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#1 2004-05-30 17:41:39

antonis00
Member
From: Cyprus
Registered: 2004-05-30
Posts: 10

Arch Linux Extra iso

I believe Arch should have one more  iso image in every release in which packages from extra could be included (like kde). That would make it possible/easier for people without broadband connectiions to move to arch linux.  It is a nightmare trying to install kde or other big packages from generally slow mirrors. I hope Arch 0.7 becomes a 2-3 CD distro....

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#2 2004-05-30 17:59:31

Zephirias
Member
From: Pennsylvania, USA
Registered: 2004-04-26
Posts: 179

Re: Arch Linux Extra iso

The full ISO of Arch Linux does contain KDE/GNOME and X, IIRC. As for anything else, the point of Arch (as I see it, at least), is so you can install a minimal system, and build it up from there, instead of having a bloated install of useless things...I don't expect to see multiple CDs in the future, nor should there really be, unless package size causes it to.


"Technically, you would only need one time traveler convention."

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#3 2004-05-30 17:59:52

contrasutra
Member
From: New Jersey
Registered: 2003-07-26
Posts: 507

Re: Arch Linux Extra iso

Arch is NOT an ISO distro. Anything you get on the ISO will be beta, and shouldn't be run every day.

By the time the ISO even ships, newer packages will be available. You will also not be able to grab new stuff from Pacman if you just run the ISO, because there will be binary/lib incompatibilities.

So basically, we don't want to encourage people to just run the ISO.

Once again, I ran Arch (fully up to date) on dialup for 7 months. It's fine.


"Contrary to popular belief, penguins are not the salvation of modern technology.  Neither do they throw parties for the urban proletariat."

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#4 2004-05-30 18:52:37

Dusty
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From: Medicine Hat, Alberta, Canada
Registered: 2004-01-18
Posts: 5,986
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Re: Arch Linux Extra iso

http://www.archlinux.org/docs/en/guide/ … html#repos

There will not be an extra snapshot, it would be out of date quickly and unsecure too.

Dusty

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#5 2004-05-31 09:23:42

antonis00
Member
From: Cyprus
Registered: 2004-05-30
Posts: 10

Re: Arch Linux Extra iso

In arch 0.6 full iso there is NO kde.
I downloaded the full iso a few days ago and I installed everything !!! When I tried to install kde with pacman the speed I got (even though I have 1Mbps ADSL) was around 4KB/s and sometimes it was completely stalled. And yes I tried different mirrors. How can some of you say that they can install using dialup ??? That's why therer should be a second cd with kde,gnome etc. Of cource the second cd wouldn't be required for an install. The software on the second CD should be compatible with the software on the 1st CD. Because of this I was not able yet to test arch with kde which is the DE I use  on a daily basis.
Arch Linux is the best distro I've seen up to now (I'am using linux since 1995) but I need a second CD.

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#6 2004-05-31 14:58:49

Dusty
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From: Medicine Hat, Alberta, Canada
Registered: 2004-01-18
Posts: 5,986
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Re: Arch Linux Extra iso

There's something wrong with your download speeds if you're getting that on different mirrors, I'd investigate it.

Those of us on dialup have learned to be patient (or have gone insane). smile

You could make an ISO yourself. I don't know how to do this, but it would be an excellent wiki howto if somebody could explain it, for both extra and current.

However, using an ISO cd will make your system out of date immediatly you install it.  You'll have to get a decent download connection to keep up to date (or discover patience, but that's a long and arduous path...) if you want to use Arch. Its impossible to selectively upgrade packages in Arch (nay, its possible, but certain to break packages).

Dusty

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#7 2004-05-31 15:11:56

Zephirias
Member
From: Pennsylvania, USA
Registered: 2004-04-26
Posts: 179

Re: Arch Linux Extra iso

Dusty's right, but you also can't treat Arch like it's the only connection-reliant distro...because essentially, any distro's going to require a lot of downloading if its packages are updated often and more bleeding edge, or there are a lot of packages (Arch/Gentoo/Debian)...if you need a more "stable" release distro, something along the lines of Mandrake, SUSE, or Red Hat/Fedora would be better (yes, I know there are a lot of bugs, too, but oh well...).


"Technically, you would only need one time traveler convention."

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#8 2004-05-31 16:03:20

Dusty
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From: Medicine Hat, Alberta, Canada
Registered: 2004-01-18
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Re: Arch Linux Extra iso

Zephirias wrote:

Dusty's right

*nettled*

Of course I'm right.

