SATA/IDE Grub issues

Bahdom · 2009-03-13 00:15:06

Hi, I know this has been asked several times but none of the previous threads seemed to work for me. Here it goes:
I have a SATA harddrive with 3 partitions: Windows, Linux [ext3], and Files [this one has other extended partitions]. I also have an IDE disk which I use for backups. The SATA drive has first boot priority in the BIOS.

Arch recognizes IDE as sda and SATA as sdb. So I install Linux on sdb2.

Once I reach the grub config screen Linux is set to hd(1,1) which would seem to be correct, however this does not work. If I set it to hd(0,1) this doesn't work either [I thought it might since sdb becomes first priority disk on boot]. I've been leaving the windows section commented out.

The error i get is #17.

Thanks alot.

Last edited by Bahdom (2009-03-13 00:18:05)

Ranguvar · 2009-03-13 02:39:14

There are some Grub commands which can show you the drives available, etc. Specifically, 'geometry' and 'find' (I think, check Grub docs for more info).

I forget how, but you can get to them from inside Grub.

Bahdom · 2009-03-13 02:42:51

how would i get about actually entering command line? it pretty much goes straight to the error and then its dead [dies at 1.5]

Ranguvar · 2009-03-13 02:47:41

You boot the PC, you get to the Grub menu, right? There's a key to press to get to the Grub CLI, I forget what, but it says, or Google probably knows. I think you might need to press 'e' on a boot entry to edit it and then there's info at the bottom of the screen on getting to the Grub CLI.

Bahdom · 2009-03-13 02:52:13

i dont actually reach the grub menu. I get the message checking cd/dvd for boot disc, that ends and the grub script [?] starts, shows error 17 and ends before anything else is displayed. Unless I'm mistaken the menu appears until part 2, my grub fails at 1.5

Last edited by Bahdom (2009-03-13 02:52:45)

Ranguvar · 2009-03-13 03:08:35

Ah, sorry.

Okay, so Grub is starting, but it can't get to the stuff that has its config, etc (/boot).

How did you install Grub in the Arch installer? Did you install to the MBR of the drive that has Arch on it (a /dev/sdb or similar, not like /dev/sdb1) or did you (like /dev/sdb1) install to a partition header? Installing to the MBR of a disk is preferred. If you installed another Linux distro with Grub to the MBR before and are now installing Grub to a partition header, the MBR is being checked first and a different, old Grub is getting loaded. If you installed a Linux distro to another drive before, it could be that that drive is the one being booted by your PC, with a different, now-invalid Grub. Try using your PC's BIOS or boot menu to choose specifically the hard drive that has Arch on it to boot from. If that gets you to the Grub menu, we need to use dd to get rid of Grub on the other drive.

Last edited by Ranguvar (2009-03-13 03:09:46)

Bahdom · 2009-03-13 03:12:42

I installed it to /sdb.
No previous installations of any linux have taken place [i actually just did a full format].
The BIOS is currently set to have the SATA [the one with win/lin] drive with the highest boot priority.

reddyenumber4 · 2009-03-13 07:43:12

Perhaps run grub off the Arch CD

Once you have a grub prompt, try manually reinstalling it using the instructions found here:

http://www.linuxselfhelp.com/gnu/grub/h … .html#SEC9

Please post your menu.lst if possible, and let us know what grub> find /boot/grub/stage1 outputs, and what you decide to set as root and setup paths.

From what I can tell, Error 17 means that things aren't where grub expects them to be, so let's find out what it expects.

perbh · 2009-03-13 12:48:10

So - if you installed grub to sdb - it sure aint gonna work! Well - not quite true - but in that case your primary bootloader has to chain to the one on sdb.

There seems to be a lot of confusion about booting - so let us nail it down.
"The default bootloader is the one on the MBR of your _first_ disk." - and this will always be true.
If your bootloader is grub _and_ its installed on the MBR of your first disk - then you can boot virtually anything elkse - even if it is on sdb, but note that the stage-1 boot will be from (hd0) or sda.

reddyenumber4 · 2009-03-13 18:32:18

@perbh

If he doesn't have anything on sda, but his grub is loading from sdb right now (and failing), what's preventing it from reading the proper menu.lst file if his root location is specified correctly in the grub install?

Lone_Wolf · 2009-03-13 23:23:31

Grub error 17 has useful info.

In short bios/grub/linux sometimes have different ideas about which drive has what number.
Try changing the boot order.

example of confusion from my own experience :
I tried installing archlinux to a usb harddrive on a laptop.
Reboot after install failed with error 17.
After checking it became clear that the bios saw the cd/dvd as a usb device, and the selected bootdevice determined the bios numbering.

Booting from cd/dvd (as during install) : drive 0 cd/dvd , drive 1 usb drive, drive 2 internal drive
Booting from usb drive : drive 0 usb drive , drive 1 internal drive, drive 2 cd/dvd

Last edited by Lone_Wolf (2009-03-13 23:24:13)

Bahdom · 2009-03-14 00:43:39

reddyenumber4 wrote:

Please post your menu.lst if possible, and let us know what grub> find /boot/grub/stage1 outputs, and what you decide to set as root and setup paths.

Error 15: File not found

As a side note, Windows does seem to detect my SATA drive as a USB device [I keep getting the unmount device icon]. Also, the boot priority in the BIOS is: CD / USB-HDD / HDD

Geometry results:
(HD0):
drive 0x80: C/H/S = 1024/255/63, The number of sectors = 49023639, LBA
Partition num: 4, Filesystem type unknown, partition type 0x7

(HD1):
drive 0x81: C/H/S = 1024/16/63, The number of sectors = 66059280, LBA
Partition num: 0, Filesystem type unknown, partition type 0x7
Partition num: 1,
Error 18: Selected cylinder exceeds maximum supported by BIOS
Partition num: 2,
Error 18: Selected cylinder exceeds maximum supported by BIOS

So I'm guessing this problem is the BIOS can't reach the corresponding sectors? Or is it the USB deal?

