Which lightweight WM to choose?

Tomi · 2008-09-06 16:23:48

First of all, I'm new to the forum. So hello everyone!

I'm considering switching my WM. At the moment, I'm using KWin 3, and like it very much ('made of Win'? sorry for the pun), but I'd welcome a more lightweight replacement. (I already found various replacements for Kicker and KDesktop, and I don't regret switching. KDesktop in particular takes a surprisingly long time to start.) I tried several other WMs, including IceWM, Openbox, Sawfish and Awesome, but none were as good as KWin. Here's a short list of features I want from a WM:

- EWMH compliance (for custom panel or pager apps)
- shading such that when the mouse hovers over a window, it temporarily un-shades
--- (or even better, a generic function that runs when a window gains/loses mouse)
--- (or even better, a generic function like that, implemented through EWMH and working in any EWMH-compliant WM)
- window & screen border snap zones (I think they're in IceWM, but not in Openbox)
- window-specific settings (e.g. remember the position of a window)
- Alt+dragLeftMB moves, Alt+dragRightMB resizes (maybe Openbox had this with Win)
- focus policy: click to focus, but not raise (click on titlebar to raise)
- [Shift+]Alt+Tab which isn't ugly (for example, Gtk and Qt aren't ugly, IceWM default theme is ugly)
- can turn off window decorations (called "undecorate" in openbox)
- display content in resizing & moving windows
- disallow resizing of maximized windows (I think IceWM default config didn't have this)
- keep above others (always on top), keep below others
- focus stealing prevention (nice, but optional)
- virtual screens aren't required
- composite effects aren't required

This list is roughly sorted so that the most important or unique (hard-to-find-in-other-WMs) features are near the top.

As I've written above, I searched and tried several other WMs, but didn't find anything better than (or as good as) KWin 3. Its only downsides are that it isn't the fastest starting WM in the world, and the shade-hover functionality doesn't always work. So, does anyone know about a small(er) WM that has all of the above features? Of course, they don't have to be built-in, they can be config options, patches or add-ons. It doesn't have to be anything mainstream, I like trying obscure software. I can even try a tiling WM, if it can float apps like MPlayer and GIMP.

Thank you for your time reading (and answering) this.

haxit · 2008-09-06 16:24:53

OpenBox in my opinion. I switched to it from gnome, and I do not regret it one bit.

thayer · 2008-09-06 17:37:39

I think you may need to code your own window manager

Seriously though, you won't likely find anything that has 99% of those features while still being "smaller". As you pointed out, Openbox doesn't do a couple of those top priorities, but I'd still recommend it as the closest candidate for everything else--and they welcome patches which add new features...as long as they're good

dunc · 2008-09-06 18:47:48

The default IceWM theme is ugly, but there are some nice ones around. Because it's pixmap-based, it can be completely altered, and you would hardly recognise some of the better ones.

However, I agree with Thayer and Haxit: I'd give Openbox another chance. It's very configurable (I'd forgotten how much until I tried a default install recently; it felt like a completely different WM to what I'm used to), and you should be able to get it pretty close to what you want.

It does do window and screen border snapping, by the way, although I can't recall off the top of my head exactly how they're configured. I've got them right here.

Edit: Scratch that. It's resistance I'm using. I think snapping is in there somewhere, though.

Last edited by dunc (2008-09-06 18:49:10)

moljac024 · 2008-09-06 18:58:11

Have you tried FVWM ?

Xyne · 2008-09-06 23:04:11

Tomi wrote:

- window & screen border snap zones (I think they're in IceWM, but not in Openbox)
- Alt+dragLeftMB moves, Alt+dragRightMB resizes (maybe Openbox had this with Win)

Openbox has snapzones and it has default move and resize on alt+leftMB+drag and alt+rightMB+drag, resp. You can fully customize that though, along with how windows behave when you hover over them, what they do when you click on borders, how you click on them, etc. I started using openbox maybe 2 weeks ago and I've been amazed at how much you can customize. I even have some bindings to let me quickly tile windows.

OB does everything on your list or can be configured to do it (e.g. unshade on hover, themes can change the shift+alt+tab dialogue). I highly recommend it.

Really though, just test them out and see what you like. Give yourself a few days with each one that you're interested in so you can customize it and get a feel for it.

Then choose OB.

Here are some links that might give you a better idea of what OB can do:
Openbox Actions
http://icculus.org/openbox/index.php/Help:Actions

Openbox Default Configuration
http://icculus.org/openbox/index.php/He … figuration

Openbox Bindings Overview
http://icculus.org/openbox/index.php/Help:Bindings

Comparison of 4 WMs
http://urukrama.wordpress.com/2008/04/2 … -managers/

richs-lxh · 2008-09-06 23:29:38

Fluxbox for me, so far, is very fast and customizable. I have transparent menus and terminals. There are a tonne of themes available.

