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#1 2004-06-13 05:39:22

leejpar
Member
From: Texas, USA
Registered: 2004-05-28
Posts: 51
Website

Let's help move Arch up the ranking at Distrowatch!

I have been going there everyday now for a couple weeks from work and at home. Arch has moved from around 30th to 25th on the list for the last month now. I would like to see it in the top 20 list myself!


Linux Registered User #337161
'It's free. It works. Duh.'" - Eric Harrison

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#2 2004-06-13 08:52:41

sarah31
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From: Middle of Canada
Registered: 2002-08-20
Posts: 2,975
Website

Re: Let's help move Arch up the ranking at Distrowatch!

not meaning to be rude ..... but why does this matter. i liked arch when very few used it and i like it now. it matters more to me that it works than where the hell it is ranked on some site that i never go to or care about. ultimately arch should be judged not where it is on a list but by how functional it is ( and no neither are correlated)


AKA uknowme

I am not your friend

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#3 2004-06-13 11:11:41

Mork II
Member
From: Visby, Sweden
Registered: 2003-05-14
Posts: 87

Re: Let's help move Arch up the ranking at Distrowatch!

Repeatedly visitng distro pages on Distrowatch from the same ip-ranges will get noticed. A few people tried to do that to Gentoo a year or so back. The Distrowatch admin noticed this and dropped Gentoos ranking and chasticed the Gentoo fans for doing this in his weekly newsletter....

In conclusion: Please don't do this, it will only lead to bad press. I think Arch is growing at a quite comfortable speed anyways.

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#4 2004-06-13 17:10:15

Dusty
Schwag Merchant
From: Medicine Hat, Alberta, Canada
Registered: 2004-01-18
Posts: 5,986
Website

Re: Let's help move Arch up the ranking at Distrowatch!

Arch is growing too fast. It was supposed to be for people that knew what they are doing or want to learn what they are doing, and now everybody expects it to be what they tell the devs it should be.

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#5 2004-06-13 17:12:44

Mr Green
Forum Fellow
From: U.K.
Registered: 2003-12-21
Posts: 5,750

Re: Let's help move Arch up the ranking at Distrowatch!

Err maybe we should vote for other distros instead, start a reverse trend...no one will see that one coming lol


Mr Green


Mr Green

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#6 2004-06-13 17:30:01

Zephirias
Member
From: Pennsylvania, USA
Registered: 2004-04-26
Posts: 179

Re: Let's help move Arch up the ranking at Distrowatch!

I think Arch is growing fine, and considering it's been around two years, the sign of growth finally starting is a good thing, IMO.


"Technically, you would only need one time traveler convention."

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#7 2004-06-13 17:37:37

Xentac
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From: Victoria, BC
Registered: 2003-01-17
Posts: 1,797
Website

Re: Let's help move Arch up the ranking at Distrowatch!

Zephirias wrote:

I think Arch is growing fine, and considering it's been around two years, the sign of growth finally starting is a good thing, IMO.

Ahhh... I see... the sign of growth...

After all, you can really see the trends after using it for 2 months.

I hate to say it, but you talk like you know what you're talking about, even though you really don't.  You're not a dev.  You don't understand how this all works.  You don't know me!  You can't judge me!

There, I said it.  That wasn't so bad, was it?


I have discovered that all of mans unhappiness derives from only one source, not being able to sit quietly in a room
- Blaise Pascal

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#8 2004-06-13 17:52:35

Zephirias
Member
From: Pennsylvania, USA
Registered: 2004-04-26
Posts: 179

Re: Let's help move Arch up the ranking at Distrowatch!

Xentac wrote:
Zephirias wrote:

I think Arch is growing fine, and considering it's been around two years, the sign of growth finally starting is a good thing, IMO.

Ahhh... I see... the sign of growth...

After all, you can really see the trends after using it for 2 months.

I hate to say it, but you talk like you know what you're talking about, even though you really don't.  You're not a dev.  You don't understand how this all works.  You don't know me!  You can't judge me!

There, I said it.  That wasn't so bad, was it?