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#9 2004-05-31 16:08:24

Xentac
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From: Victoria, BC
Registered: 2003-01-17
Posts: 1,797
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Re: Arch Linux Extra iso

The other thing is, technologically, pacman doesn't know how to handle multiple cds.  It only knows how to resolve dependencies off of one cd.  Someone needs to write a wrapper around pacman to let it resolve dependencies across multiple cds (and it's not going to be me!).


I have discovered that all of mans unhappiness derives from only one source, not being able to sit quietly in a room
- Blaise Pascal

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#10 2004-05-31 17:48:14

Zephirias
Member
From: Pennsylvania, USA
Registered: 2004-04-26
Posts: 179

Re: Arch Linux Extra iso

Xentac wrote:

The other thing is, technologically, pacman doesn't know how to handle multiple cds.  It only knows how to resolve dependencies off of one cd.  Someone needs to write a wrapper around pacman to let it resolve dependencies across multiple cds (and it's not going to be me!).

Then who cares? Keep it at one CD. Why be like a lot of other distros with two CDs? I mean, Slackware's 9.1 was the first version to have 2, IIRC...keep it minimal, keep it clean. It's less bloated that way, plus, I find it annoying to be in the middle of an install after walking away for a while, to find that for the past 30 minutes I needed to change the CD, therefore losing potential installation time...


"Technically, you would only need one time traveler convention."

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#11 2004-05-31 20:30:01

kakabaratruskia
Member
From: Santiago, Chile
Registered: 2003-08-24
Posts: 596

Re: Arch Linux Extra iso

Zephirias wrote:
Xentac wrote:

The other thing is, technologically, pacman doesn't know how to handle multiple cds.  It only knows how to resolve dependencies off of one cd.  Someone needs to write a wrapper around pacman to let it resolve dependencies across multiple cds (and it's not going to be me!).

Then who cares? Keep it at one CD. Why be like a lot of other distros with two CDs? I mean, Slackware's 9.1 was the first version to have 2, IIRC...keep it minimal, keep it clean. It's less bloated that way, plus, I find it annoying to be in the middle of an install after walking away for a while, to find that for the past 30 minutes I needed to change the CD, therefore losing potential installation time...

I think it's OK if someone wants more than one CD. Maybe there should be a DVD version (although not much people have DVD burners). I think the best wouldbe to have a base iso, and a full iso, that included KDE and GNOME.


And where were all the sportsmen who always pulled you though?
They're all resting down in Cornwall
writing up their memoirs for a paper-back edition
of the Boy Scout Manual.

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#12 2004-05-31 20:36:09

tpowa
Developer
From: Lauingen , Germany
Registered: 2004-04-05
Posts: 2,322

Re: Arch Linux Extra iso

all you have to do is
copy the packages from the repo you need
and burn it with it's database to cdrom
and add this to to install source in pacman.conf
then you can change the media if it doesn't get all the packages and rerun pacman with the other cd
for me all things fit on one cd so no problem with transferring packages to other pcs

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#13 2004-05-31 22:25:27

Zephirias
Member
From: Pennsylvania, USA
Registered: 2004-04-26
Posts: 179

Re: Arch Linux Extra iso

Well, bottom line, if we even decided to add another disc, it should be 100% optional. I hate multiple CD installs, as it always raises the risk for error, from my experience.


"Technically, you would only need one time traveler convention."

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#14 2004-05-31 22:46:00

dp
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From: Zürich, Switzerland
Registered: 2003-05-27
Posts: 3,378
Website

Re: Arch Linux Extra iso

instead of having an additional disc, i would propose, that we make a tool to choose the pkgs you want to put on a cd and then this tool (skript) downloads the pkgs (and the dependences that are not included in the installer-iso), makes the db.tar.gz and makes then an iso of it  -  then you can burn this iso to a cd and go to your offline-computer and add a [cd-repository] in pacman.conf and install your stuff you want to

EDIT: unfortunately i have quite no time besides the uni now, else i would write such a script

EDIT: let's call it paccd

[damir@Asteraceae /]$ paccd -S kde gnome
:: Creating Iso-File ... DONE
:: Mounting Iso-File ... DONE
:: Making list of pkgs and dependences ... DONE
:: Downloading the needed pkgs ... DONE
:: gensync_cd ... DONE
:: ping! iso ready!
[damir@Asteraceae /]$

The impossible missions are the only ones which succeed.

