KDEmod=unstable? + What WM/DE would you reccomend for me

JeremyTheWicked · 2008-06-10 22:37:53

Hi guys. I don't want to start a flame war, please.

I am using Arch with KDEmod and I have the impression that this combination is a lot less stable than my previous Ubuntu+Gnome+Compiz (mind you, I am NOT running compiz on Arch anymore). I don't know if this is attributable to KDE or to KDEmod or to Arch - I am currently installing Gnome on Arch in order to check that.

Anyways. Annoyed by the quirks of KDE (like random Konqueror crashes, improper handling of removable media, showing pop-ups like kdesu in the background etc.) I think it's high time I tried some lightweight WM. I've only used Gnome and Fluxbox for a long enough time to have an opinion on them - I am waiting for your opinions.

What I am looking for:

1) Simplicity - I'm fed of Gnome/KDE running a bazillion services I've never asked for and then randomly crashing them

2) Beauty - what kept me from trying lightweight options so far was that they all seem to look plain ugly (judging from screenshots). I never managed to get my Fluxbox to look the way I wanted. Do you know any WMs with really good themes?

3) Stability - compiz is not an option: no more crashes please!

4) An elegant way to manage my open windows - I love the Expose effect but I am not sure if I can get it to work without compositing (actually I'm using the old and unmaintained Kompose to avoid compiz and still have that in my KDEmod). I also love docks (FYI: yes, I am a former Mac user ). I like avant-window-navigator, e.g., but it doesn't run without compositing (and the Arch package is a mess anyway - when I find the time to examine it I'll contact the maintainer).

So: waiting for your opinions.

elocal · 2008-06-10 22:58:01

openbox + xcompmgr + awn, or some other lightweight combination if that is your goal.
maybe there should be "openbox+" which would have its own compositing stuff and maybe optional statusbar/dock...

JeremyTheWicked · 2008-06-10 23:08:22

What is xcompmgr? I'll give it a shot

LTSmash · 2008-06-11 02:25:41

JeremyTheWicked wrote:

What is xcompmgr? I'll give it a shot

A basic (seriously) composite manager... it supports some shadows and little more stuff...

JeremyTheWicked · 2008-06-11 02:39:29

I've tried this combination and I think I might use it - this xcompmgr thingy is just enough to get AWN running. It's a pity that the AWN-extras package is broken in AUR.

I installed Gnome as well: it's more stable than KDE here. And it supports my multimedia keys out of the box (never managed to get them all working in KDE).

tesjo · 2008-06-11 03:03:37

I've got to recommend XFCE here it is light (not minimal) and it has built in compositing if you like.

JeremyTheWicked · 2008-06-11 03:09:06

tesjo wrote:

I've got to recommend XFCE here it is light (not minimal) and it has built in compositing if you like.

I installed XFCE once... It is nice I guess. What are the differences between XFCE and Openbox?

tesjo · 2008-06-11 03:17:59

Well XFCE is a DE and open box a WM. I dont have much experience with openbox though. With XCFE you can start with a default install that has a panel, and menus and such with out need for much customizing to get going. Then you've got DE programs like the file manager Thunar, and a settings manager that are included.

I like fluxbox as well, but always come back to XFCE for me it is the right balance of integrated apps, and lightness so I can just get some work done.

underpenguin · 2008-06-11 04:15:34

I vote for XFCE. It may not be the best looking without a bit of work, but usability and stability definitely get a top-notch rating. It is fairly light, but still offers unified configuration GUI, etc. It's a happy medium for me between the KDE/Gnome and Openbox/Awesome/other super light DEs.

dyscoria · 2008-06-11 12:16:26

I'm surprised at the problems you're having with kdemod. I'm using it (kde3mod, not the kde4 version) and everything is perfectly stable. If you like compositing AND light then I would go for Xfce for the moment as that is pretty much the most stable compositing you can get (as its built in). I don't like compiz all that much and kwin has a little way to go yet. It's also damn easy to customize, whereas WM's take a little time to configure.