Also, I don't really want to have anything on the IDE drive since I want to keep its use to pretty much nil [its not even really supposed to be connected but reconnecting for backups is too much of a hassle =p ]

Last edited by Bahdom (2009-03-14 00:51:41)

utak3r · 2009-03-14 16:02:26

Well, I had similar problem. I have 3 IDE disks and one SATA disk (main one). while I was in installer, fdisk -l said I have to install grub on sdd, but at boot time it's sdb! It's really strange... and same problem I had for first few reboots with my ethernet - I have 2 interfaces and it kept switching them, which is eth0 and which is eth1... now it stopped doing so, I don't know what were going on...

michaelks · 2009-03-14 17:14:02

grub will accept something like this :

# (0) Arch Linux
title Arch Linux
uuid 2a00b3b8-297a-46d0-b7f9-dde521ccc0ef
kernel /boot/vmlinuz26 root=/dev/disk/by-uuid/2a00b3b8-297a-46d0-b7f9-dde521ccc0ef ro
initrd /boot/kernel26.img

, so you can steer clear of the drive naming, that can get confusing especially if you have removable drives. Bear in mind though that the uuid changes whenever the partition file system is changed (e. g. a new install).

Bahdom · 2009-03-14 17:17:38

michaelks wrote:

grub will accept something like this :
Bear in mind though that the uuid changes whenever the partition file system is changed (e. g. a new install).

if the filesystem is the same for a new install will it still work?

i'll google the uuid stuff so I can try it

michaelks · 2009-03-14 17:45:14

No, what i meant was that everytime a partition is formatted (even with the same type of filesystem) the uuid changes. But as this happens rarely, uuid is the best way to identify a partition. 'blkid' will list all your partitions with their uuids, as well as 'ls -l /dev/disk/by-uuid' . You can also use this in /etc/fstab ,i do it because i have a removable drive for backup and names change whenever it is in the tray. A sample entry :
UUID=d49b61f9-10c6-4444-ae81-b3248f933394 /home ext3 defaults 0 1

Again, watch out when a partition has been formatted, /etc/fstab has to be updated as well as grub/menu.lst

Bahdom · 2009-03-14 18:17:07

k, thnx for the info

Bahdom · 2009-03-16 02:18:08

I reinstalled Arch, once installation was finished, but before I rebooted, I went to /mnt/etc/fstab and /mnt/boot/grub/menu.lst and edited everything to reflect the UUID changes. Still getting error 17.

Last edited by Bahdom (2009-03-16 02:19:27)

Bahdom · 2009-03-16 03:05:28

Decided to see what I could find out about the "Error 18: Selected cylinder exceeds maximum supported by BIOS" error. Turns out my BIOS has a setting for 'large hdds', after I changed this to ON from AUTO grub was able to properly start.

However, now I have a working Linux installation but the Windows one won't boot.
The menu.lst text for Windows is the default one [tried using UUID [id] like on the linux one but it didn't work].
If I use hd(0,0) it just prints out the windows entry from menu.lst and does nothing else. If I use the UUID it says its not a valid executable.
Any help on this?

Last edited by Bahdom (2009-03-16 04:48:57)

Bahdom · 2009-03-16 23:34:55

Turns out my Windows won't boot on 'large harddrive' mode.

So now I must find a way for Windows to start in LHDD mode or find a way so GRUB will without it.

michaelks · 2009-03-17 03:29:39

I could never make windows boot from a grub menu, i have it for when it's absolutely needed (veeeery rarely), but it sits on its own (old) ide disk and i boot into it by using the bios boot menu. To be able to install it i had to disable everything ahci from the controllers in the bios, or it wouldn't see the disk. Why don't you try running it in VirtualBox, it's very easy and you can do almost everything as on a normal install, and then you'll have none of these problems at all.

Arch Linux

#1 2009-03-13 00:15:06

SATA/IDE Grub issues

#2 2009-03-13 02:39:14

Re: SATA/IDE Grub issues

#3 2009-03-13 02:42:51

Re: SATA/IDE Grub issues

#4 2009-03-13 02:47:41

Re: SATA/IDE Grub issues

#5 2009-03-13 02:52:13

Re: SATA/IDE Grub issues

#6 2009-03-13 03:08:35

Re: SATA/IDE Grub issues

#7 2009-03-13 03:12:42

Re: SATA/IDE Grub issues

#8 2009-03-13 07:43:12

Re: SATA/IDE Grub issues

#9 2009-03-13 12:48:10

Re: SATA/IDE Grub issues

#10 2009-03-13 18:32:18

Re: SATA/IDE Grub issues

#11 2009-03-13 23:23:31

Re: SATA/IDE Grub issues

#12 2009-03-14 00:43:39

Re: SATA/IDE Grub issues

#13 2009-03-14 16:02:26

Re: SATA/IDE Grub issues

#14 2009-03-14 17:14:02

Re: SATA/IDE Grub issues

#15 2009-03-14 17:17:38

Re: SATA/IDE Grub issues

#16 2009-03-14 17:45:14

Re: SATA/IDE Grub issues

#17 2009-03-14 18:17:07

Re: SATA/IDE Grub issues

#18 2009-03-16 02:18:08

Re: SATA/IDE Grub issues

#19 2009-03-16 03:05:28

Re: SATA/IDE Grub issues

#20 2009-03-16 23:34:55

Re: SATA/IDE Grub issues

#21 2009-03-17 03:29:39

Re: SATA/IDE Grub issues

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