WMII questions

eyolf · 2008-08-15 12:34:12

I've been playing around with wmii, and I really like it, but I've come to the point of the "why doesn't it do this?" questions. Since the arch forum seems to be full of tiling wm advocates, I thought I'd ask here first:

1. Is it possible to maximize a window temporarily? I know of the max layout, but that only affects the current column. Ideally, I'd work in a two-column layout with the ability to quickly let one client fill the whole screen. In Awesome terms: toggle between tiled and max layout. I haven't found a way to do that in wmii. The closest I come is to have the main window alone in the left column, then move it to the right with ctrl-modkey-l and max that column, but that's not ideal.

2. Can I resize the columns horizontally without using the mouse? Cf. Awesome Mod-l/Mod-h. Very annoying, but there doesn't seem to be a default key binding for it.

3. I'm confused about the function of the floating vs. managed layers. If I send a client to the floating layer (mod-ctl-space), and toggle the view between managed and floating (mod-space), the managed layer has focus, but floating window is still up front, so I can't see the managed clients. Is that intended behaviour, or is there something wrong with my setup?

4. When I switch between layouts, my terminals are frequently messed up: going from default to max layout, vim only uses half the space. If I change between stacked and max, it will again use the full column. Is this related to wmii, or is it my terminal settings?

5. I'd like new clients to be added to the right and not below the existing window, at least when adding the second client (for the third, it's fine to get it below in the current column). Awesome works that way -- can WMII too?

After this, one might ask: well then, why don't you use awesome if you think it's so awesome? Well, I really enjoy the dynamic tagging system in wmii, and I haven't found a way to make awesome behave similarly. I've played around with eminent, but it doesn't seem to do what wmii does. Or?

Mr.Elendig · 2008-08-15 17:34:18

1. mod(4)-f
2. don't know.
3. a floating window will always be on top by default
4. an ncurses/terminal problem. Forcing a redraw usualy solves it
5. think it can be done for stuff that you start trough keybindings. Or you could try to set a catch-all window rule that moves the new client to the right
6. No idea about awesome/eminent, but you can make xmonad behave anyway you want, but it might take a tiny bit of haskell knowledge.

eyolf · 2008-08-15 17:52:10

Mr.Elendig wrote:

1. mod(4)-f
2. don't know.
3. a floating window will always be on top by default
4. an ncurses/terminal problem. Forcing a redraw usualy solves it
5. think it can be done for stuff that you start trough keybindings. Or you could try to set a catch-all window rule that moves the new client to the right
6. No idea about awesome/eminent, but you can make xmonad behave anyway you want, but it might take a tiny bit of haskell knowledge.

1. Doesn't work for me. Hm. I should probably try to go back to a clean config file -- I may have messed something up along the way...
3. OK. Then the toggling between floating and managed layers seems a bit illogical. Why would one want to give focus to a layer one can't really see?
4. OK. Can that be scripted somehow, so that it does that automatically?
6. xmonad looks very appealing -- much more friendly (such as the configs for using xmonad with KDE/Gnome -- excellent!), and superbly documented too. On a side note, it seems like an ideal tool for teaching programming to kids. Making Hello World programs isn't very fun in the long run, but a tool where one can make one's own widgets etc. and see behind the scenes of how programs work -- that's got to be useful.

Mr.Elendig · 2008-08-15 18:13:01

1. might be mod(4)-m. Don't remember 100% is I did bind it to f myself or if that was the default.

Garns · 2008-08-15 18:15:20

eyolf wrote:

Mr.Elendig wrote:
3. a floating window will always be on top by default
3. OK. Then the toggling between floating and managed layers seems a bit illogical. Why would one want to give focus to a layer one can't really see?
6. xmonad looks very appealing -- much more friendly (such as the configs for using xmonad with KDE/Gnome -- excellent!), and superbly documented too. On a side note, it seems like an ideal tool for teaching programming to kids. Making Hello World programs isn't very fun in the long run, but a tool where one can make one's own widgets etc. and see behind the scenes of how programs work -- that's got to be useful.

It might be useful if the floating window is rather small.

You only have to find someone willing and able to teach Haskell

N30N · 2008-08-15 18:35:48

eyolf wrote:

1. Is it possible to maximize a window temporarily?

wmiir xwrite /client/sel/ctl "Fullscreen toggle"

Or alternatively add another tag a switch to that view.

wmiir xwrite /client/sel/tags "+foobar"
wmiir xwrite /ctl "view foobar"

eyolf wrote:

2. Can I resize the columns horizontally without using the mouse?

Yes you can but currently only with the hg version.

3.

eyolf wrote:

the managed layer has focus, but floating window is still up front, so I can't see the managed clients. Is that intended behaviour

Yep.

eyolf wrote:

4. When I switch between layouts, my terminals are frequently messed up: going from default to max layout, vim only uses half the space.

