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#1 2004-05-31 17:22:23

zeppelin
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From: Athens, Greece
Registered: 2004-03-05
Posts: 807
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Slackware the last big distro to have Xfree86 4.4 switches

to X.org Xserver

patrick decided that after receiving feedback from SlackWare fans.


for me an X-lover of Slackware this is great news. I was angry to see SLACKWARE on the list of Xfree whackos.
see here: http://www.xfree86.org/distro-support.html

they had ArchLinux there [they had mispelled pacman as a lot of us remember] then a guy from the forum [dont' remember who he was], wrote to them about mispelling pacman and also said that AL has X.org too. so they removed ArchLinux. but now they added it again..

this is so iritating. Judd I know you don't read the forums, but plz man, mail those guys. this is bad reputation for this excellent distro [archlinux I mean tongue]. bad reputation and nothing else.

f__k those guys that thought they could everything they want. Now they can co-live with some BSD distributions than confuse absolute liberty with slavery

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#2 2004-05-31 17:34:01

cactus
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From: t͈̫̹ͨa͖͕͎̱͈ͨ͆ć̥̖̝o̫̫̼s͈̭̱̞͍̃!̰
Registered: 2004-05-25
Posts: 4,615
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Re: Slackware the last big distro to have Xfree86 4.4 switches

Since AL supports both, I don't see why it should not be on their list. The list appears to just note distros that do include XFree...not distros that only include XFree.


"Be conservative in what you send; be liberal in what you accept." -- Postel's Law
"tacos" -- Cactus' Law
"t̥͍͎̪̪͗a̴̻̩͈͚ͨc̠o̩̙͈ͫͅs͙͎̙͊ ͔͇̫̜t͎̳̀a̜̞̗ͩc̗͍͚o̲̯̿s̖̣̤̙͌ ̖̜̈ț̰̫͓ạ̪͖̳c̲͎͕̰̯̃̈o͉ͅs̪ͪ ̜̻̖̜͕" -- -̖͚̫̙̓-̺̠͇ͤ̃ ̜̪̜ͯZ͔̗̭̞ͪA̝͈̙͖̩L͉̠̺͓G̙̞̦͖O̳̗͍

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#3 2004-05-31 17:59:48

Zephirias
Member
From: Pennsylvania, USA
Registered: 2004-04-26
Posts: 179

Re: Slackware the last big distro to have Xfree86 4.4 switches

I agree, I think we should drop support. I'm on X.Org, and I feel perfectly fine with it, and it runs pretty well.

One thing I've noticed with the general Linux community is that if it starts changing to something else (i.e. XFree to X.Org), you should follow, or you'll be left in the dust.


"Technically, you would only need one time traveler convention."

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#4 2004-05-31 18:05:11

apeiro
Daddy
From: Victoria, BC, Canada
Registered: 2002-08-12
Posts: 771
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Re: Slackware the last big distro to have Xfree86 4.4 switches

We'll keep both for the time being, but eventually I'll be moving the X.org package into current and removing Xfree86.  If there's enough need/want for Xfree86, hopefully a TU will pick it up or something.

For the curious, here is Patrick's rationale: http://www.distrowatch.com/weekly.php?issue=20040531#2

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#5 2004-05-31 18:09:17

Dusty
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From: Medicine Hat, Alberta, Canada
Registered: 2004-01-18
Posts: 5,986
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Re: Slackware the last big distro to have Xfree86 4.4 switches

As somebody mentioned, Arch doesn't support the final version of XFree86 anyway, its the last rc before they changed the license.  I don't know why they have Arch on the list. wink  So

I don't know why you're whining anyway, you can use either option right now. Perhaps X.Org will make it into current, but the devs have other stuff to do right now.

Dusty

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#6 2004-06-01 01:52:45

Xentac
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From: Victoria, BC
Registered: 2003-01-17
Posts: 1,797
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Re: Slackware the last big distro to have Xfree86 4.4 switches

Dusty wrote:

As somebody mentioned, Arch doesn't support the final version of XFree86 anyway, its the last rc before they changed the license.  I don't know why they have Arch on the list. wink  So

The reason is because that person was wrong.  I should have corrected them then, but I got busy.  We use the newest version of xfree, with the license changes.


