updates from non-maintainers?

Jacek Poplawski · 2008-06-26 09:57:36

I use Linux since 1998, I use Arch at home and at work since January 2006.

Is there any way someone can became maintainer and update outdated packages in [core]/[extra]? Could we create new repository called [updates] with updates from people?

There is problem with Arch because some packages are not updated for a long time, even, when required effort is not big, I think it's because maintainers are busy with something else. So I have a choice: install something "raw" without pacman or create package myself and install it until new package is available. In both cases any other person still have same problem as me.

Can you allow to put such packages into AUR? If I remember correctly it's forbidden to duplicate packages there.

To me, most important packages currenty in such state are wine and xf86-video-ati. But in a longer time - there are more, it's a common problem.

Last edited by Jacek Poplawski (2008-06-26 09:58:25)

Stythys · 2008-06-26 10:06:35

forget it...nobody but devs are going to have access to core and extra. If you want to maintain some updated packages yourself, go ahead and create your own repo. That's about the best you can do.

Barrucadu · 2008-06-26 10:07:28

You could update the package and send it to the original maintainer, or even stick it in the AUR with a different name.

Mr.Elendig · 2008-06-26 10:39:18

Barrucadu wrote:

You could update the package and send it to the original maintainer, or even stick it in the AUR with a different name.

The firts is good, the second is bad. Versionbumping of pkg's in the repos are not allowed. Anyway, if you want a newer version, it's simple to just grab the pkgbuild, bump the version and build.
But enough of that, here is my main points:

Most pkg's ain't out of date. The percentage is realy small.
In many cases where pkgs are out of date, the newer version don't have any major bugfix or important security fix or feature.
In some other cases, like azureus, the up to date version depends on some other pkg, that are a -devel version, or not in the repos at all. E.g. azureus depends on a beta release of swt.
In some other cases, (and partly true for e.g. azureus) there is realy little intrest in the pkg, both from the devs and the community, and therefor it recives a low priority (or are even moved to [community].

The biggest problem latly, imo, are all the people with a papercut on their pinky that are yelling that they cut of their arm and are dying.

Is the updatecycle a bit slow at the moment? yes

Is it something that should make you say "zomg arch devs sucks, arch isn't rolling, arch needs new leadership, bhla bhla bhla!" no

Should we allow anyone and their grandmother to trow up binary pkg's, that we have no way to check for harmfull crap, into the official repos? no

Oh, and there is the small fact that two new pakagers have been apointed, and that you should't be supriced if 2-3 more gets on the team too.
Be patient, things change. And if you don't like a pkg, just rebuild it yourself. (and if it adds extra features, make a feature req, if it''s just a version bump, send an email to the mantainer)

Last edited by Mr.Elendig (2008-06-26 10:41:10)

iphitus · 2008-06-26 10:40:26

Big change, email the maintainer with new PKGBUILDs

Small change (verbump), there's ABS.

Feel free to start your own site or pastebin with updated PKBUILDS. But just do it, rather than talking about it.

Jacek Poplawski · 2008-06-26 12:37:23

Mr.Elendig why are you so angry?

Allan · 2008-06-26 12:55:03

Jacek Poplawski wrote:

Mr.Elendig why are you so angry?

It is comments like this:

Jacek Poplawski wrote:

There is problem with Arch because some packages are not updated for a long time

Especially the mention of wine that has been done to death on the forums lately....

Misfit138 · 2008-06-26 13:07:44

Don't use 'raw' versions, just utilize ABS, as was mentioned. It's very simple and it gives control of the created package to pacman.

Jacek Poplawski · 2008-06-26 13:21:47

I know ABS, I created some game packages in AUR (like rocksndiamonds) but my name has been removed from them.

Mr.Elendig · 2008-06-26 13:51:59

Jacek Poplawski wrote:

Mr.Elendig why are you so angry?

I'm sorry if you think I sound angry, I'm not.

I'm just getting a tiny bit frustrated with having 20 threds all basicly saying the same, just in a tiny bit different wording. Specialy when most of them are over-reacting and/or not based on reality.

If you would listen to all the complaints as of late, one would think that not one pkg in the repo was up to date, and that you would have to reinstall after every -Syu, cause of breakage, something that is not true at all.
The majority of the packages are up to date, there is only a realy small percentage that isn't. And more often than not, from what I've seen, the reason that they are not, are of a technical sort. Let me refer to azureus again:
The pkg in the repo is damn old. Build Date : Sun 26 Aug 2007 15:28:45 CEST for the i686 version. (strangely noone have been spamming the forum with threds about this one...) But, there is a perfectly good reason for it not to be updated at the moment, and the reason is this:
It depends on a beta/devel release of swt, and as a general rule, there will be no beta/devel/unstable packages in core and extra. This could be easily fixed by moving azureus to unstable, and add the newest swt to unstable too. But, there hasn't been an intrest from the community to do so, so it gets low on the priority list compared to more important packages. The same is partly true for wine, and some other pkg's, but in those cases people have been just screaming all over the bbs and irc, instead of doing what they should do, namly helping the devs with updating the pkgbuilds and testing.