But then, it's all about choice. I like clean and fast.

richs-lxh

sm4tik · 2008-09-07 00:20:02

moljac024 wrote:

Have you tried FVWM ?

+1

Tomi · 2008-09-07 08:09:25

Thank you for your replies, everyone!
FVWM is a choice I haven't considered before, so I'll look into it.

Xyne wrote:

Openbox has snapzones and it has default move and resize on alt+leftMB+drag and alt+rightMB+drag, resp. [...] I even have some bindings to let me quickly tile windows.
OB does everything on your list or can be configured to do it (e.g. unshade on hover, themes can change the shift+alt+tab dialogue). I highly recommend it.

I can't find the snapzones anywhere. The OB wiki didn't have any search results for either 'snap' nor 'snapzone', and Google only found this old changelog:

2.0.0:
* Add a window-snapping offset (edgeSnapOffset in the rc file).
* Window resistance snapping (specified with windowToWindowSnap and windowToEdgeSnap in the rc file).
* Window-to-window snapping (including corner snapping!).
1.2.3:
* snap windows to the slit as well as toolbar, and to the screen edges also. (Only when Full Max is off.)
* new options: snap windows to other windows, and snap windows to other windows' corners.

OB has resistance, yes, but that's not quite the same thing. Snap zones are sometimes described as 'magnetic'.

Also, the mouse bindings can be configured to do actions when I click on something or such, but I can't find any binding for hovering over something. Wiki search for 'hover' yielded no useful results. Of all the WMs I've tried (I haven't tried Fluxbox nor FVWM yet), Openbox looks the most promising, and if these details are resolved, I'll probably switch to it.

Xyne · 2008-09-07 08:40:24

Tomi wrote:

I can't find the snapzones anywhere. The OB wiki didn't have any search results for either 'snap' nor 'snapzone', and Google only found this old changelog:
2.0.0:
* Add a window-snapping offset (edgeSnapOffset in the rc file).
* Window resistance snapping (specified with windowToWindowSnap and windowToEdgeSnap in the rc file).
* Window-to-window snapping (including corner snapping!).
1.2.3:
* snap windows to the slit as well as toolbar, and to the screen edges also. (Only when Full Max is off.)
* new options: snap windows to other windows, and snap windows to other windows' corners.
OB has resistance, yes, but that's not quite the same thing. Snap zones are sometimes described as 'magnetic'.

Ah. Sorry, I had misunderstood that, but I think you can almost get the same functionality with the MoveToEdgeNorth, -South, -East, and -West actions. Those will move the window in the given direction until it hits another window or the edge of the screen. I have them bound to Win+Shift and mouse buttons (up,down, left,right, resp.). Not as good as a snapzone maybe, but that works from any distance and only when you want it to. You could also add that to a mouse action on the edge of the window (I wouldn't mind snapzones either tbh)

Tomi wrote:

Also, the mouse bindings can be configured to do actions when I click on something or such, but I can't find any binding for hovering over something. Wiki search for 'hover' yielded no useful results. Of all the WMs I've tried (I haven't tried Fluxbox nor FVWM yet), Openbox looks the most promising, and if these details are resolved, I'll probably switch to it.

Sorry again, I thought I had seen something about hovering in the mouse actions. You can set focus to follow the mouse and to raise windows on focus, but I didn't see anything about shading. I've only been using it for 2 weeks and haven't really dug that deep in the configuration though, so check with an OB guru before you give up on that.

*realizes that he probably sounds like an OB fanboy but is really only trying to be helpful*

Last edited by Xyne (2008-09-07 08:42:26)

.:B:. · 2008-09-07 11:15:29

An Openbox lover myself.

I'd say: try them out, try to set them up the way you want them to be, and see what gets closest to your ideal situation. Nothing ever does .

Misfit138 · 2008-09-07 12:45:41

Let me think..
OpenBox.
Dead simple, logical, intuitive. Basic, but not too basic.

The Avatar of Time · 2008-09-12 08:15:34

I have to recommend Fluxbox. However, unless it's been fixed in the last day or so, the new version is a bit buggy. I don't have any issues with the previous version though.

I haven't used all that many WM/DE. In fact Fluxbox, GNOME, and KDE (3 and 4) are all that I have tried. Every so often I decide to give one of them another shot. That lasts between 15 minutes to a day and a half and then I'll be right back to using Fluxbox. It seems that being simpler has the added bonus of having less things that can break.

I did see a highly customized ICEwm the other day that looked awesome. I really had to stare at the picture trying to figure out what it was. I had just decided that it must be one of the 'box's, most likely using iDesk as well, and very, very customized. Then I discovered "Hey, there's a caption here that says!"... Anyhow, it was ICEwm. Ever since then I've had the urge to try it.

It does seem that Openbox is a bit more popular than Fluxbox though. I don't really know anything about Openbox or what other features it has compared to Fluxbox.

