Re: [ arch circlejerk in this thread ] I HATE FEDORA

I used fedora core 1 for a long time.
My first distro was knoppix big_smile , and the next redhat 8 and I enjoyed both.
They were followed by redhat 9.0 which I didn't quite like, it was slow, and I had a lots of crashes.
I jumped to mandrake 9.1 which I liked and then debian and fedora.
I enjoyed fedora because It was fast and reliable, and easy to configure with gui. My girlfriend who only knows from me about linux, she used it on my computer and asked me to install it on her's.
So it is not crap.

Arch I enjoy very much because of pacman and it's recursivity in package installing and because it made learn very much about how linux works, how to configure it. Fedora has most things configured and a lot of  configuring files which are quite hard to follow and edit.
It is not for a hacker, it is for a middle level of knolledge (in console handleing i mean), and it's gui help beginners, and kudzu is usefull if you never heard of modprobe.

Arch is very easy to use and configure but not for beginners.

Please don't be so bad to other distro's because they are linux too which means they are friends. Linux users should help each others, not be rude to one another.

It is all about taste.

My taste says Arch is for me, like other distros are for other people.


Forever newbie !!!

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