:cry:  :cry:  :cry:  :cry:

You hurt my feelings...but don't worry, I'm probably going to help in Documentation a lot over this summer, anyway. wink


"Technically, you would only need one time traveler convention."

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#9 2004-06-13 18:06:44

dp
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From: Zürich, Switzerland
Registered: 2003-05-27
Posts: 3,366
Website

Re: Let's help move Arch up the ranking at Distrowatch!

actually, it's not that good to be very popular


The impossible missions are the only ones which succeed.

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#10 2004-06-13 19:51:54

Zephirias
Member
From: Pennsylvania, USA
Registered: 2004-04-26
Posts: 179

Re: Let's help move Arch up the ranking at Distrowatch!

dp wrote:

actually, it's not that good to be very popular

Not always. There can be some benefits, like we get more Users on the Forums to help solve problems. same with the IRC.


"Technically, you would only need one time traveler convention."

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#11 2004-06-13 19:58:32

leejpar
Member
From: Texas, USA
Registered: 2004-05-28
Posts: 51
Website

Re: Let's help move Arch up the ranking at Distrowatch!

Did not mean to "hit a nerve"!

Distrowatch is where I learned about Archlinux, and where many folks check the latest news concerning Linux distro's; especially while trying to figure out which one to choose. In the past, Distrowatch counted every click to a disto's page from their site, but this procedure has been changed to only allow one recorded click per a visitor IP.  So, it is within the present rules of their site to visit the Archlinux site once per day or IP.

On another note, I hate to see Archlinux users ridicule the developers who serve them. I for one appreciate their hard work in providing the many packages they do. To take Archlinux forward, this social behavior in the community must stop! How about a little gratitude or even volunteers to help in testing!

Lee


Linux Registered User #337161
'It's free. It works. Duh.'" - Eric Harrison

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#12 2004-06-13 20:58:47

Xentac
Forum Fellow
From: Victoria, BC
Registered: 2003-01-17
Posts: 1,797
Website

Re: Let's help move Arch up the ranking at Distrowatch!

Zephirias wrote:
dp wrote:

actually, it's not that good to be very popular

Not always. There can be some benefits, like we get more Users on the Forums to help solve problems. same with the IRC.

That is true, but there are orders of magnitude more users that ask questions than answer them.  So adding more users just means that there will be a larger number of question asking, non-researching, loud mouthing, fix-the-distro-to-be-the-way-I-want-it, whiny users.


I have discovered that all of mans unhappiness derives from only one source, not being able to sit quietly in a room
- Blaise Pascal

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#13 2004-06-13 21:13:22

Dusty
Schwag Merchant
From: Medicine Hat, Alberta, Canada
Registered: 2004-01-18
Posts: 5,986
Website

Re: Let's help move Arch up the ranking at Distrowatch!

Xentac! I'm astonished. I skip out on the forum for a few days and you start saying things I've always wanted to say! Congratulations!

*hero worship begins here*

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#14 2004-06-13 21:21:21

dp
Member
From: Zürich, Switzerland
Registered: 2003-05-27
Posts: 3,366
Website

Re: Let's help move Arch up the ranking at Distrowatch!

Xentac wrote:

...  whiny users.

:-) exactly what i meant


The impossible missions are the only ones which succeed.

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#15 2004-06-13 23:53:40

beniro
Member
From: St. Petersburg, FL, USA
Registered: 2002-12-31
Posts: 312

Re: Let's help move Arch up the ranking at Distrowatch!

I can see why people may not want Arch to change or reach that upper echelon of Distros, but as long as Arch remains true to its original ideals, new users can never be a bad thing.  It's what happens to quality software.  smile

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#16 2004-06-14 00:27:40

Dusty
Schwag Merchant
From: Medicine Hat, Alberta, Canada
Registered: 2004-01-18
Posts: 5,986
Website

Re: Let's help move Arch up the ranking at Distrowatch!

beniro wrote:

I can see why people may not want Arch to change or reach that upper echelon of Distros, but as long as Arch remains true to its original ideals, new users can never be a bad thing.