Overall I think the best advice is to try as many different ones as you can. It's the only way to really know what you like.

***Edit:

Of course, there's always TWM...

Last edited by The Avatar of Time (2008-09-12 08:16:46)

Misfit138 · 2008-09-12 14:04:19

The Avatar of Time wrote:

It does seem that Openbox is a bit more popular than Fluxbox though. I don't really know anything about Openbox or what other features it has compared to Fluxbox.

Openbox is similar to Fluxbox, but it comes 'as-is'; completely barebones. By default, it manages your X window, and nothing more. When you start a default Openbox session, you can move an X cursor around with your mouse, but not much else. Panels, menus, icons and other features are all customized (added) manually.
Openbox is also nice for a reason you pointed out- it is minimal and remains very stable (and fast). It is difficult to recognize an Openbox desktop, because it is so completely customizable. As you use it more, you'll become more comfortable with the concept and process of 'building your own' environment. You'll get used to the panel you prefer, the fonts you like, perhaps a volume controller application, etc.
Setting up Openbox for the first time may be a bit daunting, but give it time, and you may come to embrace the freedom it offers.
It also has a great wiki page.

kclive18 · 2008-09-12 16:16:39

XFCE or OpenBox are both great lightweight WM's that I have used, but XFCE is a little heavier considering it is based on GTK+.

fflarex · 2008-09-12 16:25:30

Xfce is a DE, not a WM. Xfwm is its WM. I'm not sure how viable it would be to just use Xfwm though.

b9anders · 2008-09-12 21:48:27

Without double checking, I think the enlightenment window manager fulfils most if not all of your listed needs.

markc · 2008-09-13 07:50:29

Aside from KDE, is anyone aware of any Qt4 based window managers, or desktop systems?

moljac024 · 2008-09-13 10:00:52

markc wrote:

Aside from KDE, is anyone aware of any Qt4 based window managers, or desktop systems?

I think one is enough, thank you very much....

arunvragh · 2008-09-13 12:56:07

Openbox with lxde , ease of use and fast

cwjiof · 2008-09-13 13:25:45

arunvragh wrote:

Openbox with lxde , ease of use and fast

Me too.

markc · 2008-09-13 14:26:38

@moljac024: well I started hacking on qlwm but I was wondering if there was anything else. No, kde isn't enough, it's bloated but Qt is, IMHO, the best toolkit available and there are already quite a few Qt-only apps that would make for a reasonable desktop system if put together.

atordo · 2008-09-13 16:56:31

Tomi wrote:

(I already found various replacements for Kicker and KDesktop, and I don't regret switching. KDesktop in particular takes a surprisingly long time to start.)

Could you share which replacements are those?

Back in the day I used fvwm and blackbox, then switched to KDE till today. But after the last bearing of KDE I feel it may be time to part to lighter lands, and those replacements could be a starting point.

kensai · 2008-09-13 18:34:51

arunvragh wrote:

Openbox with lxde , ease of use and fast

+1, I'm so in love with lxde now, I ditched GNOME completely for it.

synorgy · 2008-09-13 22:15:42

Check out pekWM - while it's not FULLY EWMH compliant, it's extremely good in all of the other areas. It has both snap-to-window and snap-to-edge, MOD4+lmb movement, MOD4+rmb resize, window autoproperties (which automatically moves a window to a desktop or certain position, removes decorations etc), ability to undecorate windows, configurable mouse / window interaction (I THINK you can set up hover to toggle shade, but you might have some issues there).

The only thing that I'm not quite sure about is the focus policy - I know it has at least two options - click and sloppy. I don't know how easy it is to modify these (though it can't be TOO hard, because of the way the configs are set up)

Hope this helps.

Arch Linux

#1 2008-09-06 16:23:48

Which lightweight WM to choose?

#2 2008-09-06 16:24:53

Re: Which lightweight WM to choose?

#3 2008-09-06 17:37:39

Re: Which lightweight WM to choose?

#4 2008-09-06 18:47:48

Re: Which lightweight WM to choose?

#5 2008-09-06 18:58:11

Re: Which lightweight WM to choose?

#6 2008-09-06 23:04:11

Re: Which lightweight WM to choose?

#7 2008-09-06 23:29:38

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#8 2008-09-07 00:20:02

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#9 2008-09-07 08:09:25

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#10 2008-09-07 08:40:24

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#11 2008-09-07 11:15:29

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#12 2008-09-07 12:45:41

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#13 2008-09-12 08:15:34

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#14 2008-09-12 14:04:19

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#15 2008-09-12 16:16:39

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#16 2008-09-12 16:25:30

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#17 2008-09-12 21:48:27

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#18 2008-09-13 07:50:29

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#19 2008-09-13 10:00:52

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#20 2008-09-13 12:56:07

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#21 2008-09-13 13:25:45

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#24 2008-09-13 18:34:51

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