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#1 2009-04-03 20:23:27

Magnu5
Member
From: Finland
Registered: 2009-02-21
Posts: 19

woow

I just swapped my asus hd3450 card for a nvidia 6200, both AGP, and I can tell you this:
NVIDIA > ATi. Now I can play my UrbanTerror again, why the h*ll did I change them before??
/me is a a happy penguin

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#2 2009-04-04 01:39:03

Yaro
Member
Registered: 2009-04-03
Posts: 154

Re: woow

nVidia, plain and simple, has much better support for Linux than any other video chipset manufacturer I know. Don't let Phoronix's clear bias toward ATI/AMD fool you, ATI/AMD chipsets are horrible on Linux.

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#3 2009-04-04 07:51:29

mikesd
Member
From: Australia
Registered: 2008-02-01
Posts: 788
Website

Re: woow

Happy with nvidia on my desktop. Would prefer an open source driver but neither ati or nvidia are there yet with open source drivers. nvidias proprietary driver kicks ass compared to the propriety ati driver. I have ati in my laptop and wish it was nvidia as well.

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#4 2009-04-04 08:01:44

Yaro
Member
Registered: 2009-04-03
Posts: 154

Re: woow

mikesd wrote:

Happy with nvidia on my desktop. Would prefer an open source driver but neither ati or nvidia are there yet with open source drivers. nvidias proprietary driver kicks ass compared to the propriety ati driver. I have ati in my laptop and wish it was nvidia as well.

This is not really nVidia's fault. Those drivers and the nVidia cards use a lot of proprietary technologies nVidia's licensed from other companies. They can't rally open the drivers without getting in serious legal trouble with those they license the technology from.

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#5 2009-04-04 15:49:23

test1000
Member
Registered: 2005-04-03
Posts: 834

Re: woow

Isn't that exactly the same people said of ATI before they opened their API's? If ATI can do it, Nvidia can do it too.


KISS = "It can scarcely be denied that the supreme goal of all theory is to make the irreducible basic elements as simple and as few as possible without having to surrender the adequate representation of a single datum of experience." - Albert Einstein

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#6 2009-04-04 17:33:21

elmer_42
Member
From: /na/usa/ca
Registered: 2008-10-11
Posts: 427

Re: woow

The only thing that kills me about nVidia is their pricing. It seems to me that if you want bang for your buck, ATI is the way to go. I saw an HD4870 for about $155 (including a $15 mail-in rebate) on newegg the other day, which will easily beat out a more expensive GTX 260. Other than that, I sooo want a GTX 280.


[ lamy + pilot ] [ arch64 | wmii ] [ ati + amd ]

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#7 2009-04-04 20:45:24

Yaro
Member
Registered: 2009-04-03
Posts: 154

Re: woow

elmer_42 wrote:

The only thing that kills me about nVidia is their pricing. It seems to me that if you want bang for your buck, ATI is the way to go. I saw an HD4870 for about $155 (including a $15 mail-in rebate) on newegg the other day, which will easily beat out a more expensive GTX 260. Other than that, I sooo want a GTX 280.

Except with an ATI card, if it works crappily under Linux, I'm getting way more bang for my buck with the "more expensive" nVidia cards because those drivers actually work. Remember, we just had ATI Catalyst dropped right back into AUR with the maintaining TU disowning it. Meanwhile, the proprietary nVidia driver is in [extra]. Chances are when a package is in [extra] or [core] they are in damn good shape.

Right now, ATI support in Linux sucks, even with the open source ATI drivers.  I've read that the ATI drivers in Windows could be much better, though I don't know about that, since I never had an ATI card.

As for ATI opening their APIs... that really is news to me, and chances are they couldn't open the whole thing if they have licensed technology. I know the nVidia driver isn't closed because they want it to be.

But even if nVidia did keep it closed out of choice, I'm not going to start boycotting them and acting all Richard Stallman about it. The open source nv driver just will not do. And I make a policy of using proprietary software when and only when I feel it's the better choice. Right now, I think I only have two proprietary packages on my computer: Flash and the nVidia driver.

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#8 2009-04-04 21:01:28

elmer_42
Member
From: /na/usa/ca
Registered: 2008-10-11
Posts: 427

Re: woow

Yaro wrote:

Except with an ATI card, if it works crappily under Linux, I'm getting way more bang for my buck with the "more expensive" nVidia cards because those drivers actually work.

That's true, but I only need 2D in Linux, which the open source ATI drivers do just fine, because I use Windows for gaming, where the drivers work equally well for both brands.


[ lamy + pilot ] [ arch64 | wmii ] [ ati + amd ]

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#9 2009-04-04 21:03:08

Yaro
Member
Registered: 2009-04-03
Posts: 154

Re: woow

elmer_42 wrote:
Yaro wrote:

Except with an ATI card, if it works crappily under Linux, I'm getting way more bang for my buck with the "more expensive" nVidia cards because those drivers actually work.

That's true, but I only need 2D in Linux, which the open source ATI drivers do just fine, because I use Windows for gaming, where the drivers work equally well for both brands.

I use Windows for gaming, too. But I'm addicted to Compiz Fusion and I am trying to make a game.

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#10 2009-04-04 21:22:27

elmer_42
Member
From: /na/usa/ca
Registered: 2008-10-11
Posts: 427

Re: woow

Yaro wrote:

I'm addicted to Compiz Fusion and I am trying to make a game.

