How are rolling updates performed?

qualiaoftao · 2008-10-20 21:17:53

I am currently a Gentoo user and have a reasonable understanding of how it works.

It is my understanding that Arch Linux is also a "rolling update" distribution. One of the ways Gentoo deals with the issues that arise with updating is to "slot" packages. basically meaning it has the ability to install multiple versions of a package. For instance one can install multiple versions of gcc and switch between them.

What I am wondering is how Arch accomplishes upgrades to significant packages. For example, if there is an update to gcc but one has libffi (built separately on Gentoo) installed, how would the update process proceed? Does Arch determine which packages depend on gcc and and install updated versions? For an extreme example, what happens when glibc is updated?

I am trying to get a "feel" for Arch... more than reading a manual, I would like to hear what it is like to actually drive it.

lucke · 2008-10-20 21:29:34

When a lot of packages have to be rebuilt they're just being queued up in the testing repo until all affected packages have been rebuilt and all pertinent bugs have been ironed out, then moved to the core/extra repos en masse.

Last edited by lucke (2008-10-20 21:30:56)

Zariel · 2008-10-20 21:51:23

i personally use pacman -Syu

But ive never had the need to run multiple versions of packages

qualiaoftao · 2008-10-20 22:11:46

As for the need to run multiple packages... have you ever wanted to try the new version of a package but could not, or would not want to risk upgrading? For example, maybe you have been using PHP 4 for years and want to try version 5. You also have various development tools for version 4... how do you test version PHP 5 of and the new development tools? If after testing PHP 5 you find it too buggy, you can then remove version 5 with no harm to your version 4... you can even continue to develop with 4 while testing 5.

New version of gcc is another example. When major upgrades occur to gcc, it is not always smooth... at least not with compiling your entire system as with Gentoo. There are times with it can be very powerful to run multiple versions... especially if you only have one PC, like me.

molom · 2008-10-20 22:16:50

Multiple packages? Isn't that like GoboLinux? Never knew Gentoo could do that, doesn't dependencies have problems with multiple packages?

qualiaoftao · 2008-10-20 22:16:56

lucke: Would only glibc be updated and the other packages simply recompiled against the new glibc? Or would the other packages also be updated to new versions at the same time? What I am wondering is how much of the system is updated when one package is updated, even an important one like glibc. I do not like having to fix many package configurations at one time due to upgrades. I really dislike updating/upgrading RHEL. There are always many packages either broken or replaced with different software when switching from one major release to another.

qualiaoftao · 2008-10-20 22:27:20

molom wrote:

Multiple packages? Isn't that like GoboLinux? Never knew Gentoo could do that, doesn't dependencies have problems with multiple packages?

Gentoo has what it calls "slots". Sloted software allows you to install multiple versions of a package. The dependency issues are bypassed if you can keep multiple versions of the package that other software depends. For example, if software xyz depends on abc-2.0 and software tuv depends on abc-1.5, you can have both abc-2.0 and abc-1.5 installed... you can then run both xyz and tuv.

lucke · 2008-10-21 14:16:11

Packages are updated to newer versions all the time (Arch tries to stay as bleeding edge as possible). If there's some newer version of a library (like openssl; glibc/gcc/binutils get updated together, but that usually doesn't warrant the recompilation of any other package) other packages depending on it get queued up in testing, as said before.

Arch is kinda multislot too, in the repos there actually are 3 different gcc versions, 2 python versions, usual stuff like qt4 and qt3, gtk1 and gtk2.

Last edited by lucke (2008-10-21 14:17:07)

suolx · 2008-10-21 17:55:36

you can install your php or whatever to different location? For example default package prefixes to /usr so you install it to /opt ?

bender02 · 2008-10-21 18:40:40

suolx wrote:

you can install your php or whatever to different location? For example default package prefixes to /usr so you install it to /opt ?

Not really. I mean, there's a switch for pacman that can alter the 'root' directory, but I don't think that's what you want, since so installed package is not going to by "working".

Heller_Barde · 2008-10-21 22:58:11

to summarize the above discussion

What the OP meant (installing 2 versions of the same package (as in the same package name same) at the same time like in gentoo) is in fact not supported by our package manager. (the servers also always have only one version of the same package at any given time)

(there are of course always the possibilities of ABS or just installing it in your home folder and try it out and so on but that's clear i guess)

cheers
Barde

Last edited by Heller_Barde (2008-10-23 18:35:47)

qualiaoftao · 2008-10-22 03:36:34

Thanks for all of the replies. I think I will have to give Arch a try... my geekness is begging to try something new. Winter is coming, I should have more time to tinker. However, I think I will borrow a computer from work to try it. It just takes too long to rebuild a Gentoo system if I discover that I would prefer to stick with Gentoo.