I don't get that. What terminal are you using?

eyolf wrote:

5. I'd like new clients to be added to the right and not below the existing window, at least when adding the second client (for the third, it's fine to get it below in the current column). Awesome works that way -- can WMII too?

Indeed, it could if you too, what language you are configuring wmii with?

Last edited by N30N (2008-08-15 18:42:41)

Mimi · 2008-08-17 18:08:52

N30N wrote:

eyolf wrote:
4. When I switch between layouts, my terminals are frequently messed up: going from default to max layout, vim only uses half the space.
I don't get that. What terminal are you using?

A picture says more than a thousand words:

tiled

maximized

Dwm and xterm.
This doesn't happen all the time.

Last edited by Mimi (2008-08-17 20:00:15)

eyolf · 2008-08-17 19:59:30

Yes, that's how my terms behave too. xterm and urxvt.

I've tried to install the latest wmii-hg, but it doesn't seem to play well with ruby-wmii. The vanilla install works fine, but if I install ruby-wmii, I get to the welcome screen, and there is a status bar down there, but there's nothing in it, and no keys work. Nothing works, acutally. Has anyone else experienced this?

I seem to remember from a previous attempt that the setting for the default terminal had to be changed in the wmii-config file, but this time that had no effect.

BTW, I found out that Mod-f not working must have been a issue with my own config -- in the vanilla install, it works as expected. Sorry.

Mimi · 2008-08-18 01:30:12

Same issue with fluxbox, btw.
Debian:
http://groups.google.com/group/linux.de … 8?lnk=raot
Gentoo:
http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=233836

TjPhysicist · 2008-08-18 02:05:58

eyolf wrote:

4. When I switch between layouts, my terminals are frequently messed up: going from default to max layout, vim only uses half the space.

Yea i use gnome-terminal with wmii as well as dwm (now). I get that too. i jst refresh it somehow. 'clear' command. Or restart top or ncmpc or whatever.

-Tj

jbromley · 2008-08-18 04:38:37

eyolf wrote:

I've tried to install the latest wmii-hg, but it doesn't seem to play well with ruby-wmii. The vanilla install works fine, but if I install ruby-wmii, I get to the welcome screen, and there is a status bar down there, but there's nothing in it, and no keys work. Nothing works, acutally. Has anyone else experienced this?

I've tried wmii-hg with ruby-wmii and I've had the same problem. It seems that libixp has perhaps had some changes and the ruby-ixp code needs to be modified to match the changes in libixp. At one point I was using ruby-wmii and I planned to check this out, but since then I've been trying out xmonad. So far it's been pretty good. If I go back to wmii, I'll have to look at this problem (if the main developers haven't already done it at that point.)

eyolf · 2008-08-18 09:57:34

OK; thanks for the confirmation. It's a pain: I'm jumping back and forth between xmonad and wmii. I just love the tagging philosophy in wmii, and the idea of a virtual file system behind the scenes is appealing, even though I don't know enough about it to enjoy it properly, but the lack of a keyboard-based resize function is a strange omission in a tiling wm. Xmonad's appeal is more elusive -- it just seems to do things right. Apart, that is, from the tagging function, where I believe wmii's behaviour can be mimicked, but not without some serious tweaking.

eyolf · 2008-08-18 10:01:53

TjPhysicist wrote:

eyolf wrote:
4. When I switch between layouts, my terminals are frequently messed up: going from default to max layout, vim only uses half the space.
Yea i use gnome-terminal with wmii as well as dwm (now). I get that too. i jst refresh it somehow. 'clear' command. Or restart top or ncmpc or whatever.

-Tj

Another strange flaw in a system based on this precise function (tiling implies resizing), aimed at users who tend to use many terminals. I know it's a curses problem and not directly related to the wm, but it's strange.

Are there any terminals that behave better in this respect?

I should also say that using Screen adds another layer of confusion and messed-up layout.

pseup · 2008-08-18 10:26:48

eyolf wrote:

4. When I switch between layouts, my terminals are frequently messed up: going from default to max layout, vim only uses half the space. If I change between stacked and max, it will again use the full column. Is this related to wmii, or is it my terminal settings?

Are you using the latest kernel from core ( 2.6.26.2-1 )? Your screenshots look identical to an issue I had after I updated from 2.6.25.11-1. A couple of others in the #xmonad channel had experienced the same, and someone claimed it was a tty driver problem (not sure if this is correct or not). Reverting to 2.6.25.11-1 'resolved' the issue for now.

Last edited by pseup (2008-08-18 10:28:30)

eyolf · 2008-08-18 10:31:38

Yes, I am using the latest kernel. Will revert. Thanks.

Mimi · 2008-08-18 10:46:31

eyolf wrote:

I don't know enough about it to enjoy it properly, but the lack of a keyboard-based resize function is a strange omission in a tiling wm.

