Choosing a new notebook. General linux compability and hardware rant..

pelle.k · 2008-09-25 15:11:08

I'm thinking of buying a new notebook. This is a rant, but i'll try to do it in sections, so you may adress my concerns more easily.

Nvidia/ATI/intel GPU;
Nvidia has been letting me down lately. They are not including support for some of their new technologies in their linux drivers (hybrid power, purevideo, proper opengl support etc.), and they are not releasing the hardware specs so that, say the novoau team (or the haiku team) can build a proper libre driver for us. The propreitary drivers do work pretty good though.
Also, i heard the g86 and g84 cores are "faulty", meaning that sooner or later they will fail (because of some chemical compound used in the manufacturing process). I need something i can do some gaming on, but the gf 9XXX series are still not that common in notebooks yet.
ATI is now doing what nvidia should be doing, but the drivers are still lacking as i understand it. Apart from being finicky to get working, it seems there are several unresolved issues still, such as the video flicker you get if you run compiz at the same time, etc etc.
I would gladly use an intel chip, but that would mean i have to get another computer to do some gaming on. That's not very economic. Maybe a x4500hd paired with a gf9600 gt in a "hybrid setup"? Oh, that's right; it's not supported in linux

So, what models have i been looking at? All these are penryn notebooks (runs pretty cool), most of them 17", and most of them supposedly run linux pretty well (esp the dell's):

Dell Studio 17;
1920x1200 CCFL screen. Everyone says the screen is awsome. It may be a little hard to read fine print text on it though. There's also a LED alternative, but this is only at 1440x900 resolution. Also, i heard LED screen can flicker (due to "Pulse Width Modulating" for lowering brightness), and i'm extraordinary sensetive to such effects. (yes, i do knwo CCFL screens do something similar, but it's not as obvious it seems). On the bright side, LED screens doesn't "die out" like CCFL screens do after a few years, and some say they produce a better spectrum of visible light that CCFL screens do.
The studio series has got ATI graphics though (i was just getting used to a composited desktop)

Dell Vostro 1710;
Pretty much the same comuter as the studio 17, but it has got a gf 8600 GS instead. I can have compiz-fusion, but the gf 8600 gs may fail at any day (there are warrantys extended for this, but it's an annoyance anyway). Also, no "purevideo" support, and only propreitary drivers (unless i use the crappy nv).

HP 8710b;
1680x1050 17" CCFL screen, wich is nice. It's also a buisness latop, so it's sturdy, and has got great support (and 3 years guarantee). Again, a nvidia "g86" GPU, so it may fail as well. I heard hp disabled "always run fan while on AC" option in BIOS though (so it's always on), and there seems to be some errors in the DSDT reported in ubuntus "launchpad" (fan problems), so i'm a bit hesitant. Why cant they compile a proper DSDT for even such an expensive notebook btw?

Fujitsu Siemens Amilo xi3650;
New montevina notebook, 18.4", 16:9 1920 x 1080 CCFL LCD. Unfortunately, this is a "hybrid power" laptop, meaning an onboard x4500HD GPU, and a GF 9600 GT discrete GPU. The idea is that you run the intel when conserving power, and the geforce when gaming, etc (hot switching, using some software).
Supposedly, it's only supported in vista (not even XP), and certainly not linux. An nvidia official said you may use whatever GPU you want in xorg though, but if i'm using the x4500hd, is the gf 9600 gt still consuming power, and if so, how much. Do you see my reasoning here? I dont need the support in linux (only windows), but can i shut the geforce down when using linux? (i'm not expecting an answer here, it's just annoying not to know).

Clevo M760T;
The only 15" notebook i'm considering (also montevina). I couldn't find a 17" notebook with a x4500hd GPU. 1440x900 CCFL LCD. The reasoning here is that this is going to be a linux only notebook. I will have to buy something cheap, only for windows and gaming. It's not very practical, nor economic. But i'll have a fine linux only notebook (with a screen size i'm not completely comfortable with though).
This notebook comes with ubuntu preinstalled though. That's pretty cool.