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#15 2004-05-31 23:22:33

Zephirias
Member
From: Pennsylvania, USA
Registered: 2004-04-26
Posts: 179

Re: Arch Linux Extra iso

dp wrote:

instead of having an additional disc, i would propose, that we make a tool to choose the pkgs you want to put on a cd and then this tool (skript) downloads the pkgs (and the dependences that are not included in the installer-iso), makes the db.tar.gz and makes then an iso of it  -  then you can burn this iso to a cd and go to your offline-computer and add a [cd-repository] in pacman.conf and install your stuff you want to

EDIT: unfortunately i have quite no time besides the uni now, else i would write such a script

EDIT: let's call it paccd

[damir@Asteraceae /]$ paccd -S kde gnome
:: Creating Iso-File ... DONE
:: Mounting Iso-File ... DONE
:: Making list of pkgs and dependences ... DONE
:: Downloading the needed pkgs ... DONE
:: gensync_cd ... DONE
:: ping! iso ready!
[damir@Asteraceae /]$

That's actually not a bad idea.


"Technically, you would only need one time traveler convention."

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#16 2004-05-31 23:27:04

Dusty
Schwag Merchant
From: Medicine Hat, Alberta, Canada
Registered: 2004-01-18
Posts: 5,986
Website

Re: Arch Linux Extra iso

Zephirias wrote:

That's actually not a bad idea.

*nettled*

of course its a good idea.

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#17 2004-05-31 23:35:16

Zephirias
Member
From: Pennsylvania, USA
Registered: 2004-04-26
Posts: 179

Re: Arch Linux Extra iso

Dusty wrote:
Zephirias wrote:

That's actually not a bad idea.

*nettled*

of course its a good idea.

You're love being right, don't you? lol


"Technically, you would only need one time traveler convention."

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#18 2004-05-31 23:56:15

Dusty
Schwag Merchant
From: Medicine Hat, Alberta, Canada
Registered: 2004-01-18
Posts: 5,986
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#19 2004-06-01 01:37:21

Zephirias
Member
From: Pennsylvania, USA
Registered: 2004-04-26
Posts: 179

Re: Arch Linux Extra iso

Dusty wrote:

Wasn't my idea.

Did I ask if it was your idea? tongue  lol


"Technically, you would only need one time traveler convention."

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#20 2004-06-01 10:55:22

dp
Member
From: Zürich, Switzerland
Registered: 2003-05-27
Posts: 3,378
Website

Re: Arch Linux Extra iso

what is the meaning of "*nettled*"?


The impossible missions are the only ones which succeed.

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#21 2004-06-01 16:02:55

Dusty
Schwag Merchant
From: Medicine Hat, Alberta, Canada
Registered: 2004-01-18
Posts: 5,986
Website

Re: Arch Linux Extra iso

dp wrote:

what is the meaning of "*nettled*"?

Ticked off, annoyed, peeved.

I think it comes from those annoying plants called "nettles" that make you itch.

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#22 2004-06-01 20:35:22

sarah31
Member
From: Middle of Canada
Registered: 2002-08-20
Posts: 2,975
Website

Re: Arch Linux Extra iso

antonis00 wrote:

In arch 0.6 full iso there is NO kde.
I downloaded the full iso a few days ago and I installed everything !!! When I tried to install kde with pacman the speed I got (even though I have 1Mbps ADSL) was around 4KB/s and sometimes it was completely stalled.

Well i don't know about anyone else but to me it sounds as though there is something wrong with your connection. personally i can see a benefit for having a second CD but in the same breath i can't. I know there are arch dialup users and while they bitch and moan they still seem to get by. I know that may sound mean but as several people mention it just is not practical or currently feasible to have more than a one cd install.


AKA uknowme

I am not your friend

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#23 2004-06-01 21:13:08

Dusty
Schwag Merchant
From: Medicine Hat, Alberta, Canada
Registered: 2004-01-18
Posts: 5,986
Website

Re: Arch Linux Extra iso

sarah31 wrote:

I know there are arch dialup users and while they bitch and moan they still seem to get by.

We aren't the only ones that bitch and moan!!!! :-D

Its an inherent human trait...

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#24 2004-06-02 11:03:45

antonis00
Member
From: Cyprus
Registered: 2004-05-30
Posts: 10

Re: Arch Linux Extra iso

sarah31 wrote:
antonis00 wrote:

In arch 0.6 full iso there is NO kde.
I downloaded the full iso a few days ago and I installed everything !!! When I tried to install kde with pacman the speed I got (even though I have 1Mbps ADSL) was around 4KB/s and sometimes it was completely stalled.

Well i don't know about anyone else but to me it sounds as though there is something wrong with your connection. personally i can see a benefit for having a second CD but in the same breath i can't. I know there are arch dialup users and while they bitch and moan they still seem to get by. I know that may sound mean but as several people mention it just is not practical or currently feasible to have more than a one cd install.

There is nothing wrong with my connection. I get full speed with other sites or when I download other distros that have more mirrors. Arch mirrors seem to be very busy...

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