On a related question, with Arch, do you compile the Linux kernel or is it also a binary package?

peart · 2008-10-22 03:44:50

It's a binary package, but like all the others, it's easy to rebuild using ABS and makepkg.

lucke · 2008-10-22 04:58:35

Just tar your Gentoo root and keep it somewhere safe, it's easier than getting another PC ;-)

denisfalqueto · 2008-10-22 15:26:53

qualiaoftao wrote:

On a related question, with Arch, do you compile the Linux kernel or is it also a binary package?

When you install Arch, you will see that there is a binary kernel in the install cd. It will be used as your first kernel. After that, you can decide if you want to compile your own or use the default binary from the repositories. For the majority of users, the default one is enough, but if you have some special necessity, you can use the Arch Build System to build your own very easily. In fact, this applies to any other package of the system.

See: http://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/ABS

Last edited by denisfalqueto (2008-10-22 15:27:36)

denisfalqueto · 2008-10-22 15:29:14

Heller_Barde wrote:

to summarize the above discussion
What the OP meant ( installing 2 versions of the same package (as in the same package name same) at the same time like in gentoo is in fact not supported by our package manager. (the servers also always have only one version of the same package at any given time)
(there are of course always the possibilities of ABS or just installing it in your home folder and try it out and so on but that's clear i guess)
cheers
Barde

<joke>
Hmm, you program in Lisp, don't you?
</joke>

pauldonnelly · 2008-10-22 16:38:12

denisfalqueto wrote:

Heller_Barde wrote:
to summarize the above discussion
What the OP meant ( installing 2 versions of the same package (as in the same package name same) at the same time like in gentoo is in fact not supported by our package manager. (the servers also always have only one version of the same package at any given time)
(there are of course always the possibilities of ABS or just installing it in your home folder and try it out and so on but that's clear i guess)
cheers
Barde
<joke>
Hmm, you program in Lisp, don't you?
</joke>

I program in Lisp... and I don't get it. ?:|?

Arkane · 2008-10-22 16:39:03

Lispers don't mismatch their parentheses.

pauldonnelly · 2008-10-23 03:33:40

Arkane wrote:

Lispers don't mismatch their parentheses.

I see what you mean. And by this point I think we need

))

Last edited by pauldonnelly (2008-10-24 05:04:03)

denisfalqueto · 2008-10-23 12:46:40

pauldonnelly wrote:

I program in Lisp... and I don't get it. ?:|?

I was just kidding with the quantity of parenthesis you used. In fact, some are unbalanced, but that was not my point.

Heller_Barde · 2008-10-23 18:38:21

wasn't him, was me and i only forgot one fixed it now. no, i don't program in lisp. would be interesting to learn though

cheers Barde

PS: I like parentheses, they enable me to cascade my (absurdly freeforming) thoughts into sentences (even in several levels )

Arch Linux

#1 2008-10-20 21:17:53

How are rolling updates performed?

#2 2008-10-20 21:29:34

Re: How are rolling updates performed?

#3 2008-10-20 21:51:23

Re: How are rolling updates performed?

#4 2008-10-20 22:11:46

Re: How are rolling updates performed?

#5 2008-10-20 22:16:50

Re: How are rolling updates performed?

#6 2008-10-20 22:16:56

Re: How are rolling updates performed?

#7 2008-10-20 22:27:20

Re: How are rolling updates performed?

#8 2008-10-21 14:16:11

Re: How are rolling updates performed?

#9 2008-10-21 17:55:36

Re: How are rolling updates performed?

#10 2008-10-21 18:40:40

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#11 2008-10-21 22:58:11

Re: How are rolling updates performed?

#12 2008-10-22 03:36:34

Re: How are rolling updates performed?

#13 2008-10-22 03:44:50

Re: How are rolling updates performed?

#14 2008-10-22 04:58:35

Re: How are rolling updates performed?

#15 2008-10-22 15:26:53

Re: How are rolling updates performed?

#16 2008-10-22 15:29:14

Re: How are rolling updates performed?

#17 2008-10-22 16:38:12

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#18 2008-10-22 16:39:03

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#19 2008-10-23 03:33:40

Re: How are rolling updates performed?

#20 2008-10-23 12:46:40

Re: How are rolling updates performed?

#21 2008-10-23 18:38:21

Re: How are rolling updates performed?

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