I have discovered that all of mans unhappiness derives from only one source, not being able to sit quietly in a room
- Blaise Pascal

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#7 2004-06-01 02:20:31

Dusty
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From: Medicine Hat, Alberta, Canada
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Re: Slackware the last big distro to have Xfree86 4.4 switches

Xentac wrote:

The reason is because that person was wrong.  I should have corrected them then, but I got busy.  We use the newest version of xfree, with the license changes.

Yeah well, you got around to it. wink

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#8 2004-06-01 08:37:12

zeppelin
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From: Athens, Greece
Registered: 2004-03-05
Posts: 807
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Re: Slackware the last big distro to have Xfree86 4.4 switches

Dusty, man please read the story. read about 4.4 and the license and learn that AL has it and then you can say whining and stuff.
I just said this is bad reputation for AL, and hopefully some of the posters agreed with me.

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#9 2004-06-01 16:06:05

Dusty
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From: Medicine Hat, Alberta, Canada
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Re: Slackware the last big distro to have Xfree86 4.4 switches

Sorry, I didn't mean to argue. This is a topic that means very little to me, actually. I don't care one way or the other, and I don't see how it can give Arch a bad reputation... Is it any different to have packages for XFree86 than j2re, flash, acrobat, etc?

Or are you more worried about them saying we "support" them without them ever asking our consent?  That's kind of annoying, yes. wink

Dusty

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#10 2004-06-01 16:15:52

zeppelin
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From: Athens, Greece
Registered: 2004-03-05
Posts: 807
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Re: Slackware the last big distro to have Xfree86 4.4 switches

Dusty wrote:

Sorry, I didn't mean to argue. This is a topic that means very little to me, actually.  I don't care one way or the other, and I don't see how it can give Arch a bad reputation...

ok but u != world.

Is it any different to have packages for XFree86 than j2re, flash, acrobat, etc?

Hmm one that thinks for 30 seconds thinks this way:
"xfree86 has a fork (because it had in the past a good license). but j2re flash NEVER was GPL-compat and we still don't have a working-the-same implementation". I hope you understand the difference between forking and starting from scratch..

Or are you more worried about them saying we "support" them without them ever asking our consent?  That's kind of annoying, yes. wink

well I mainly say this. and this causes im*H*o bad reputation for Arch.
And maybe read Patrick's techinal-only opinion that you might want to like more [because you don't seem to completely understand what GPL-compatibility standars that derive from (L)GPL & BSD licenses have offered to the FLOSS community and why keeping those licenses widely used is very important]
I bet you don't know that using Xfree 4.4 with KDE and/or GNOME is somehow illegal. because Xfree is not GPL compatible so in fact KDE/GNOME etc cannot directly link to Xfree86 4.4
but if all that is crap {which they aren't} then just read Patrick's story

Dusty

have fun,
zeppelin

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#11 2004-06-01 17:36:35

GuyonAsm
Member
Registered: 2004-05-25
Posts: 49

Re: Slackware the last big distro to have Xfree86 4.4 switches

How hard is this little change from xfree to x.org, will my nvidia drivers still work with it?  :?:

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#12 2004-06-01 17:53:55

Dusty
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From: Medicine Hat, Alberta, Canada
Registered: 2004-01-18
Posts: 5,986
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Re: Slackware the last big distro to have Xfree86 4.4 switches

zeppelin wrote:

but if all that is crap {which they aren't} then just read Patrick's story

first of all, you are so totally right, I better read that article before I delve too deep. Unfortunately, I'm busy at the moment and only have time to dash off a quick reply.

Second, the GPL makes provision for authors to unGPL their code; its legal. Do you have anything against the tux racer crew too?  People should be free to do what they want. I don't like Microsoft software much, but I don't think the worse of them because they don't release it GPL.  GPL isn't God's Public Licence.

Third, if we're being illegal linking GPL apps to XFree86, that's the best reason to change from it.