Just realized that your username is an obscure reference to a Pearl Jam song. I was sure i heard it somewhere before

JeremyTheWicked · 2008-06-11 12:33:10

I'm using KDE3mod. I got tired of KDE4 after 5 minutes (gotta wait till it's production ready). I'm surprised at the problems I'm having no less than you are

For the time being I'm experimenting with openbox. If I don't like it I'll go for XFCE. Although it's a little annoying b/c 90% of apps I'm using now are KDE based.

pelle.k · 2008-06-11 12:57:00

I'm surprised at the problems I'm having no less than you are

I'm not. KDE3 is a sinking ship. The codebase is a mess, and that is *the* reason the developers went with KDE4.
I got fed up with kde quite a while ago. But i don't think kdemod is any worse. It's quite good actually.

anykey · 2008-06-11 13:51:11

if kde3 is a sinking ship, they should get their act together and release a goddamn STABLE 4 one. just my 2 cents. back in the day, calling things "<major number>.0" was meaning "it is READY and EVERYTHING WORKS AS PLANNED", until Microsoft and some stupid game designers went ahead giving it the meaning "<major number>.0" means "we want to sell it right now". What the hell are they thinking? Do point-zero numbers actually make this better? How about KDE4 beta, which were alphas?

Ridiculous, like kindergarten, those statements saying 3 is dead if 4 is stillborn (yes, STILLBORN!) as of now. You cannot even file bug reports because you don't freaking know *what* crashed when something crashed, so where do you file that damn bug?, and I tested subversion builds of kde4 until some days ago!

I apologize for sounding rude, but it is just... unprofessional.

Last edited by anykey (2008-06-11 13:53:37)

JeremyTheWicked · 2008-06-11 14:04:54

lmao

That's why I began my first post with "no flame war please". IMO there are VERY few things in the Linux world that are developed in a professional way. Look at the kernel: how professional was it to change the naming of IDE disks to sd*? Etc.

When I come to think of it, I love a lot of KDE apps: Kontact, amaroK, K3b and company... and KLaptop is the only app to suspend my computer correctly... Maybe I should learn to code and write my own lightweight WM in Qt

alex_anthony · 2008-06-11 14:26:12

If you're using GNOME right now, you could try the Metacity compositor. (In gconf-editor)
and could you have a Qt WM? I don't think so - you can use QT in any WM as is, Qt manages whats in the window, the WM sorts out borders etc

staple · 2008-06-11 16:40:19

kde 4 is really light on resources. i'm not sure what more you could want from a traditional DE

anykey · 2008-06-11 16:47:29

I was just reacting to the posting saying kde3 was dead, which it clearly isn't while kde4 isn't even "stable" yet.

I also was bitter about the abuse of point-zero release numbers.

JeremyTheWicked · 2008-06-11 18:21:19

alex_anthony wrote:

If you're using GNOME right now, you could try the Metacity compositor. (In gconf-editor)
and could you have a Qt WM? I don't think so - you can use QT in any WM as is, Qt manages whats in the window, the WM sorts out borders etc

Isn't KWin written in Qt?

Anyway. I've tried GNOME w/ Metacity. It's working pretty nice. I've always had the feeling that GNOME's way is the way to go, not KDE's: no bloat, no revolution, just steady improvement.

Openbox is way to problematic - e.g., when I used the template autostart.sh Openbox would crash on every start. Sometimes the buttons in GTK apps were unusable.

staple wrote:

kde 4 is really light on resources. i'm not sure what more you could want from a traditional DE

You don't know, so I'll tell you: it's stability I want. I really like the new technologies in KDE4 but I'm not a teenager using his computer to play (when I was I didn't care for stability). I need a reliable desktop experience. And I'm not using KDE4 until it stops crashing every 10 minutes.

Edit: I've re-read your post and it is actually the same thing you said, isn't it.

Last edited by JeremyTheWicked (2008-06-11 18:35:25)

pelle.k · 2008-06-11 18:42:31

I was just reacting to the posting saying kde3 was dead, which it clearly isn't while kde4 isn't even "stable" yet.

I guess i'm to blame for that
I love kde, it's just the state of kde3 that puts me off. Nothing less, nothing more. For me, it's a sinking ship. I didn't mean to get people fired up like that. hehe!

fuscia · 2008-06-11 21:44:03

if you're looking for elegance in window management, i'd suggest one of the tiling wm's. some of them have a variety of schemes for laying out the opening of additional apps, rather than just piling them all on top of one another as is the case with the traditional 'float' wm's. for pretty, take a look at the inda themes for pekwm. with something like dwm (a tiling wm), there are so little moving parts in it, it can't help but be rock solid (ok, that might have been a little too emotional).

JeremyTheWicked · 2008-06-12 14:34:41

fuscia wrote:

if you're looking for elegance in window management, i'd suggest one of the tiling wm's. some of them have a variety of schemes for laying out the opening of additional apps, rather than just piling them all on top of one another as is the case with the traditional 'float' wm's. for pretty, take a look at the inda themes for pekwm. with something like dwm (a tiling wm), there are so little moving parts in it, it can't help but be rock solid (ok, that might have been a little too emotional).

