An extra cd ?

arch-fan · 2004-09-30 09:12:28

Hello there

As arch is growing and extra directory is over 1.6 gb, wouldn't be usefull an extra cd released as iso contaning (organised in directories) x.org, kde,gnome,openoffice packages etc.?

I know that all users normally update arch everyday, but this cd would be a great benefit for those who are in dial up and can't do heavy downloads all the times.

So people would download the base cd and this second one as we wait for the full arch release. This cd would be also a good preparation for the coming release.

this is just my suggestion.

paranoos · 2004-09-30 10:05:50

so... are you saying you'd buy this CD and have it shipped to your house?
because it's a lot worse to download an ISO with tonnes of packages you don't use, than to just occasionally upgrade.

if you want to buy CDs ....... i can burn 'em for you 8)

sarah31 · 2004-09-30 14:07:46

well the thing is that if you are on dial up and you try and download 1.6 GB worth of disc images the packages on them will be out of date about a year.

some things might work but in the end for any user it is more time saving to upgrade as often as you can (every few day to once a week) than to keep releasing extra isos.

ganlu · 2004-09-30 14:17:31

The advantage of Arch that overtakes other distroes I think comes from its simple and flexible package management, also its philosophy, absolutely not from number of packages. Think about number of Debian packages or SUSE dvd release, I dont' believe Arch will get such many packages for a not short time. Only one minmized base CD is best, you can alwas upgrade what you really need by connecting web and pacman -Syu, or makepkg for yourself.
However you can certainly burn a extra CD for yourself and anyone want it too, if you give one to me for backup and maintaning usage, I will really appreciate that

apeiro · 2004-09-30 21:37:06

We've had requests for Extra ISOs before. The limiting technical factor is pacman. He was designed with the assumption that all packages from all active repositories would be readily available, ie, he assumes he can get any package he needs at anytime. So when pacman orders a target list with respect to dependencies, it doesn't think that some packages may not be available immediately, ie, may be on another CD.

That wasn't a very good explanation. Let me try with an example.

Say Extra is split into only two CDs (for simplicity). The first CD contains all the KDE packages and the second contains a bunch of other stuff, some of which KDE depends on, like the musicbrainz package.

So, the user mounts the first CD and activates the CD repo in pacman.conf. Then s/he runs pacman -S kdemultimedia. Pacman notices that kdemultimedia needs the musicbrainz package, so it adds this to the target list and puts it before kdemultimedia.

Then pacman tries to retrieve all the packages. When it tries to get musicbrainz, it will fail, since the second CD is not mounted.

And herein lies the problem. Current gets around this since it can fit entirely on one CD.

You can work around this in different ways, but they're not very clean. You could copy all Extra packages (~3 CDs right now) to the hard drive first and sync from there, or you could play the dependency game and try to --upgrade/--add packages manually. This would be Not Fun (tm).

Noir · 2004-10-01 03:18:07

Since DVD drives are becoming more common how about a DVD ISO?

After all Arch Linux is a bleeding-edge distro, so I think it would not be strange for an AL user to have bleeding edge hardware also

paranoos · 2004-10-01 10:11:14

How about we accept that this is a bad idea, and put it to rest.
heh sorry, that was mean. but true.

dp · 2004-10-01 12:14:48

Noir wrote:

Since DVD drives are becoming more common how about a DVD ISO?
After all Arch Linux is a bleeding-edge distro, so I think it would not be strange for an AL user to have bleeding edge hardware also

dvd-burners are not yet that cheap (at least here)

arch-fan · 2004-10-02 15:58:35

Well, let me make a prediction.

archlinux soon will need a feature packman-cdrom add.

If the user base will grow over the years as it is increasing, archlinux will be having difficulties in bandwidth consuming issues.The solution will be more mirrors or why not the alternative of an Archlinux in 2 cd.

I am for a second cd and may be it is hard to understand why because someone should be in my position (dial up per hour).

Just my idea and maybe I am wrong.

dp · 2004-10-03 00:03:14

arch-fan wrote:

Well, let me make a prediction.
archlinux soon will need a feature packman-cdrom add.
If the user base will grow over the years as it is increasing, archlinux will be having difficulties in bandwidth consuming issues.The solution will be more mirrors or why not the alternative of an Archlinux in 2 cd.
I am for a second cd and may be it is hard to understand why because someone should be in my position (dial up per hour).
Just my idea and maybe I am wrong.

an extra cd is not really a solution (as people will then download the whole cd, instead of only the things they need - and this costs additional bandwidth)

an already implemented solution is the -Sp feature:

you have a system running and want to install something, but your connection is not that fast?: No, problem:

1) on this computer with slow connection run

pacman -Sy
pacman -Sp your-needed-pkg your-needed-pkg2 > the-file-with-the-list

and pacman will return you URL's to all needed pkgs for this pkg to install >> this list to a file and email this file to a place with a fast connection

2) there (the place with turbo-connection (e.g. university for me)) login and use

wget -ci the-file-with-the-list

this will download all needed files

3) burn them on a cd or somewhere else to be transported to your other computer with the slow connection

4) go to the computer that needs it, copy the files to the cache of pacman and then run

pacman -S your-needed-pkg your-needed-pkg2

this will install the pkg and all needed deps (as all of them _should_ be in the cache where pacman finds them)

you see, with this trick, you can burn your own dvd or cd with the pkgs needed and then to be installed without running a repo for them

arch-fan · 2004-10-03 14:25:37

wget -ci the-file-with-the-list

what can be the equivalent of that command in a windows computer ?

It kind of not fun downloading one by one the packages, that is why i ask it.

thanks

dp · 2004-10-03 17:57:16

arch-fan wrote:

wget -ci the-file-with-the-list
what can be the equivalent of that command in a windows computer ?
It kind of not fun downloading one by one the packages, that is why i ask it.
thanks

i use windows offline, so i don't know for sure, but there must be a wget for windows or similar thing

EDIT:
http://www.interlog.com/~tcharron/wgetwin.html

Abaddon · 2004-10-03 18:11:01

dp wrote:

Noir wrote:
Since DVD drives are becoming more common how about a DVD ISO?
After all Arch Linux is a bleeding-edge distro, so I think it would not be strange for an AL user to have bleeding edge hardware also
dvd-burners are not yet that cheap (at least here)

Uhm, I think they are... In Poland new dvdrw costs about 80 euro.

btw. Maybe someone could create a wiki page that will explain how to make iso (for cd od dvd, it doesn't matter) with an extra packages?

Arch Linux

#1 2004-09-30 09:12:28

An extra cd ?

#2 2004-09-30 10:05:50

Re: An extra cd ?

#3 2004-09-30 14:07:46

Re: An extra cd ?

#4 2004-09-30 14:17:31

Re: An extra cd ?

#5 2004-09-30 21:37:06

Re: An extra cd ?

#6 2004-10-01 03:18:07

Re: An extra cd ?

#7 2004-10-01 10:11:14

Re: An extra cd ?

#8 2004-10-01 12:14:48

Re: An extra cd ?

#9 2004-10-02 15:58:35

Re: An extra cd ?

#10 2004-10-03 00:03:14

Re: An extra cd ?

#11 2004-10-03 14:25:37

Re: An extra cd ?

#12 2004-10-03 17:57:16

Re: An extra cd ?

#13 2004-10-03 18:11:01

Re: An extra cd ?

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