So what's it like just using a standalone WM?

Redrazor39 · 2009-01-11 20:29:13

I've been having a lot of trouble choosing a good Desktop Environment and have been scared to just get a standalone WM because I'm not sure I would know how to use it. What's it like? What makes it different from full DEs? Can I run all of my apps like firefox, openoffice, etc.? Can I make them look really nice? I need some info about WMs.

Also, which to choose? Openbox, Fluxbox, Wmii? What???

Thanks,
Me

ShadowKyogre · 2009-01-11 20:36:37

Yes you can run your apps and make them look nice. It just depends which one you pick. I like E17 because it's purty by default.

Square · 2009-01-11 20:44:18

Take a look through the monthly screenshots thread.
Once you go to using only a WM, you may never go back to full blown (bloated) DE's.

This month's thread.
http://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=62104&p=1

(Suggestion: Openbox )

Ashren · 2009-01-11 20:49:16

The best way of knowing is to try them out yourself and might learn something on the way as well. I know I did on my way through blackbox, fluxbox, openbox, dwm, jwm, pekwm, and fvvm to name those I can remember. For the moment I am very content with Xmonad.

To answer some of your questions:
1. The difference a Desktop environment and a Window manager is that a WM manages windows and nothing else i.e. you'd have to find standalone apps for panels etc.
2. The *boxes are generally very userfriendly.
3. You can customize WM's to look very good indeed. Even (or especially depending on taste) Tiling WM's.
4. Firefox and Openoffice will run fine.
5. I's recommend Openbox or Fluxbox. They are pretty easy to set up and customize.

Read the wiki for more indepth information on each of the WM's you're asking about.

initbox · 2009-01-11 20:52:06

Well, if you don't use a full desktop environment, you can just use whatever apps you want. The apps are usually lightweight as well.

You can just use whatever you install, so yes, you can use Firefox and Open Office.

I'd recommend: Mirage for image viewing, epdfview for pdf's, pcmanfm as a filemanager, mpd + sonata for music playing, mplayer (with a frontend if you want to) as a video player...

And yeah, you can make them nice(r) just like a general desktop environment, but they are even better, because you can customize it far more.

Openbox is a nice start unless you want tiling.

Redrazor39 · 2009-01-11 20:59:27

so try openbox then? I've heard a lot about fluxbox; how does that compare? Any others I might be interested in?

Also, what's the best tiling WM? plenty of tiling WM users around here have told me there's no point to moving and resizing windows and thatbi should just go for a tiling one. Thoughts?

Redrazor39 · 2009-01-11 22:04:45

Ok now I want to know if I would really gain anything by choosing a standalone wm over lxde, seeing as the latter is essentially openbox with some more GUI goodies.

In my experiences, I'll have to reinstall to get lxde right or it's really messed up because I used to have xfce, kdemod, enlightenment, etc.

heleos · 2009-01-11 22:08:24

LXDE is a very slim DE. I basically consider it a WM with 1 or 2 tools. The big DE's (gnome, kde, xfce) has apps for almost everything (file managers, panels, settings, text editors, etc). LXDE has its own panel and a nice appearance tool, but it uses openbox as its window manager, pcmanfm as its file manager, etc.

Xyne · 2009-01-11 22:19:14

@Redrazor39
All the information you need can be found using a search engine and the wiki. If you really need people to tell you exactly what you should install on your computer and how to configure it, then perhaps you should consider using something that's more automatic. Don't take this the wrong way. I understand that it's natural to be a bit anxious before completely changing something and to want reassurance from others, but your posts are more requests for handholding than specific information.

Seriously, with Arch its easy to install something, test it, then remove it if you don't like it. You can have several DEs and WMs installed simultaneously... so just try what you're interested in and see what you like.

Last edited by Xyne (2009-01-11 22:22:40)

Redrazor39 · 2009-01-11 22:21:13

Awesome! I think that's just what I need, because I think I would have ended up installing a panel and the other tools myself anyway. LXDE seems to just simplify that.

So I don't like PCManFM; can I replace that with Thunar easily? What about the Desktop? Will Thunar manage the desktop somehow so I can drag and drop from the Desktop to a thunar window?

Also, does anyone know of a list of apps for basic tasks (web browsing, office, power management for laptops, and other stuff) that suit LXDE well?
How about themes? Do I just get GTK2 Themes from www.gnome-look.org?

weasel8 · 2009-01-11 22:25:49

I very much dislike DE's. Too much bloat I'll never use - I like to choose my favorite tools for only the jobs I need to do.

I use Openbox, with:
ObConf for theme preview/setting
Gtk-chtheme for GTK theme preview/setting
feh+cwallpaper for setting wallpaper
feh for image viewing
conky for system monitoring
tint2 for a panel
Roxterm for terminal
Firefox for web browsing
Terminal for file management
AbiWord for word processing
mpd+mpc keybinds for music
Asunder for CD ripping
Graveman for CD burning
AcidRip for DVD ripping
Mplayer for videos
Transmission for torrents
gtkPod for my iPod

And so on. It's basically choose the cream of the crop for the tasks at hand. Enjoy

litemotiv · 2009-01-11 22:35:53

Redrazor39 wrote:

So I don't like PCManFM; can I replace that with Thunar easily? What about the Desktop? Will Thunar manage the desktop somehow so I can drag and drop from the Desktop to a thunar window?

pcmanfm is light and pretty good, but yes, you can replace it with thunar easily if you want. the latter however doesn't manage the desktop (and icons) like pcmanfm does, so you would also need a separate desktop manager like xfdesktop.