And at the end, a fun fact: In many cases, it takes the same amount of time to write a complaint about some outdated pkg on the forum, as it takes to update the pkgbuild and rebuild the pkg.
And guess what will get the problem solved fastest...

Last edited by Mr.Elendig (2008-06-26 13:53:48)

Mr.Elendig · 2008-06-26 14:24:30

Ok, I'm actualy going to make an on-topic post too:

If you are a non-dev, and you want to help out, here is some ways to do it:
1 Review/update/edit/add to the wiki.
2 Test stuff. Both in [testing] and the other repos. File bugs, and as far as you can, depending on skill and time, research and try to come up with a fix.
3 Don't ignore bugs. See 2
4 Help others. On the forum, the mailing list, the bug tracker and on irc. If the devs don't have to do support all day long, they get more time to actualy do 'stuff'.
5 Mail info, patches, suggetsions, other stuff about a pkg you like/want to the mantainer. They ain't big ugly monsters, they won't eat you alive, and leave the bones for the birds.

Edit: Having users being allowed to directly work with core, extra etc is imo a bad idea. Talk to the mantainer of the pkg you are intrested in instead.
And if you want to contribute to [community], apply to become a TU .

Last edited by Mr.Elendig (2008-06-26 14:26:07)

pressh · 2008-06-26 14:48:29

Mr.Elendig wrote:

And if you want to contribute to [community], apply to become a TU .

yes, but be aware that we ARE big ugly monsters that will eat you alive. Maybe, if the birds are very lucky, they may have your bones, but we may as well eat them too

no seriously, start contributing to AUR, maintain packages there. There are a lot of orphans and packages that are not updated for a long time. Contact the maintainer saying you want to maintain that package, and if you get no respond ask for a TU to orphan it via the aur-general ML.
If you think you've done enough to become a TU, start looking for a TU to sponsor you. I'm a bit dissapointed in the number of people that want to become a TU, hearing that ~40 people have applied to become a maintainer of packages in extra...

Last edited by pressh (2008-06-26 18:06:23)

phrakture · 2008-06-26 17:40:32

Guys, if you missed the Frontpage news, we are aware of the lack of manpower. Painfully aware - you guys all piss and moan and yell constantly, and we hear it all. We're working on it and pulling on new devs soon, so don't fear.

Jacek Poplawski · 2008-06-26 18:08:40

If there is lack of manpower then why you refuse help?

Cerebral · 2008-06-26 18:54:49

Jacek Poplawski wrote:

If there is lack of manpower then why you refuse help?

.... what? Did you even look at the front page? Here, I'll even give you a link: http://www.archlinux.org/news/397/ <-- does that look like "refusing help"?

Misfit138 · 2008-06-26 18:54:52

Jacek Poplawski wrote:

If there is lack of manpower then why you refuse help?

We're working on it and pulling on new devs soon, so don't fear.

Dusty · 2008-06-26 20:00:38

Its funny how this thread went off topic. The original question was 'can updates be kept in a separate repository' and has nothing to do with how often packages in [core] and [extra] are updated.

The answer to that question is yes, of course. Anybody can make a repository and store updated packages in there. All you need is a web host and instructions. The instructions are in the wiki, I think its a great idea too, it'd be great to see a user-contributed repository like this. You could even borrow the AUR software and use it as an interface for people to provide updated packages. This would be an excellent starter project for you.

Dusty

peets · 2008-06-26 20:01:24

Guys.

From what I can tell, Jacek is saying "hey, I updated some packages myself. What is the best way to share my work?"

And I think Iphitus answered well:

Big change, email the maintainer with new PKGBUILDs
Small change (verbump), there's ABS.

Let's not bicker.

Oh, thanks Dusty!

Last edited by peets (2008-06-26 20:03:42)

Jacek Poplawski · 2008-06-26 20:22:01

Thank you Dusty and peets

Arch Linux

#1 2008-06-26 09:57:36

updates from non-maintainers?

#2 2008-06-26 10:06:35

Re: updates from non-maintainers?

#3 2008-06-26 10:07:28

Re: updates from non-maintainers?

#4 2008-06-26 10:39:18

Re: updates from non-maintainers?

#5 2008-06-26 10:40:26

Re: updates from non-maintainers?

#6 2008-06-26 12:37:23

Re: updates from non-maintainers?

#7 2008-06-26 12:55:03

Re: updates from non-maintainers?

#8 2008-06-26 13:07:44

Re: updates from non-maintainers?

#9 2008-06-26 13:21:47

Re: updates from non-maintainers?

#10 2008-06-26 13:51:59

Re: updates from non-maintainers?

#11 2008-06-26 14:24:30

Re: updates from non-maintainers?

#12 2008-06-26 14:48:29

Re: updates from non-maintainers?

#13 2008-06-26 17:40:32

Re: updates from non-maintainers?

#14 2008-06-26 18:08:40

Re: updates from non-maintainers?

#15 2008-06-26 18:54:49

Re: updates from non-maintainers?

#16 2008-06-26 18:54:52

Re: updates from non-maintainers?

#17 2008-06-26 20:00:38

Re: updates from non-maintainers?

#18 2008-06-26 20:01:24

Re: updates from non-maintainers?

#19 2008-06-26 20:22:01

Re: updates from non-maintainers?

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