That's why I switched to dwm.

pseup wrote:

A couple of others in the #xmonad channel had experienced the same, and someone claimed it was a tty driver problem (not sure if this is correct or not). Reverting to 2.6.25.11-1 'resolved' the issue for now.

Thanks, that helped.

eyolf · 2008-08-18 10:55:25

Mimi wrote:

That's why I switched to dwm.

Phew... another one I have to try out, then... Isn't that the one where you have to recompile the whole package everytime you make a configuration change? Sounds like it must be hell to get it to suit your needs?

pseup wrote:

A couple of others in the #xmonad channel had experienced the same, and someone claimed it was a tty driver problem (not sure if this is correct or not). Reverting to 2.6.25.11-1 'resolved' the issue for now.

Seems I've been too busy with the -Sc flags recently... Does anyone have a 2.6.25 package lying around?

Last edited by eyolf (2008-08-18 11:23:39)

shining · 2008-08-18 11:23:31

eyolf wrote:

Mimi wrote:
That's why I switched to dwm.
Phew... another one I have to try out, then... Isn't that the one where you have to recompile the whole package everytime you make a configuration change? Sounds like it must be hell to get it to suit your needs?

The whole package?
You mean the single and tiny .c file?

And even though I never used that alias myself, it is still possible :
http://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php? … 67#p292267

Mimi · 2008-08-18 11:28:59

eyolf wrote:

Isn't that the one where you have to recompile the whole package everytime you make a configuration change?

Yes.
But it only takes a few seconds...

Seems I've been too busy with the -Sc flags recently... Does anyone have a 2.5.25 package lying around?

i686:
http://ftp.tu-chemnitz.de/pub/linux/sun … pkg.tar.gz

x86_64:
http://ftp.tu-chemnitz.de/pub/linux/sun … pkg.tar.gz

Last edited by Mimi (2008-08-18 11:31:03)

leo2501 · 2008-08-18 11:35:16

eyolf wrote:

Mimi wrote:
That's why I switched to dwm.
Phew... another one I have to try out, then... Isn't that the one where you have to recompile the whole package everytime you make a configuration change? Sounds like it must be hell to get it to suit your needs?

no it isn't, you get the PKGBUILD from abs (type "abs" as root, then copy/usr/var/abs/community/x11/dwm -> ~/<somedir>/dwm) and there you have the config.h file, when you understand it (take's little time) you edit a couple of settings and simple do a makepkg, or "makepkg -f" if you already did before the package, i use dwm for months right now and you never end to customize your wm, you change settings as you change your own needs

edit: aaa, and i forgot, i switched from wmii to dwm, i used wmii for several months earlyer, but i get used to the tag system in dwm, in dwm if i want a terminal above another, i use the gnu/screen split screen, but i dont use it anymore only dwm and screen

Last edited by leo2501 (2008-08-18 11:37:55)

Mimi · 2008-08-18 15:06:34

I'm using dwm-gottox with "deck" as default layout ("tile" seems to be optimized for widescreen displays).
http://s01.de/~gottox/index.cgi/proj_dwm

Intrepid · 2008-08-19 05:49:18

I'm brushing over WMII again and really the only major advantages WMII has over Awesome are the tags and more flexible resizing (e.g ALL windows are different sizes). The tagging can be a problem though, as it's not an EWMH-compliant design so no sticky windows for things like system trays. That is where Awesome shines.

If you don't do too many different tasks each day, you can come up with your own custom tag names in Awesome (very useful), but is that really a solution for you?

ric · 2008-10-10 04:57:51

An update to confirm problem 4.

I also see weird problems with terminal apps such as screen and emacs not resizing properly following xterm resize operations, such as layout changes. I had kernel 2.6.26 and downgraded to kernel26-2.6.25.11-1, which solved the problem for me.

The kernel issue seems to be related to the SIGWINCH issues described here:
http://lkml.org/lkml/2008/8/11/538

I also have a Fedora 9 box running 2.6.26.3-29, which doesn't exhibit the issue with an otherwise identical wmii/xterm/screen setup, so this issue may have been patched by the distro.

Mimi · 2008-10-10 23:49:14

It seems to be solved with kernel 2.6.27 (testing).

Dieter@be · 2008-12-29 16:34:42

I'ld like to add2 questions:
(disclaimer: It's my first day with wmii, I've used awesome3 for a week and before that it was all floating/stacking. I still need to learn more about wmii and the 9P fs)

7. What exactly is the advantage of the "9p filesystem" ? Suppose you have another tiling wm who has a simple config file (in ini format or something), you can modify it's behavior at runtime and it can reload it's config at runtime. What does the 9p filesystem leverage you to do that you cannot do with such other wm/config system? (I don't care about configuring over a network)

8. I'm a person who likes simplicity, and likes to have all configuration (preferably 1 dotfile per app, no binaries) under version control. Where does wmii store it's files, the data that is exposed through the 9p filesystem? Does wmii comply with my wishes for simple textual config files?

Arch Linux

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