Also, does anyone know of a list of apps for basic tasks (web browsing, office, power management for laptops, and other stuff) that suit LXDE well?
How about themes? Do I just get GTK2 Themes from www.gnome-look.org?

you can find a lot of useful info here: http://urukrama.wordpress.com/openbox-guide

Redrazor39 · 2009-01-11 22:40:27

Wow. I think I'll go with Openbox now and set it up just the way I want. I can't do that today because I have lots of stuff to do this week, but maybe next weekend I'll go for it. It is fast, right? Well, that's sort of a dumb question since LXDE is super-instant for me and that uses openbox.

Anyway, thanks for all your help. I looked at the wikipedia article for openbox and if I can get my desktop looking exactly like the screenshot then I'm golden.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Openbox_desktop.png

litemotiv · 2009-01-11 22:54:31

Redrazor39 wrote:

It is fast, right? Well, that's sort of a dumb question since LXDE is super-instant for me and that uses openbox.

yes as said LXDE is built around Openbox, with a few extra tools and a session manager. it's one of the fastest floating windowmanagers so you can't go wrong in that aspect

Anyway, thanks for all your help. I looked at the wikipedia article for openbox and if I can get my desktop looking exactly like the screenshot then I'm golden.

that's openbox with one of the default themes, tint2 (panel), xcompmgr (transparency/shadows) and conky (stats monitor)

Redrazor39 · 2009-01-11 22:58:21

Wow, I'm so glad I joined the Arch community! I'm definitely making a note of things like tint2 (I love thin, unobtrusive, yet effective panels) weasel8 also mentioned this.

I tried using conky on ubuntu, and it didn't work at all, but I was a total noob at linux and didn't know much about how to use documentation effectively, let alone try to figure it out! Now after seeing it so much i think I almost have to try it.

heleos · 2009-01-11 23:14:19

I believe the panel in the Wikipedia openbox screenshot is pypanel isn't it?

Redrazor39 · 2009-01-11 23:23:35

Well what's a thin, light panel that has a notification area (for wicd, etc.) and allows transparency? (and has plenty of useful things to add to it)

bslagowski · 2009-01-11 23:58:10

The screenshot certainly looks like pypanel. It meets all your criteria except maybe the "plenty of useful things to add to it." Not sure what you mean by that exactly. Some of the things you consider useful others will consider useless bloat. Pypanel can do: pager, tasks, launchers, clock, and tray area. I believe that's all though don't quote me on it.

Redrazor39 · 2009-01-12 00:00:06

I think that's plenty
now I just realized all the "plenty of stuff" is just useless garbage I never use. Maybe a system monitor like cpu and mem/swap, but can't conky do that?

bladdo · 2009-01-12 00:23:11

Redrazor39 wrote:

I think that's plenty
now I just realized all the "plenty of stuff" is just useless garbage I never use. Maybe a system monitor like cpu and mem/swap, but can't conky do that?

Yeah making conky show cpu/mem is very easy and common.

I suggest PekWM. If your looking for something fast and light nothing beats it. Also dynamic pipe menus in PekWM are nice for quick info. Not to mention, a properly configured PekWM setup looks amazing.

Take a look
http://bladdo.net/screenshots/july2008.png

Last edited by bladdo (2009-01-12 00:24:24)

Redrazor39 · 2009-01-12 00:28:00

Wow, that does look nice. I'll try Openbox first and if I get curious, I'll check out PekWM too.

bslagowski · 2009-01-12 01:39:31

Openbox can also do the pipe menu feature. Not sure if it's any more or less advanced than PekWM but it's neat either way. It can actually be a good way to system monitor stuff you mentioned before. I'm sure there are scripts out there, probably on the OB wiki. Otherwise yes, conky works great for that.

Another standalone window manager that works surprising well is compiz fusion. Sounds crazy, but it's surprisingly lightweight and fun. And depending on what features you use it's effective. I love the scale and ring switcher plugins. Actually, the scale plugin alone has kept me on Compiz Fusion. I've yet to find something that does the same thing. Skippy comes close but it's just not as ... complete. Anyways, worth considering for now or the future.

hk2717 · 2009-01-12 03:25:42

I don't think pekwm is as usable as openbox, but it has one thing: pixmap theming. If can live with a openbox theme, then just choose it, its usability is the best imo.

bladdo · 2009-01-13 04:22:09

hk2717 wrote:

I don't think pekwm is as usable as openbox, but it has one thing: pixmap theming. If can live with a openbox theme, then just choose it, its usability is the best imo.

No mean to offend, I'm just curious, why do you way that pekwm is not as usable? I've been a pekwm user for years and never have had a problem.

viga · 2009-01-13 04:49:07

I refuse to use WM. I like openbox and fluxbox. I am also starting to like more and more the CLI applications. abcde, etc.

You can do what ever you want to do from the terminal. You can also configure your keys to start your main aplications using alt f1, etc.

Openbox is pretty cool. There is lots of information here in this forum.

You will not miss your GNOME KDE

Arch Linux

#1 2009-01-11 20:29:13

So what's it like just using a standalone WM?

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