Its remaining true to the original ideals that is difficult; new users come in and make demands and decisions have to be made whether those demands are in accordance with the ideals, and whether the ideals need to be changed in order to please the public.

Dusty

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#17 2004-06-14 07:59:16

sweiss
Member
Registered: 2004-02-16
Posts: 635

Re: Let's help move Arch up the ranking at Distrowatch!

I really don't understand all those developers whining about new users. It is all YOUR fault anyway, nobody told you to develop such a fine distribution.

And on a more serious note pure of ass-kissing, I myself have never checked DistroWatch out when looking for a new distro. I think popularity comes in different ways, like reviews and rummors.

Even though I do not know anything about Arch's development, I think that currently a lot of users may possess a problem, but once the new packaging scheme is activated and the devs will be cleared of packaging concerns, new users will not cause a shock.

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#18 2004-06-14 15:07:55

Zephirias
Member
From: Pennsylvania, USA
Registered: 2004-04-26
Posts: 179

Re: Let's help move Arch up the ranking at Distrowatch!

sweiss wrote:

I really don't understand all those developers whining about new users. It is all YOUR fault anyway, nobody told you to develop such a fine distribution.

And on a more serious note pure of ass-kissing, I myself have never checked DistroWatch out when looking for a new distro. I think popularity comes in different ways, like reviews and rummors.

Even though I do not know anything about Arch's development, I think that currently a lot of users may possess a problem, but once the new packaging scheme is activated and the devs will be cleared of packaging concerns, new users will not cause a shock.

That's exactly right. I mean, if the distro's good, people will use it. I mean, look at the growth in the past 2 months or so...it's been a lot.


"Technically, you would only need one time traveler convention."

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#19 2004-06-14 15:30:33

sarah31
Member
From: Middle of Canada
Registered: 2002-08-20
Posts: 2,975
Website

Re: Let's help move Arch up the ranking at Distrowatch!

sweiss wrote:

but once the new packaging scheme is activated and the devs will be cleared of packaging concerns, new users will not cause a shock.

new packaging scheme? do you mean repository adjustment? i haven't heard of changes to packaging .. i mean that would involve changing pacman then too.

as long as there are users that "have problem" (and there always will be) devs or whoever is maintaining packages will always get the complaints.  as far as i am concerned tha new repository changes could be very disasterous if the developers simply tunwe out what is happening in the unofficial repos.  as far as i am concern whether they are labelled unofficial or not as long as they are recognized by "official" arch in any way then people will always consider them to be under the responsibility of the developers.

as for devs "whining" about users. yeah it happens alot here but it is a product of devs often trying to defend themselves against  false accusations. i know wheni was maintaining packages i took alot of shit and i still do/will. if i took the steps to defend my actions or opinions i got further accused of this and that. it wasn't fun and was one of the reasons i quit. that being said unless a user is being a jerk i see no reason to complain about them.

ultimately i have always maintained and still do that i don't care how many people use arch or even linux in general. i use it and like it and no one can change that so why should i care what anyone else says. however, if you want to personally attack me or the people i have worked with then be ready to fight. the maintainer of distrowatch accused me of caring for the distro and i do but it is not so much for the distro itself as much as it is for the people who work on it.  for some reason people have the bad habit of attacking the people and not the product ...... and there is a difference.


AKA uknowme

I am not your friend

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#20 2004-06-14 16:23:36

Dusty
Schwag Merchant
From: Medicine Hat, Alberta, Canada
Registered: 2004-01-18
Posts: 5,986
Website

Re: Let's help move Arch up the ranking at Distrowatch!

sarah31 wrote:

i took alot of shit and i still do/will.

And thank you for that cause it takes a bit of the heat off.

that being said unless a user is being a jerk i see no reason to complain about them.

I love the users that read the docs.  What docs, you ask? Ok, I'm projecting into the future...

ultimately i have always maintained and still do that i don't care how many people use arch or even linux in general. i use it and like it and no one can change that so why should i care what anyone else says. however, if you want to personally attack me or the people i have worked with then be ready to fight. the maintainer of distrowatch accused me of caring for the distro and i do but it is not so much for the distro itself as much as it is for the people who work on it.  for some reason people have the bad habit of attacking the people and not the product ...... and there is a difference.