Fourth, I have no idea why I'm even discussing this cause I don't really disagree with you. Isn't it weird? wink

Dusty

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#13 2004-06-01 18:14:17

scottro
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From: NYC
Registered: 2002-10-11
Posts: 452
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Re: Slackware the last big distro to have Xfree86 4.4 switches

FreeBSD got xorg into its ports the other day, and I've been playing with changing over on some test boxes.  Not quite seamless, but just a few minor glitches--although one does have to read the instructions about making the change.

I prefer the BSD style licensing to GPL, and am not fanatical about the political reasons for changing from XFree to xorg--like Patrick, one wishes the XFree people well, but as our 15 year old with a life stated, soon one gets left in the dust.

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#14 2004-06-01 22:30:27

Zephirias
Member
From: Pennsylvania, USA
Registered: 2004-04-26
Posts: 179

Re: Slackware the last big distro to have Xfree86 4.4 switches

scottro wrote:

FreeBSD got xorg into its ports the other day, and I've been playing with changing over on some test boxes.  Not quite seamless, but just a few minor glitches--although one does have to read the instructions about making the change.

I prefer the BSD style licensing to GPL, and am not fanatical about the political reasons for changing from XFree to xorg--like Patrick, one wishes the XFree people well, but as our 15 year old with a life stated, soon one gets left in the dust.

Hehe, thanks for the reference. I still think that it's good that we're almost all agreeing on this subject, because it'll just make it easier for when we switch. smile


"Technically, you would only need one time traveler convention."

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#15 2004-06-01 22:33:10

Xentac
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From: Victoria, BC
Registered: 2003-01-17
Posts: 1,797
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Re: Slackware the last big distro to have Xfree86 4.4 switches

zeppelin wrote:

I bet you don't know that using Xfree 4.4 with KDE and/or GNOME is somehow illegal. because Xfree is not GPL compatible so in fact KDE/GNOME etc cannot directly link to Xfree86 4.4

I bet you didn't know that that's a common misconception.

The license changes were only applied to internal Xfree86 code, all the client-side library code still has the old licenses because RMS brought up the issue when they proposed the change.

http://xfree86.org/legal/licenses.html

This discussion was brought up when the proposed license was first announced.  I did lots of research there to back my position, please don't force me to do it again.


I have discovered that all of mans unhappiness derives from only one source, not being able to sit quietly in a room
- Blaise Pascal

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#16 2004-06-02 00:41:00

Dusty
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From: Medicine Hat, Alberta, Canada
Registered: 2004-01-18
Posts: 5,986
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Re: Slackware the last big distro to have Xfree86 4.4 switches

Anybody here is willing to take your word for it, Xentac.

Or else! :-D

Dusty

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#17 2004-06-02 01:20:54

sarah31
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From: Middle of Canada
Registered: 2002-08-20
Posts: 2,975
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Re: Slackware the last big distro to have Xfree86 4.4 switches

Xentac,

I wouldn't worry about all the fanatical rambling in this thread. For the record there is absolutely no harm done by arch being "on the list" ..... well unless your reality has been skewed by years of brain washing that everything is a conspiracy.


AKA uknowme

I am not your friend

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#18 2004-06-02 01:49:58

contrasutra
Member
From: New Jersey
Registered: 2003-07-26
Posts: 507

Re: Slackware the last big distro to have Xfree86 4.4 switches

I just wanted to add my support:

Just because a few distros switched, doesn't mean we should just hop on the bandwagon. We're not sheep. wink

I only proposed a switch when the client libraries were going to be under the new license (and thus illegal to link to GPL stuff). Right now XF86 4.4.0 is legal, so I see no problems with it.

Let's use whatever server is technically best until the license issue comes up again.


"Contrary to popular belief, penguins are not the salvation of modern technology.  Neither do they throw parties for the urban proletariat."

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#19 2004-06-02 01:55:24

Zephirias
Member
From: Pennsylvania, USA
Registered: 2004-04-26
Posts: 179

Re: Slackware the last big distro to have Xfree86 4.4 switches

Just because a few distros switched, doesn't mean we should just hop on the bandwagon. We're not sheep.

sheep-2.jpg

Baaaahhhh! tongue  lol


"Technically, you would only need one time traveler convention."