I'm not asking you for suggestions on what other notebook to buy, but rather some thoughts and ideas on my rather long rant here.

moljac024 · 2008-09-25 15:40:19

You can't do much gaming on those laptops either. A laptop isn't meant to be a gaming device anyway.
If I was you I would just go with an intel video card and not worry.
Also, why purchase a 17" laptop ? Aren't laptops meant to be portable computers ? At that size, portability is questionable...

As for gaming, upgrade your desktop PC a little bit and there you go

Last edited by moljac024 (2008-09-25 15:41:30)

pelle.k · 2008-09-25 18:08:40

Ah, but see i'm already an owner of a 15" notebook with a GF 8600 GS, and i can play all the games i'm interested in using this card, but there's no way a X4500HD could do that with acceptable frame rates. So, a radeon hd3650 (studio 17), NVIDIA Quadro NVS 320M (a disguised GF 8700 GT in the 8710p), or the GF 9600 GT (xi3650) can most certainly meet my demands.
The thing is, my current notebook isn't too linux friendly, and i just love 17" screens. I pack it up like dozen times a year to go somewhere, so 17" isn't really a problem. Yes, it's a desktop replacement.
One more reason for me wanting a notebook instead of a desktop, is that i may be moving abroad in the coming year, so just packing my notebook in a trunk and then leaving is quite comfortable.

As for portability, i'm buying a eee pc for that particular purpose.

Thanks for your input btw!

mrunion · 2008-09-26 04:31:29

I carry my HP DV9000 with nVidia 8600 card and 17" screen back and forth every day from work to home and set it up both places. Never had a failure, run Arch on this AND the other 2 HP laptops I have. The other two are DV8000 series. Never had a problem and hardware has always worked. The only issue with hardware I have is right now I can't use the latest iwl4965 driver because it's buggy.

cjpembo · 2008-09-26 16:48:18

I can say from first hand experience; avoid Lenovo. Batteries are horrible. They recalled a number of batteries last year; but not enough. So, if you buy Lenovo, put aside enough money for the extra battery; you're going to need it. My battery lasted under 6 months - and I never use it (plugged in 95% of the time). Perhaps they use a better battery in the thinkpads?

My wife's toshiba is going on three years; no battery problems. My HP laptop is 5 years and still holds a charge for 45 minutes. My dewalt cordless drill is going on 2 years: dropped off ladders onto concrete, discharged and recharded twice daily and still driving 3" inch drywall screws into lumber all day. Lenovo battery: 10 to 12 discharges and it's toast. Never Lenovo again for me. Just check out the Lenovo forums and you'll see for yourself.

There; that was my rant.

Chris

pelle.k · 2008-09-26 21:03:56

There; that was my rant.

Good rant! It felt good, didn't it?

cjpembo · 2008-09-27 22:31:34

Yes, the rant felt good.

But not as good as it felt to have Lenovo agree to replace the defective battery (yesterday) under a not-so-well publicized battery recall (burried here):

http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site. … MIGR-69671

Lenovo should have contacted me about the recall: that is precisely why you fill out the rigistration card. Instead, I got lucky and found out about the recall via a web forum. This recall has been in effect officially since April; they had 5 months to contact me.

I checked Lenovo's website today: it still fails to mention the recall for my machine. I'm sure they're making a small mint selling $150+ replacement batteries.

Chris

Arch Linux

#1 2008-09-25 15:11:08

Choosing a new notebook. General linux compability and hardware rant..

#2 2008-09-25 15:40:19

Re: Choosing a new notebook. General linux compability and hardware rant..

#3 2008-09-25 18:08:40

Re: Choosing a new notebook. General linux compability and hardware rant..

#4 2008-09-26 04:31:29

Re: Choosing a new notebook. General linux compability and hardware rant..

#5 2008-09-26 16:48:18

Re: Choosing a new notebook. General linux compability and hardware rant..

#6 2008-09-26 21:03:56

Re: Choosing a new notebook. General linux compability and hardware rant..

#7 2008-09-27 22:31:34

Re: Choosing a new notebook. General linux compability and hardware rant..

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