I think I never heard of that. What is a "tiling" wm?

alex_anthony · 2008-06-12 22:33:52

A WM which organises your windows automagically to fit your screen (Like tiles)
I haven't tried one, but I would like to.

Last edited by alex_anthony (2008-06-12 22:34:24)

JeremyTheWicked · 2008-06-12 22:50:51

Now I get it. Given that I have a lot of things open all the time, including a virtual machine with WinXP this is a no go.

shazeal · 2008-06-13 01:06:57

You could try Compiz Fusion as a standalone WM, the "bugginess" you had could be attributed to the KDE/Compiz integration?

Ive tried KDE - made me want to beat my computer with a club.
Gnome - Too heavy, loads of crap I dont want.
Gnome w/Compiz - As above but even more bugs.
Fluxbox - Too... old.
Openbox w/xcompmgr - Great but xcompmgr is annoying with some programs, and fade option still has a memory leak in 1.1.4. I would still use it but I really like some of the compiz options expo/scale/emerald.
Compiz Standalone - Loving it, much faster than gnome/compiz, not a single crash/problem (so far ), I like the whole CCSM/Deskmenu not having to hack bloody xml files to get things right. I never tried the Arch packages for compiz so I cant really comment on them stability wise, I use my own git builds.

For me compiz fusion standalone wins hands down, its got the eye candy, its actually pretty light not as light as any of the box options for sure, but it has so much more functionality.

JeremyTheWicked · 2008-06-13 07:45:11

That's interesting. What do I have to put in my .xinitrc to get a standalone Compiz session?

For now I'm back to Gnome - it uses on average 300MB RAM less than KDE, even though I am using loads of qt apps.

Arch Linux

#1 2008-06-10 22:37:53

KDEmod=unstable? + What WM/DE would you reccomend for me

#2 2008-06-10 22:58:01

Re: KDEmod=unstable? + What WM/DE would you reccomend for me

#3 2008-06-10 23:08:22

Re: KDEmod=unstable? + What WM/DE would you reccomend for me

#4 2008-06-11 02:25:41

Re: KDEmod=unstable? + What WM/DE would you reccomend for me

#5 2008-06-11 02:39:29

Re: KDEmod=unstable? + What WM/DE would you reccomend for me

#6 2008-06-11 03:03:37

Re: KDEmod=unstable? + What WM/DE would you reccomend for me

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Re: KDEmod=unstable? + What WM/DE would you reccomend for me

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Re: KDEmod=unstable? + What WM/DE would you reccomend for me

#9 2008-06-11 04:15:34

Re: KDEmod=unstable? + What WM/DE would you reccomend for me

#10 2008-06-11 12:16:26

Re: KDEmod=unstable? + What WM/DE would you reccomend for me

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Re: KDEmod=unstable? + What WM/DE would you reccomend for me

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Re: KDEmod=unstable? + What WM/DE would you reccomend for me

#13 2008-06-11 13:51:11

Re: KDEmod=unstable? + What WM/DE would you reccomend for me

#14 2008-06-11 14:04:54

Re: KDEmod=unstable? + What WM/DE would you reccomend for me

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Re: KDEmod=unstable? + What WM/DE would you reccomend for me

#16 2008-06-11 16:40:19

Re: KDEmod=unstable? + What WM/DE would you reccomend for me

#17 2008-06-11 16:47:29

Re: KDEmod=unstable? + What WM/DE would you reccomend for me

#18 2008-06-11 18:21:19

Re: KDEmod=unstable? + What WM/DE would you reccomend for me

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Re: KDEmod=unstable? + What WM/DE would you reccomend for me

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Re: KDEmod=unstable? + What WM/DE would you reccomend for me

#21 2008-06-12 14:34:41

Re: KDEmod=unstable? + What WM/DE would you reccomend for me

#22 2008-06-12 22:33:52

Re: KDEmod=unstable? + What WM/DE would you reccomend for me

#23 2008-06-12 22:50:51

Re: KDEmod=unstable? + What WM/DE would you reccomend for me

#24 2008-06-13 01:06:57

Re: KDEmod=unstable? + What WM/DE would you reccomend for me

#25 2008-06-13 07:45:11

Re: KDEmod=unstable? + What WM/DE would you reccomend for me

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