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#20 2004-06-02 02:06:32

cactus
Taco Eater
From: t͈̫̹ͨa͖͕͎̱͈ͨ͆ć̥̖̝o̫̫̼s͈̭̱̞͍̃!̰
Registered: 2004-05-25
Posts: 4,615
Website

Re: Slackware the last big distro to have Xfree86 4.4 switches

roll


"Be conservative in what you send; be liberal in what you accept." -- Postel's Law
"tacos" -- Cactus' Law
"t̥͍͎̪̪͗a̴̻̩͈͚ͨc̠o̩̙͈ͫͅs͙͎̙͊ ͔͇̫̜t͎̳̀a̜̞̗ͩc̗͍͚o̲̯̿s̖̣̤̙͌ ̖̜̈ț̰̫͓ạ̪͖̳c̲͎͕̰̯̃̈o͉ͅs̪ͪ ̜̻̖̜͕" -- -̖͚̫̙̓-̺̠͇ͤ̃ ̜̪̜ͯZ͔̗̭̞ͪA̝͈̙͖̩L͉̠̺͓G̙̞̦͖O̳̗͍

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#21 2004-06-02 04:05:43

aCoder
Member
From: Medina, OH
Registered: 2004-03-07
Posts: 359
Website

Re: Slackware the last big distro to have Xfree86 4.4 switches

Well, since it's a (not really, but should be) contraversial topic, I should throw in my opinion, which, strangely enough, sort of agrees with everyone else.  I like software to be free.  License-wise, XF86=free and Xorg=free.  Of course, people can argue 'free' all they want, but I'm talking free as in $0.  I switched to X for technical reasons.  Various libraries are more up-to-date and more coders are moving to write code for the new tree, and this 16 year old without a life would als like to acknowledge the 15 year old with a life who said that soon one gets left in the dust.  The only thing truer in the open source community may be a widespread love for cheese, sheep, and monkeys.

Of course, this is all secondary to the fact that there is still no readily available, quick, cheap way for me to make swiss cheese! wink


If you develop an ear for sounds that are musical it is like developing an ego. You begin to refuse sounds that are not musical and that way cut yourself off from a good deal of experience.
  - John Cage

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#22 2004-06-02 08:53:55

zeppelin
Member
From: Athens, Greece
Registered: 2004-03-05
Posts: 807
Website

Re: Slackware the last big distro to have Xfree86 4.4 switches

ok I know that. That's why I said somehow illegal.
There is a problem how one understands linking [not here], but in gereral. For example the kernel is GPL, *EVERYTHING* depends in the end on kernel so one can say that no proprietary sw is allowed in Linux-based systems.
Of course I don't agree with this, neither does Linus. But the  whole thing is a gentlemen's agreement

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#23 2004-06-02 13:44:24

i3839
Member
Registered: 2004-02-04
Posts: 1,185

Re: Slackware the last big distro to have Xfree86 4.4 switches

You forget that Xfree uses a client-server design, both use the X11 protocol, so it doesn't matter at all if the server and client code are licence incompatible. It's like a GPL browser that communicates with a GPL incompatible webserver.

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#24 2004-06-02 20:40:03

aCoder
Member
From: Medina, OH
Registered: 2004-03-07
Posts: 359
Website

Re: Slackware the last big distro to have Xfree86 4.4 switches

Which is exactly why an alternative to network transparency is a bad idea.  As is not having cheese readily available at all times and in all places!


If you develop an ear for sounds that are musical it is like developing an ego. You begin to refuse sounds that are not musical and that way cut yourself off from a good deal of experience.
  - John Cage

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#25 2004-06-04 10:59:45

tmadhavan
Member
From: Wales :D
Registered: 2004-03-26
Posts: 441

Re: Slackware the last big distro to have Xfree86 4.4 switches

Think I've been falling behind on this Xfree --> X.org 'controversy'.

What are the main differences between the two, and (as someone asked earlier), how difficult will it be for the average (well not that average, he's using Arch wink ) Joe to switch between the two?

Also (as the same person asked previously), will NVidia drivers still be supported to the same degree, if at all?

Regards,
T.

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