Then by all means don't get an ATI card. 3D sucks in open source drivers and 2D sucks in proprietary drivers.


[ lamy + pilot ] [ arch64 | wmii ] [ ati + amd ]

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#11 2009-04-04 21:42:05

Yaro
Member
Registered: 2009-04-03
Posts: 154

Re: woow

elmer_42 wrote:
Yaro wrote:

I'm addicted to Compiz Fusion and I am trying to make a game.

Then by all means don't get an ATI card. 3D sucks in open source drivers and 2D sucks in proprietary drivers.

I dunno. I don't see any issues with 2D in the nvidia driver.

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#12 2009-04-04 22:24:47

elmer_42
Member
From: /na/usa/ca
Registered: 2008-10-11
Posts: 427

Re: woow

I only meant the proprietary ATI drivers, sorry. >.<


[ lamy + pilot ] [ arch64 | wmii ] [ ati + amd ]

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#13 2009-04-04 22:33:23

Yaro
Member
Registered: 2009-04-03
Posts: 154

Re: woow

elmer_42 wrote:

I only meant the proprietary ATI drivers, sorry. >.<

That's alright. I just wanted to be sure there was no issue I need to worry about with nvidia. tongue

But, the proprietary ATI drivers have issues with both, which is part of why so many people don't use them as much. They're improving, thank the Programmer for ATI users' sake, but it's nowhere near ready.

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#14 2009-04-05 00:12:11

elmer_42
Member
From: /na/usa/ca
Registered: 2008-10-11
Posts: 427

Re: woow

Yaro wrote:

But, the proprietary ATI drivers have issues with both

I never noticed an issue with the 3D performance; I was able to max Nexuiz at about 50 FPS.


[ lamy + pilot ] [ arch64 | wmii ] [ ati + amd ]

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#15 2009-04-05 01:57:41

Yaro
Member
Registered: 2009-04-03
Posts: 154

Re: woow

elmer_42 wrote:
Yaro wrote:

But, the proprietary ATI drivers have issues with both

I never noticed an issue with the 3D performance; I was able to max Nexuiz at about 50 FPS.

It is generally a mixed reaction for most ATI users. On forums like LinuxQuestions and the like I'll see the occassional "WTF ATI's not doing 3D right" sort of posts. for me that doesn't show very good 3D support.

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#16 2009-04-05 02:11:20

mikesd
Member
From: Australia
Registered: 2008-02-01
Posts: 788
Website

Re: woow

Yaro wrote:
mikesd wrote:

Happy with nvidia on my desktop. Would prefer an open source driver but neither ati or nvidia are there yet with open source drivers. nvidias proprietary driver kicks ass compared to the propriety ati driver. I have ati in my laptop and wish it was nvidia as well.

This is not really nVidia's fault. Those drivers and the nVidia cards use a lot of proprietary technologies nVidia's licensed from other companies. They can't rally open the drivers without getting in serious legal trouble with those they license the technology from.

Yeah. I know it's tough for nVidia. I have considered the position they are in. They have lead the consumer 3D graphics market for a long time and I'm sure as well as the legal implications they would hate to have to indirectly divulge any of the hardware tricks they use in their cards/gpus through releasing code and / or hardware documentation.

I wonder what will happen when (if?) the opensource ati drivers mature to the point that they match the quality/performance of nVidia's proprietary driver. Is the desktop linux market small enough for nVidia to ignore or would nVidia be forced to open their driver or at least supply doccumentation as ATI has? It would be sad if that happened but if it did I would probably change over to ATI hardware and I have used nVidia since the TNT2. It was my second serious 3D card after a Voodoo 1!. Yes I am old.

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#17 2009-04-05 02:14:59

Yaro
Member
Registered: 2009-04-03
Posts: 154

Re: woow

mikesd wrote:
Yaro wrote:
mikesd wrote:

Happy with nvidia on my desktop. Would prefer an open source driver but neither ati or nvidia are there yet with open source drivers. nvidias proprietary driver kicks ass compared to the propriety ati driver. I have ati in my laptop and wish it was nvidia as well.

This is not really nVidia's fault. Those drivers and the nVidia cards use a lot of proprietary technologies nVidia's licensed from other companies. They can't rally open the drivers without getting in serious legal trouble with those they license the technology from.

Yeah. I know it's tough for nVidia. I have considered the position they are in. They have lead the consumer 3D graphics market for a long time and I'm sure as well as the legal implications they would hate to have to indirectly divulge any of the hardware tricks they use in their cards/gpus through releasing code and / or hardware documentation.

I wonder what will happen when (if?) the opensource ati drivers mature to the point that they match the quality/performance of nVidia's proprietary driver. Is the desktop linux market small enough for nVidia to ignore or would nVidia be forced to open their driver or at least supply doccumentation as ATI has? It would be sad if that happened but if it did I would probably change over to ATI hardware and I have used nVidia since the TNT2. It was my second serious 3D card after a Voodoo 1!. Yes I am old.

Well, it sucks and it rocks at the same time if ATI drivers were to be open and better than the proprietary drivers. Rocks in that we'd be that much closer to a fully free system that doesn't suck (Right now distros like gNewSense aren't very much up to par because they don't have non-free bits we actually come to depend on.).

Sucks though, since nVidia cards are pretty hot these days.

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