You're great Sarah, you really are.  When I get around to developing an invitation only version of Arch, you get invited. :-D

Dusty

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#21 2004-06-14 16:47:46

contrasutra
Member
From: New Jersey
Registered: 2003-07-26
Posts: 507

Re: Let's help move Arch up the ranking at Distrowatch!

Xentac: I'm a little surprised by that outburst. Zephirias didn't say anything that inflammatory.

Im pretty bias, but I don't think Arch really needs to grow. Arch is perfect for me, so who cares what others want. tongue

As for the developers complaining about users, when you make a public distro, expect people to criticize it. If you really meant "I made this distro for myself", you would have only kept it for yourself! I'm not saying the devs have to be servants to the users, but I think the devs ARE doing this for their egos, even if a little.

Arch should try to fit their users, but only the niche of users the devs want to support. Don't try to alienate that niche, and screw everyone else. wink


"Contrary to popular belief, penguins are not the salvation of modern technology.  Neither do they throw parties for the urban proletariat."

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#22 2004-06-14 16:57:16

sarah31
Member
From: Middle of Canada
Registered: 2002-08-20
Posts: 2,975
Website

Re: Let's help move Arch up the ranking at Distrowatch!

contrasutra wrote:

As for the developers complaining about users, when you make a public distro, expect people to criticize it. If you really meant "I made this distro for myself", you would have only kept it for yourself! I'm not saying the devs have to be servants to the users, but I think the devs ARE doing this for their egos, even if a little.

very true. except i would dispute the ego thing just a bit. i know that many devs put in their time to give something back to both the distro and linux (since many of them claim they have no cash to financially support it)


AKA uknowme

I am not your friend

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#23 2004-06-14 19:06:12

sweiss
Member
Registered: 2004-02-16
Posts: 635

Re: Let's help move Arch up the ranking at Distrowatch!

sarah31 wrote:
sweiss wrote:

but once the new packaging scheme is activated and the devs will be cleared of packaging concerns, new users will not cause a shock.

new packaging scheme? do you mean repository adjustment? i haven't heard of changes to packaging .. i mean that would involve changing pacman then too.

Meant the respitory adjustments, of course. My bad.

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#24 2004-06-14 21:43:40

xerxes2
Member
From: Malmoe, Sweden
Registered: 2004-04-23
Posts: 1,249
Website

Re: Let's help move Arch up the ranking at Distrowatch!

Xentac wrote:

That is true, but there are orders of magnitude more users that ask questions than answer them. So adding more users just means that there will be a larger number of question asking, non-researching, loud mouthing, fix-the-distro-to-be-the-way-I-want-it, whiny users.

Dusty wrote:

Arch is growing too fast. It was supposed to be for people that knew what they are doing or want to learn what they are doing, and now everybody expects it to be what they tell the devs it should be.

Most people know about this, don't they? Maybe some people whine about broken packages but that has nothing to do with arch philosophy. The devs are working hard for arch, of course they want people to use it. But if they think that there are to many "non-researching, loud mouthing newbies" it could help to write that part about arch beeing a distro for "people that are not afraid of CLI" in bigger letters.  wink

Zephirias wrote:

You hurt my feelings...but don't worry, I'm probably going to help in Documentation a lot over this summer, anyway.

I think you are cool, Z. You are a coming man. big_smile


arch + gentoo + initng + python = enlisy

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#25 2004-06-15 01:57:14

Zephirias
Member
From: Pennsylvania, USA
Registered: 2004-04-26
Posts: 179

Re: Let's help move Arch up the ranking at Distrowatch!

Thanks for the compliment. I am seriously going to try to really become part of some sort of team on Arch Linux, and it'll most likely be with Documentation, as I'm not too skilled with actual coding, but I can write up things to help people to run everything. smile


"Technically, you would only need one time traveler convention."

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